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Topic: Is it neccessary to 'test' new cold storage? Is there such thing as invalid key? - page 2. (Read 2037 times)

legendary
Activity: 4284
Merit: 1316
Don't use a brainwallet.  That's terrible.  Use a real wallet, armory or electrum offline.
Can you tell me what is bad about a brainwallet or a paper wallet assuming I am using it offline on tails and creating the key in a much more complicated way than their SHA256(passphrase).

using a brain wallet involves turning natural words into a code. before then encrypting it using standard bitcoin encryption protocols.

this brain wallet convertion method may change, or you may mis-spell the words (EG Some instead of some).

the best solution is to put a verified/clean bitcoin software onto a memory stick. then install onto a clean computer without the internet. and generate private keys from this.

DO NOT rely on brain wallets or wallets that your a keyphrase/seed to generate private keys. as i said before the conversion from phrases into a private key may change in the future.

ONLY store actual proper bitcoin private keys.
The idea here is that I do NOT want to maintain any hardware or anything physical to hold my bitcoins. I want to know that if there is a nuclear explosion or everything of mine is stolen/hacked/deleted/seized/etc, hardware is lost/stolen/fried, or i go into a coma for the next 5 years, I will still have my bitcoins. I want to have no worries at all. That is why I am going for a brain-wallet-type solution.

What is wrong with using sha256? If the hashing algorithm on brainwallet.org changes to something else, I can still use a sha256 script from somewhere else. It is a fairly common hashing algorithm and I dont have to rely on the tool on brainwallet.org.

Some don't like brain wallets for several reasons:
1. People are generally bad at picking a sufficiently random group of characters (words or whatever).
2. People forget the characters.
3. People forget the salt.
4. Sometimes the code changes or there are bugs (Safari 6.05, had a Javascript BIP38 bug).  (Save the current version somewhere as a backup, note the version so you can get it from github as a 2nd backup).

The animus toward brain wallets occurs because they are usually poor, see this for some discussion:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3345309
http://cryptocoinblog.com/brainwallets-and-why-you-shouldnt/

hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 502
Circa 2010
The idea here is that I do NOT want to maintain any hardware or anything physical to hold my bitcoins. I want to know that if there is a nuclear explosion or everything of mine is stolen/hacked/deleted/seized/etc, hardware is lost/stolen/fried, or i go into a coma for the next 5 years, I will still have my bitcoins. I want to have no worries at all. That is why I am going for a brain-wallet-type solution.

What is wrong with using sha256? If the hashing algorithm on brainwallet.org changes to something else, I can still use a sha256 script from somewhere else. It is a fairly common hashing algorithm and I dont have to rely on the tool on brainwallet.org.

I'm hoping that you're meaning to somehow memorise the private key right? If you're planning on using random words jumbled together to form the basis of it then I would highly recommend reconsidering. Unless you're willing to take the risk that your coins get stolen because you didn't have enough entropy or you used a line from a movie/poem/song then I would stay clear of a brain wallet.

Having a soft copy in the cloud (encrypted of course) and a hard copy in meatspace (preferably with BIP38) should more than suffice - your pretty much screwed if you get nuked or get knocked into a coma. There are bigger things to worry about in those scenarios than money (you'll either be dead or won't be able to use those coins till you wake up and still remember everything).
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Don't use a brainwallet.  That's terrible.  Use a real wallet, armory or electrum offline.
Can you tell me what is bad about a brainwallet or a paper wallet assuming I am using it offline on tails and creating the key in a much more complicated way than their SHA256(passphrase).

using a brain wallet involves turning natural words into a code. before then encrypting it using standard bitcoin encryption protocols.

this brain wallet convertion method may change, or you may mis-spell the words (EG Some instead of some).

the best solution is to put a verified/clean bitcoin software onto a memory stick. then install onto a clean computer without the internet. and generate private keys from this.

DO NOT rely on brain wallets or wallets that your a keyphrase/seed to generate private keys. as i said before the conversion from phrases into a private key may change in the future.

