is it dangerous to not use tor with bitcoin? - page 2.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3528

Merit: 4945

Quote from: paulie_w on February 15, 2013, 06:00:18 AM

Quote from: mintymark on February 15, 2013, 05:40:47 AM

- SNIP -

how do paper wallets protect you if someone knows that you have them?

Well, the smart thing to do would be to not tell anyone that you have the paper wallets (or at least only tell those who you trust with access, such as a spouse).

If you are going to make it known that you have paper wallets (as mintymark has now done), the next step would be to not tell anyone how many paper wallets you have, how much bitcoin is stored on each, and where they are located.

paulie_w

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: mintymark on February 15, 2013, 05:40:47 AM

If you do not use paper wallets, really you are very foolish.

You back up your computer, of course. +1 for that.

But here's the thing, people can get to your computer. Its connected to the internet. There are already viruses that track network traffic, keylog, and yes deliberatly steal Bitcoin wallets.

Its already happened. Why should it not happen to you. So you are careful. Me too. Some of the people who have lost stuff in this way were careful too. Most not. It helps to be careful.

But the security of a carefully prepared paper wallet or many of them, is much more than a computer. Having worked for an AV firm, we used to say that nothing beats physical locks. Its very true. A good hacker can get in most places given time and motivation.

Anyone with any significant wallet should put it in paper wallets. Many of them. Thats my view.

how do paper wallets protect you if someone knows that you have them?

mintymark

sr. member

Activity: 286

Merit: 251

If you do not use paper wallets, really you are very foolish.

You back up your computer, of course. +1 for that.

But here's the thing, people can get to your computer. Its connected to the internet. There are already viruses that track network traffic, keylog, and yes deliberatly steal Bitcoin wallets.

Its already happened. Why should it not happen to you. So you are careful. Me too. Some of the people who have lost stuff in this way were careful too. Most not. It helps to be careful.

But the security of a carefully prepared paper wallet or many of them, is much more than a computer. Having worked for an AV firm, we used to say that nothing beats physical locks. Its very true. A good hacker can get in most places given time and motivation.

Anyone with any significant wallet should put it in paper wallets. Many of them. Thats my view.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3528

Merit: 4945

The general recommendation is to use a new bitcoin address for every transaction. If you do this, how are the thugs going to know what your bitcoin addresses are or how much bitcoin you have?

As a general rule, if you are telling people who you are and what your bitcoin addresses are, then Tor isn't going to help you. If you are not telling people who you are and what your bitcoin addresses are, then the only thing they will determine if you are not on Tor is whether or not you are running a Bitcoin client. They won't know your addresses or bitcoin balance.

More specifically, at the moment there is an exploit that can be leveraged against the current Bitcoin-Qt client that can determine if a bitcoin client is likely to have a particular private key. This needs to be addressed in the client itself in a future release. In the mean time if this is a concern you have multiple options:

Connect your bitcoin client to the bitcoin network via Tor
Run 2 bitcoin wallets. The first one has none of your addresses and connects to the bitcoin network, and the second has your addresses and connects ONLY to your first client.
Store most of you bitcoins offline (paper wallet, USB drive, other removable media, etc)

paulie_w

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: mintymark on February 15, 2013, 04:39:39 AM

Interesting idea.

I am not sure its very easy to find your actual address from an IP address, but given unfortunate circumstances, interception of email, etc it can certainly be done - after all you give your address each time you order something.

I think the thing that makes this unlikely is that the 'thugs' do not actually know where you store your bitcoins. If you are sensible, you will have moved most of them to paper wallets and so they may not even be 'at your address'.

also, with ipv6, doesn't it make them even more traceable-right-to-you?

paulie_w

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

i think almost no one will do this (paper wallets)

which means: if i know your ip address, i just come to your house with a gun and force you to transfer them into a wallet (or kidnap your kids, etc).

we should talk about this more seriously as the market cap increases. it seems to me that tor should almost be mandatory, as well as the clients encouraging you to diversify your wallets into smaller wallets (and making this process easier)

mintymark

sr. member

Activity: 286

Merit: 251

Interesting idea.

I am not sure its very easy to find your actual address from an IP address, but given unfortunate circumstances, interception of email, etc it can certainly be done - after all you give your address each time you order something.

I think the thing that makes this unlikely is that the 'thugs' do not actually know where you store your bitcoins. If you are sensible, you will have moved most of them to paper wallets and so they may not even be 'at your address'.

I did wonder if electronic thugs might be sent, but as I run Linux I worry less about this than I might otherwise. But worried about this and then moved most of my coins to a paper wallet.

Really, I think paper wallets are the answer. Just remember that there is no button to recover the password. (I mean private key.) if your house burns down and you loose them, they are lost!!

paulie_w

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

i was thinking:

if i have a large wallet, and i am using my normal ip address, doesn't that put me at risk of someone actually finding my physical location and sending thugs over to take it?

shouldn't the bitcoin devs be encouraging tor use?

Topic: is it dangerous to not use tor with bitcoin? - page 2. (Read 3133 times)