Is it cheaper to send Bitcoin or Ethereum directly? - page 2.

LegendaryK

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Quote from: DaveF on November 06, 2022, 07:36:22 PM

I'll also say (again) that a large amount of the fees are paid on the BTC network are not needed since you can send for less but for some reason some people are paying a lot more then needed.
For the last 8 blocks a 1 sat/vB fee would get you in.
None of them were filled.
On the block that is being worked on now there are pending tx with a fee of 201 sat/vB

That is just throwing BTC away.

-Dave

The reason btc average transaction fees are currently over $1:
Odds are due to the times in the past where the bitcoin blockchain was congested and super slow transactions.
Exchange set a minimum inhouse transaction fee to avoid the headache of when btc failed to keep up with transactions.
Also you have some users that got use to setting higher fees to avoid the dreaded hours to days long wait that many btc senders experienced.
And while at this moment, their is plenty of block space in BTC (due to lack of adoption), the habits from the bloated btc remains.

Since BTC can bloat in a very short time, I don't blame those that are sticking to their old learned habits.
They rather play it safe than sorry, by attempting lowball fee transactions.

BTC is Proof of Waste after all.

IF BTC can get back to 400000 daily onchain transactions, then transaction fees over $50 will be right back.

DaveF

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I'll also say (again) that a large amount of the fees are paid on the BTC network are not needed since you can send for less but for some reason some people are paying a lot more then needed.
For the last 8 blocks a 1 sat/vB fee would get you in.
None of them were filled.
On the block that is being worked on now there are pending tx with a fee of 201 sat/vB

That is just throwing BTC away.

-Dave

LegendaryK

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Quote from: Stalker22 on November 06, 2022, 02:35:02 PM

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 11:29:59 AM

Even funnier, how anyone can think a coin that has a mere 4 people controlling it's transactions is decentralized. Cheesy

I'm afraid your information is inaccurate. As of right now, there are 15383 Bitcoin nodes online on the network.

How do you do it?
I mean you are wrong in everything you say, Cheesy

Even a broke clock would be right twice per day, but not you. Wink

4 mining pools control over 51% of the hashrate,
meaning the 4 mining pool operators only have to collude to 51% attack btc for the last few years.
So no matter the # of nodes, no matter the energy wasted,
all of btc security is dependent on those 4 people not colluding to crash btc.

Yogee

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on November 06, 2022, 02:55:45 PM

I think sending Ethereum from non-custodial wallet to another is way cheaper than Bitcoin, but it is not same with erc20 tokens

As of this writing,
High priority on Ethereum - $0.63 from etherscan
High Priority on Bitcoin - $0.15 from mempool.space

I expected Gas fees to go below $0.10 when they switched to POS but it seems Bitcoin's POW is still better in sending single transactions. It's still probably cheaper when you send in batch on both networks.

Guessti

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Quote from: stomachgrowls on November 06, 2022, 02:42:25 PM

Quote from: Guessti on November 05, 2022, 03:34:29 PM

Not counting the lightning network obviously, because anyone I guess could create a lightning network for any coin.

I already know the answer but please humor me because I'm talking to some other guys who are convinced the opposite of what I'm saying is true.

Ty.

You could make out some comparison in these charts.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee
https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_average_transaction_fee

Doesnt need for you to get scared nor believe on what others been saying considering you could really make some research on your own
or would totally experience for yourself.

Bitcoin fees nowadays is too cheap and almost cost nothing.Unless if there is high network clogged or traffic then you would
be expecting something high.

Those ethereum fees appear to include the cost to send NFTs, tokens, etc.

If you look at the cost of just sending ether, its 30-60 cents on average.

https://etherscan.io/gastracker

flareonbtc

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Quote from: Guessti on November 05, 2022, 04:42:41 PM

Quote from: flimo on November 05, 2022, 03:36:30 PM

Definitely Ethereum still but not for ERC20 tokens.

Eth gas fees were ($0.9187) and BTC gas fees were ($1.450) today. If you're comparing popularity as a payment method though, this just means BTC is still more widely used, hence more transaction fees. Payment processors like https://www.poof.io/ and https://cash.app/, Square, Coinbase... etc probably all have extremely high payment volume with Bitcoin.

Thanks.

Can anyone else agree or disagree?