ONLY store actual proper bitcoin private keys.
The idea here is that I do NOT want to maintain any hardware or anything physical to hold my bitcoins. I want to know that if there is a nuclear explosion or everything of mine is stolen/hacked/deleted/seized/etc, hardware is lost/stolen/fried, or i go into a coma for the next 5 years, I will still have my bitcoins. I want to have no worries at all. That is why I am going for a brain-wallet-type solution.

What is wrong with using sha256? If the hashing algorithm on brainwallet.org changes to something else, I can still use a sha256 script from somewhere else. It is a fairly common hashing algorithm and I dont have to rely on the tool on brainwallet.org.
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
Don't use a brainwallet.  That's terrible.  Use a real wallet, armory or electrum offline.
Can you tell me what is bad about a brainwallet or a paper wallet assuming I am using it offline on tails and creating the key in a much more complicated way than their SHA256(passphrase).

using a brain wallet involves turning natural words into a code. before then encrypting it using standard bitcoin encryption protocols.

this brain wallet convertion method may change, or you may mis-spell the words (EG Some instead of some).

the best solution is to put a verified/clean bitcoin software onto a memory stick. then install onto a clean computer without the internet. and generate private keys from this.

DO NOT rely on brain wallets or wallets that your a keyphrase/seed to generate private keys. as i said before the conversion from phrases into a private key may change in the future.

ONLY store actual proper bitcoin private keys.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
and creating the key in a much more complicated way than their SHA256(passphrase).
can you eleborate?
passing through multiple hashes and using salts

for example my key could be

sha256('phrase1'+sha256('phrase2'+sha256('phrase3'))) or something more creative than that where portions of the hashes are removed.

I've made several cold storage keys (Well not nearly as many as Casascius!) and several of the ones I have made were duds. The way I test them (there's probably a better way) is to send a few microbitcoins to them and then look up the address on the blockchain. If you find the address on the blockchain it's usually good. If it doesn't show up then it's not.
Is there a chance that this could work but then when you go to send, sending would not work?
member
Activity: 89
Merit: 10
and creating the key in a much more complicated way than their SHA256(passphrase).
can you eleborate?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
I've made several cold storage keys (Well not nearly as many as Casascius!) and several of the ones I have made were duds. The way I test them (there's probably a better way) is to send a few microbitcoins to them and then look up the address on the blockchain. If you find the address on the blockchain it's usually good. If it doesn't show up then it's not.
member
Activity: 83
Merit: 10
of course it's neccessary. testing an off-line wallet shows does it work or not.
member
Activity: 115
Merit: 10
Cryptocurrencies is future
The method suggested by armory is to try the process a few times with a test wallet, then make a new wallet once you are comfortable with the process.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Don't use a brainwallet.  That's terrible.  Use a real wallet, armory or electrum offline.
Can you tell me what is bad about a brainwallet or a paper wallet assuming I am using it offline on tails and creating the key in a much more complicated way than their SHA256(passphrase).
cp1
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Stop using branwallets
Don't use a brainwallet.  That's terrible.  Use a real wallet, armory or electrum offline.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1001
Let the chips fall where they may.
"testing" an off-line wallet is like testing a match to see if it works or not.

Yes, the are 256bit numbers that are not valid keys (somebody can chime in with the exact range). As a user you don't really have to worry because the software handles it for you.

The method suggested by armory is to try the process a few times with a test wallet, then make a new wallet once you are comfortable with the process.

hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Sorry about the grammar in the title - it was due to space constraints.

Lately I have been creating secure cold storage cold storage wallets using offline key generation and either paper or brain to store the key. It is kind of a scary process because deep down I think there's a chance I might generate an invalid key or mess up somehow and then later I won't be able to retrieve the bitcoins I send to the address. So I go through the tedious process of testing the new address by going through all of the secure/offline methods to send a small amount of coins to and from the address, and verify that it works, before I start sending tons of coins there. Well, as this process is tedious and seems to add an unnecessary layer of risk, I was wondering if it is even necessary.

Is it at all possible to create an invalid private key? Of all 256-bit hex numbers, is each and every one a valid key? Also, is it possible for the algorithm that converts the private key into the public key to mess up somehow? If I wrote down any random 256 bit number, and use (offline) brainwallet to derive the public key, is that sufficient enough and can I start sending my coins to it right away without having to 'test' it first?
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