Topic: Is it worth hosting a lightning node? - page 2. (Read 926 times)

In theory, Lightning transactions can/might, not will, become slightly more expensive than altcoins because node operators are "staking" working capital in payment channels. I believe most of them should expect some returns by setting fees slightly higher, and the more of their capital they're staking, of course, the more they expect to see returns. No one will lock working capital in payment channels altruistically forever in my opinion.

Plus there's some level of specialization/work in balancing channels.

Yes i see your point. Thats the paradox of the situation i guess. Such low fees discourage people from hosting and expanding it

The lightning node is the fastest one out there and therefore if you are thinking of doing it you should actually consider these two things :

1. Fee is very less
2. Applications are actually more in day to day routine.

Even though the fee of the lightning network is very low , for example if a cafe runs and accepts Bitcoins , they would use the lightning network , so even if 100 customers come , you will maximum earn very little. It can be taken as a means to help Bitcoins and make them more acceptable to general public.

But then again Lightning network is not considered as safe as the Blockchain .


https://medium.com/suredbits/lightning-101-why-is-the-lightning-network-secure-cc1093e392d4
^ This actually contains all the information about the lightning network if you want to know .

Hahaha. OR if FBI agents get sore feet by kicking down thousands of doors one-by-one just to "kill" the Lightning  Network, https://1ml.com/statistics

Do FBI agents fly to other countries? The troll isn't good in disinformation/gaslighting.

Tell the troll, there are more than 5,000 nodes running in LN, the network is growing, channels are multiplying, network capacity is 976.61 coins total, more than during 2019, not one FBI agent kicking a door.

I believe section 230 of the communications decency act would protect any LN node operator. This however is not legal advice, and should not be relied upon as such.

LN node operators are also not selling coin to third parties by virtue of their operating a LN node.

There's no "I don't think", because there IS NO REASON that Lightning was designed for banks in mind. Laughable. The trolls believe they can gaslight everyone by simply repeating false statements.

I don't think there is evidence to support this statement.

Banks make money by accepting deposits, paying interest on said deposits at a rate less than the rate they lend out the deposits. As I have noted above, the amount LN node operators are earning is far less than deposit rates, and as such, a bank would not be profitable running a LN node.

LN node operators will likely benefit from economies of scale over the long run, and larger operators will likely earn more than smaller operators, however the barriers to entry will still be low.

I also don't think there is any basis for saying that becoming a LN node operator will require any kind of license. This will not be true as long as getting an on-chain transaction confirmed does not require a license. If a group of LN node operators (stupidly) tried to exclude anyone without a license, it would be trivial for other people to create their own LN network with other nodes that does not require a license.

You continue to spread fud, disinformation, and continue gaslighting the community. PLUS adds long techno-babble that developers themselves find laughable.

You say running Lightning nodes are only for banks? Yet the facts prove you wrong, https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-nodes

More than 5,000 nodes.

Some months ago a friend of mine invested into this lightning node and hoped for a financial improvement but wasn't what he thought about lightning node investment. I won't encourage anyone who sole aim is to invest for financial freedom, it's better to choose other investment platforms for financial freedom than lighting node.

wind fury continues to advertise LN.. yet also advertises his lack of first hand experience using it. or knowing its flaws or the bugs or its methods to manipulate things

if people put coins in. those other channels and routes around that person can actually manipulate the user to get him to lose his value. not have funds on their side to use themselves. or just be froze out of being a route

maybe it would have been best to spend your time actually learning about LN instead of just repeating the old promotional material handed to you by others. its getting too obvious now

...

anyway
without any bugs, flaws, its easy to abuse a LN user
find one with say X units of measure
ask the crowd of HYIP/pyramid scammers to join that user and send you X coins
then ask them to recruit their own dummies to join and send coins to them

you<0:X>userscammerA
becomes
youuserscammerA

you leave with X extra and let the pyramid scammers play

scammerBuserscammerA
scammerC/
becomes
scammerB<0:XX>user<:XX>scammerA
scammerC<0:XX>/
scammerA leaves with XX

'users' has to continually add more funds to open more channels
while people are exiting with more funds then they started with

..
and thats just one way to:
profit from LN
freeze out 'user' from doing any transactions for himself..
freeze out 'user' from being a route for other ethical users..
make him give up because he cant just keep funding new channels

yes in the end one scammer wont get returns. but the initial scammers did. and while it was lasting the user was losing funds and getting frustrated that he was getting abused by others.

again. no bugs. no flaws. no hacks.. just using LN features as intended

(there are many other ways to abuse LN and gain funds. but i just shown the weakest one that anyone with common sense could have figured out themselves. so no harm mentioning this one)

It's simply for convinience and efficiency, like mining. It is still the choice of the user, IF they want to "play the game".