Also I been sending Eth to myself a few times, it is costing 30-60 cents as this tracker states:

https://etherscan.io/gastracker

I think maybe the tracker your using includes NFTs or something, this tracker has always been more accurate and shows NFTs and other fees seperate.

People probably need to take into account there's fluctuations on the fee price when replying to each other here. Might have been 90c one day and 50c the next.

ETH gas fees are dependent on computational complexity, so it's a little harder to calculate "what is average" since it depends on the contract details. But yes, for normal sends, ETH is probably cheaper. On any ERC20/ERC721, transaction broadcast, an Ethereum-based transaction is higher than that of Bitcoin. You can have extremely low BTC gas fees when broadcasting a TSX but on average, people wouldn't send at the lowest possible sat/bytes, which is why the average is much higher.

Fivestar4everMVP

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I think sending Ethereum from non-custodial wallet to another is way cheaper than Bitcoin, but it is not same with erc20 tokens, Also, withdrawing from centralized exchanges cost much more than the normal network fee, because exchange will charge withdrawal fee as well as network fee put together, one way to check this is to search the tx id the exchange provided on the explorer, you will discover that the blockchain network fee is way lesser than the amount the exchange charged.
This is same for both Bitcoin and Ethereum, and several other coins as well.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: Guessti on November 05, 2022, 03:34:29 PM

Not counting the lightning network obviously, because anyone I guess could create a lightning network for any coin.

I already know the answer but please humor me because I'm talking to some other guys who are convinced the opposite of what I'm saying is true.

Ty.

You could make out some comparison in these charts.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee
https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_average_transaction_fee

Doesnt need for you to get scared nor believe on what others been saying considering you could really make some research on your own
or would totally experience for yourself.

Bitcoin fees nowadays is too cheap and almost cost nothing.Unless if there is high network clogged or traffic then you would
be expecting something high.

Stalker22

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Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 11:29:59 AM

bitinfocharts.com ethereum average fee calculations were incorrect which is why I did not use them.

But you decided to use bitinfocharts.com for Bitcoin transactions even though you admit that their calculation is incorrect? As I said, you are cherry-picking.

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 11:29:59 AM

Title of the post was cheaper ways to send.
Exchanges (offchain transfers) are the cheapest way to send any crypto, ignoring that would be just stupid. Kiss

Ignoring the fact that you are not actually sending anything using an exchange's internal function would be just stupid.

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 11:29:59 AM

Funny how btc cult members say decentralized like it is a perfectly good reason to be stupid and waste money.
Oh well, bitcoin is running on Proof of Waste.

You mean BitcoinTalk.org members? Well, welcome to the club! Cheesy

If you are new to bitcoin, try making a transaction every now and then and see what happens.

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 11:29:59 AM

Even funnier, how anyone can think a coin that has a mere 4 people controlling it's transactions is decentralized. Cheesy

I'm afraid your information is inaccurate. As of right now, there are 15383 Bitcoin nodes online on the network.
https://bitnodes.io/#reachable-bitcoin-nodes

LegendaryK

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Quote from: Stalker22 on November 06, 2022, 05:05:57 AM

You are cherry-picking charts and stats that fit into your flawed narrative.

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 12:50:05 AM

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html#3y
Current Average price is $1.33 per BTC transaction

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/ethereum-transactionfees.html#3y
~~Current Average price is $2.68 per Ethereum transaction~~

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 12:50:05 AM

* So at the moment Ethereum is cheaper to send by more than ½ btc transaction fee.*

~~There, I fixed it for you.~~

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 12:50:05 AM

Cheapest and Fastest way is using an Exchange

LOL! Using centralized services for transactions kind of defeats the whole concept of decentralized cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

Way to be wrong in everything you said. Wink

I choose Ycharts because their ethereum calculations were correct.
Nov 5th, total ethereum fees =>357.7 ether
Nov 5th , total transactions =>952067 transactions
Total Fees / Total Transactions = Average Daily Transactions fees
which came out to .000375 ethereum, round up to .0004 ethereum
.0004 ethereum converts to USD $0.65

bitinfocharts.com ethereum average fee calculations were incorrect which is why I did not use them.

Title of the post was cheaper ways to send.
Exchanges (offchain transfers) are the cheapest way to send any crypto, ignoring that would be just stupid. Kiss

Funny how btc cult members say decentralized like it is a perfectly good reason to be stupid and waste money.
Oh well, bitcoin is running on Proof of Waste.
Even funnier, how anyone can think a coin that has a mere 4 people controlling it's transactions is decentralized. Cheesy

coinerer

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Quote from: Guessti on November 05, 2022, 03:34:29 PM

Not counting the lightning network obviously, because anyone I guess could create a lightning network for any coin.

