Is it legal to give bitcoins as a gift? - page 2.

edd

donator

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1002

Bitcoin will make for some very interesting cases, I'm sure. I know of at least one person who is selling a product and allowing customers to overpay in fiat. He then sends the overpaying customer a "refund" in BTC. I'm confident this practice won't fly if it ever comes under investigation but consider another, hypothetical situation:

Instead of bananas, I start selling custom printed t-shirts. Each shirt has a unique QR code printed on the front that, when scanned, reveals a private key to a funded BTC address. I can charge more than one would usually pay for a t-shirt because each one is unique, see.

If I wanted to really be sneaky, I could send two shirts to each customer. One has the QR code the buyer specified upon ordering (a random message, a URL, etc.) and the other has the private key QR code (How did that get in there? My cousin must have accidentally packed a personal shirt of mine! Darn my nepotistic hiring practices. I guess I'll never learn. Wink

).

MSantori

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Regulatory agencies (and the laws they enforce) in the United States will look past any formalistic attempts to evade the licensing requirements. Accepting a payment and calling it a "gift" will not remove the transaction from the BSA or any other relevant provision. The IRS rules on gift taxes are not relevant to this analysis, nor are the yearly exclusion limits.

TL;DR: Don't try to get cute with the regulations.

adpinbr

sr. member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 254

Quote from: RagnarDanneskjold on June 19, 2013, 06:55:05 AM

Quote from: adpinbr on June 19, 2013, 04:35:59 AM

Quote from: RagnarDanneskjold on June 19, 2013, 03:30:19 AM

There is a project I am marginally involved in addressing this very dilemma. It is called BitGift - a btc transmutation for jurisdictions regulating Bitcoin gift limits. I wish it were ready to share here, will try to remember to come back and update once [ANN] thread started

Please do remember to add it to this thread:)
So if I understand from your comment, it is legal, but the extent to which it is varies upon jurisdiction? I remember reading somewhere that under 250$ it is ok

To my knowledge, there are no US laws YET regulating free trade/gifting of bitcoins p2p as long as they stay bitcoins. As soon as you convert to dollars then it becomes taxable / booty for state looters. I believe $10k gift is the max deduction per person in the US.

Ok thanks

RagnarDanneskjold

full member

Activity: 144

Merit: 100

Quote from: adpinbr on June 19, 2013, 04:35:59 AM

Quote from: RagnarDanneskjold on June 19, 2013, 03:30:19 AM

There is a project I am marginally involved in addressing this very dilemma. It is called BitGift - a btc transmutation for jurisdictions regulating Bitcoin gift limits. I wish it were ready to share here, will try to remember to come back and update once [ANN] thread started

Please do remember to add it to this thread:)
So if I understand from your comment, it is legal, but the extent to which it is varies upon jurisdiction? I remember reading somewhere that under 250$ it is ok

To my knowledge, there are no US laws YET regulating free trade/gifting of bitcoins p2p as long as they stay bitcoins. As soon as you convert to dollars then it becomes taxable / booty for state looters. I believe $10k gift is the max deduction per person in the US.

adpinbr

sr. member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 254

Quote from: RagnarDanneskjold on June 19, 2013, 03:30:19 AM

There is a project I am marginally involved in addressing this very dilemma. It is called BitGift - a btc transmutation for jurisdictions regulating Bitcoin gift limits. I wish it were ready to share here, will try to remember to come back and update once [ANN] thread started

Please do remember to add it to this thread:)
So if I understand from your comment, it is legal, but the extent to which it is varies upon jurisdiction? I remember reading somewhere that under 250$ it is ok

RagnarDanneskjold

full member

Activity: 144

Merit: 100

There is a project I am marginally involved in addressing this very dilemma. It is called BitGift - a btc transmutation for jurisdictions regulating Bitcoin gift limits. I wish it were ready to share here, will try to remember to come back and update once [ANN] thread started

adpinbr

sr. member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 254

Quote from: Foxpup on June 19, 2013, 02:15:19 AM

Is it legal to give bitcoins as a gift? Yes.
Is it legal to falsely claim a transaction is a gift in order to avoid regulation and/or taxes (irrespective of whether bitcoins are involved)? No.

I hope that clears things up.

You wouldn't be avoiding taxes as you still pay the taxes on the 100 dollar banana.
You wouldn't be claiming the transaction as a gift. There was a sale here, I sold you a 100 dollar banana, you got the private and public keys on the peel

Foxpup

legendary

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Vile Vixen and Miss Bitcointalk 2021-2023

Is it legal to give bitcoins as a gift? Yes.
Is it legal to falsely claim a transaction is a gift in order to avoid regulation and/or taxes (irrespective of whether bitcoins are involved)? No.

I hope that clears things up.

zoinky

hero member

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Web Developer

If not... what a sad world we live in.

adpinbr

sr. member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 254

Thanks for taking the time to answer this question. Disclaimer I do not sprinkle my bananas in angel urine:)

adpinbr

sr. member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 254

If I sold you a banana for 100 dollars and gave you a gift of 99$ worth of bitcoin to sweeten the deal, would I be considered a currency trader and have to comply like everyone else?

Alternative scenario. My banana is super delicious and I charge 100 dollars, they go thru a super complex organic process, are sprinkled with golden flakes and watered with angels urine, this process justify's the 100$ price. On said banana peel the public and private keys to a bitcoin wallet containing 99$ worth of bitcoin are written down. Is that legal?

Topic: Is it legal to give bitcoins as a gift? - page 2. (Read 3846 times)