If HODLers want to entrust their coins to a trusted third party to "stake" their Bitcoin for them, or run their own Lightning node, you can't make, or not make them.

Well you can run it on your PC assuming you can make it run consistently without downtime. It's not that choosy in terms of hardware though,  besides ample amounts of memory and bandwidth. You can use a Raspberry Pi 3.


I don't think so. You're probably going to be lucky to even breakeven with the electricity, bandwidth, and hardware costs lol.

the commercial bank game for LN is to dis-incentivise people from making their own profit
the commercial bank game is for people to deposit/lock their funds into their custody
the commercial bank game is to make it appear faster and cheaper and more reliable to use the banks services

certain devs are attached to companies that have over $100m in investment from the big banking corps and those investors want their returns.(banks dont just give out charity. they always want returns)

if you think that you can be independent and make profit on LN you are in for a shock
there is already alot of chatter that the big guys will attach themselves to you via channels. and then attach themselves to others so that a 10 hop route via independants is more expensive than their 2 hop route through the big guys 'factory channels' because they are the shortcut bypass, while making the normally 5 hop route appear to be 10 hops by being inbetween each

in the end making the independants give in and just put their funds into the big guys custody in full and then be offered temporary non broadcast 'factory' channels that can be consolidated/reconciled and aggregated without having to open and close onchain.
basically keep handing out paper promissory notes(bank notes) so people dont want/need/have/care to hold gold anymore

If you have 497 btc, you can earn about 0.054 btc (~$490) per day on celsius lending your coin, and I would assume somewhat similar amounts on other lending sites.

It does not look like there is currently enough volume to make a lot running a LN node. The benefit to doing so now is to learn how to run a LN node, and work out the kinks if you want to run a node when volume is higher in the future.

Read what is a Perpetual Motion Machine. That's POS. Security without burning energy can't be an assurance that POS is secure.

POS coins are actually what banks/exchanges like, because they can stake users' coins/have political leverage on the network without cost.

POS has its own problems. It's a perpetual motion machine , https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion


An open source software/technology designed for banks? Banks will buy Bitcoin, and stake it to provide liquidity, and efficiency in Lightning?

here is the thing
the purpose of LN might well seem to be presented as offering fee's of 1 sat per channel hop
but multiple parties involved to multihop. multiply that

so although one node may only make 1 sat per swap.. reality is the distance from the sender to the receiver is like 10 hops away. so the fee for the sender is 10sat

..
one group of nodes are already setting themselves up as multiple points along a route
A<>B<>C<>D<>E<>F<>G<>H<>I<>J<>K
imagine it like this A wants to pay K
b will only get 1 sat for his part. C only 1 sat, D only 1 sat and so on
but it cost A 10 sat

now imagine if B D F H J all belonged to one person..
suddenly for that one payment from A-K that one person has earned 5 sats

..
next generation of game theory is that the 10 hop route costs A 10sat.. but the guy owning BDFHJ
then offers a route of
A-B-J-k for only 9 sat

so A prefers paying 9 instead of 10. and now the guy owning many chanels gets 9 sat instead of just 5
and making the independant nodes CEGI never get used and end up giving up using LN
..
but that was game theory back when the promotional media dribble was promising low sat fee's
with sat fees at 0.1% and most route being multiple hops. that total fee end to end is more than 0.1%
and if channel factories are clever enough they can get multiple 0.1% as shown above

have a nice day
and as for the bugs and flaws. i dont like to teach scammers how to scam. if your not smart enough to work it out you dont deserve it.
the LN devs themselves know of many flaws and yep they themselves have 'lost' funds from it
i say 'lost' because coins do not disapear off the blockchain. but silly bugs and bad rules make silly people give away their LN millsat funds to others. so that when a real bitcoin transaction occurs onchain its not in their favour. due to their silliness. they signed off on a broadcast transaction thats not in their favour due to the silliness of the LN contracts offchain(facepalm)

LN is not a safe network and not a network that should even be considered on the same neighbourhood as bitcoin. it does not deserve the fame/trust that the bitcoin network has

How much money does it cost you to create that node?
Can I use my PC (CORE i7) to do this, or do I need a specialized hardware device?

I read on one of the forums that I can make returns from $ 10 to $ 30 a month?
If this is true and I can manage 3 nodes without having to sit in front of the computer for a long time, then perhaps it is considered a good source of income in some countries where there is electricity and equipment.