I already know the answer but please humor me because I'm talking to some other guys who are convinced the opposite of what I'm saying is true.

Ty.

According to current Gwei, Ethereum gas fee is very less you can transfer Ethereum costing only 40-45 cents and its transaction speed will be much faster than Bitcoin because if you want to transfer Bitcoin through Bitcoin network then it takes at least 10 to 15 minutes for its blok to be confirmed. and it will cut 1.5-$2 as transactions fees . so if you consider less transaction fees and less time to complete the transaction then Ethereum is still ahead of Bitcoin.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: Despairo on November 06, 2022, 03:10:52 AM

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 12:50:05 AM

Cheapest and Fastest way is using an Exchange
Using an Exchange to transact Offchain between Exchange Users
can be done with zero transaction fees for either BTC or Ethereum.
And by using the exchange you avoid locking fees of LN.

LOL

Exchange has a minimum amount to withdraw your coins and they're usually charge for fixed fees, no matter how much the real miner fees charged. This mean even though you can send Bitcoin with 1 sat/byte that will cost you only few cents, but the exchange can ask 50,000 satoshi to able withdraw your coins, 50,000 satoshi is 0.0005 BTC or $10 currently.

The best way to avoid large fees is avoid to use centralized exchange and closed source wallet e.g. Trustwallet, Atomic etc. Only use non custodial wallet, open source and use segwit address e.g. Electrum or Bluewallet.

Actually the person was talking about transfer which is completely done for free on some exchanges but we can't consider them as a transaction since we can only move between the exchange wallets not to our own, and withdrawal fee on exchange average over $10 so its definitely not a good choice.

It seems everyone is talking about the fees but we forgot to mention the transaction fee depends on the weight of the transaction not the amount we are transacting so OP consolidate your smaller inputs when mempool is empty and you can transact them for cheaper whenever you want to transfer to someone.

kryptqnick

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There used to be a time when Ethereum was cheaper, during the times when Bitcoin network was just overwhelmed by the amount of transactions and fees spiked to crazy numbers. I am not fully convinced that we won't see it happen again, but transaction fees have been very reasonable with Bitcoin for a while, and Ethereum had its own times of high fees as well. I completely agree with others that Bitcoin transaction fees and fees set up by exchanges should be considered separately. The withdrawal fees from platforms have nothing to do with transaction fees, and they don't mean that Bitcoin is more expensive to send than Ethereum. Overall, the fees are close enough and reasonable enough not to consider is a competition, IMO.

Gayong88

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It depends on the amount you're sending and the exchange rate at the moment. Usually, it's cheaper to send directly from an exchange, but you'll need an account and verify yourself (KYC), which is not necessary when using this method.

Stalker22

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You are cherry-picking charts and stats that fit into your flawed narrative.

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 12:50:05 AM

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html#3y
Current Average price is $1.33 per BTC transaction

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/ethereum-transactionfees.html#3y
Current Average price is $2.68 per Ethereum transaction

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 12:50:05 AM

* So at the moment ~~Ethereum~~ Bitcoin is cheaper to send by more than ½ ~~btc~~ ETH transaction fee.*

There, I fixed it for you.

Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 12:50:05 AM

Cheapest and Fastest way is using an Exchange

LOL! Using centralized services for transactions kind of defeats the whole concept of decentralized cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

examplens

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Quote from: bitmover on November 05, 2022, 05:08:52 PM

Quote from: Guessti on November 05, 2022, 04:42:41 PM

Quote from: flimo on November 05, 2022, 03:36:30 PM

Definitely Ethereum still but not for ERC20 tokens.

Eth gas fees were ($0.9187) and BTC gas fees were ($1.450) today.

Thanks.

Can anyone else agree or disagree?

This is false.

Bitcoin is cheaper.

As Stalker22 said , a transaction can now be confirmed within 10 minutes, one block, for $ 0.03

Ethereum is now less decentralized as before to become cheaper.. but it is still about 30x more expansive than btc, which more decentralized.

now that most erc20 tokens dead are in hibernation, it became potentially comparable. hence this kind of discussion and comparison.

Quote from: Guessti on November 05, 2022, 05:21:30 PM

Then why are all the sites showing Bitcoin costs $1-$3 to send. Cashapp for example hovers around $2 to get a 10 minute transaction, or $1 for a 2 hour transaction. Coinbase is a bit cheaper usually hovering around $1

Since when can you send BTC for 3 cents?

I regularly send it with a fee under $1 from my Trezor wallet. it could be less if I do not want an instant transaction.

EarnOnVictor

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Quote from: Guessti on November 05, 2022, 03:34:29 PM

Not counting the lightning network obviously, because anyone I guess could create a lightning network for any coin.

I already know the answer but please humor me because I'm talking to some other guys who are convinced the opposite of what I'm saying is true.

I don't think anyone sensible should scold you for a gentleman's question, after all, we are a community of education/information here and you might truly be a newbie in the world of cryptocurrency. Bitcoin transaction fees are way lower than that of Ethereum, to the extent that they might be more than 10 times lower in normal circumstances.

This is why I only like Ethereum for investment but can never use it for transactions where I have Bitcoin as an option.

Despairo

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Quote from: LegendaryK on November 06, 2022, 12:50:05 AM

Cheapest and Fastest way is using an Exchange
Using an Exchange to transact Offchain between Exchange Users
can be done with zero transaction fees for either BTC or Ethereum.
And by using the exchange you avoid locking fees of LN.

LOL

Exchange has a minimum amount to withdraw your coins and they're usually charge for fixed fees, no matter how much the real miner fees charged. This mean even though you can send Bitcoin with 1 sat/byte that will cost you only few cents, but the exchange can ask 50,000 satoshi to able withdraw your coins, 50,000 satoshi is 0.0005 BTC or $10 currently.

The best way to avoid large fees is avoid to use centralized exchange and closed source wallet e.g. Trustwallet, Atomic etc. Only use non custodial wallet, open source and use segwit address e.g. Electrum or Bluewallet.

LegendaryK

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Quote from: Guessti on November 05, 2022, 03:34:29 PM

Not counting the lightning network obviously, because anyone I guess could create a lightning network for any coin.

I already know the answer but please humor me because I'm talking to some other guys who are convinced the opposite of what I'm saying is true.

Ty.

* Average Fees are used below, because while some may lowball the transaction fee,
the majority are not willing to wait 3-48 hours for a lowball transaction to complete.
Some lowball offers are rejected wasting the 48 hours.
Also due to the variance in a Coin's Price verses the US $, waiting too long is not a real option when paying for something.*

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html#3y
Current Average price is $1.33 per BTC transaction

* For a single LN transaction*
You pay $1.33 once to lock and once to unlock, so $2.66 plus what the LN network charges which varies by hops.
LN actually cost more than a single bitcoin onchain transaction unless you are transacting more than 5 times with the same person.
FYI: LN is for banks not individuals.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_average_transaction_fee
Current Average price is $0.66 per Ethereum transaction
* So at the moment Ethereum is cheaper to send by more than ½ btc transaction fee.*

Prices of either are subject to change with increased transactions.
BTC will always go higher in transaction fees faster than ethereum due to the limited blocksize and the defective proof of waste design.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_transactions_per_day
Ethereum is making ~1 million transactions per day.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_transactions_per_day
Bitcoin pathetic Proof of Waste design is only ¼ the transaction volume of ethereum at <300000 per day.

Cheapest and Fastest way is using an Exchange
Using an Exchange to transact Offchain between Exchange Users
can be done with zero transaction fees for either BTC or Ethereum.
And by using the exchange you avoid locking fees of LN.

tbct_mt2

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Bitcoin has cheaper transaction fee than Ethereum.

However when you are discussing about transaction fee, you should know that you have no control about that if you are using a centralized service for your coin. When you make a withdrawal request, they will approve it (or disapprove it) and proceed it by broadcasting it to Bitcoin or Ethereum network. Centralized services charge very expensive withdrawal fee on users.

Fortunately, if you are using a non custodial wallet, you can control your coin inputs (for each transaction) and fee rate you want to broadcast that transaction.

Generally you can check average transaction fees on Bitcoin or Ethereum network with Blockchair.com's tool: https://blockchair.com/compare
Choosing Bitcoin, Ethereum and unchoosing other blockchains. You can get comparisons between Bitcoin and Ethereum network including their average transaction fees.

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