The reason for the scams is because it's not really PoW it's incentivized PoW. Btw the next scam wave is cloud mining. These scams won't stop because current mining is more like bitcoin investing/annuity and that's the direct result of the way the current bitcoin PoW works.
Exactly, I agree and that's the point I am trying to make.
but just like many ppl try to tie Bitcoin to drugs, you are trying to tie the asic pre order mining scams to POW. that's ridiculous.
btw, HF didn't start off being a scam, i can assure you. there's a case to be made they didn't even end up being a scam. they were incompetent's.
It's not ridiculous, it's just a fact.
it's a fact in your own mind. why else would we be having this debate if it was truly a fact?
This isn't a debate, it is you feigning ignorance. I refuse to believe you are this stupid. Both PoW and PoS each have their flaws, and none is "better" or "worse" than the other. PoW is better than PoS in some areas, and PoS is better than PoW in some areas. It is a two way road, but you are acting as if it is a one way road.
PoW opens people up to getting scammed by mining hardware manufacturers because they (or eventually with all PoW algos) will need to buy specialized hardware to compete with other miners.
PoS solves this problem as it doesn't require mining hardware in the first place.
that is simply an educational and early adopter issue. in fact, pre-orders have become a thing of the past as ppl have learned not to trust these potential scams. as mining hardware becomes commoditized by the likes of major hardware corps, prices will come down, and all the scams will disappear. it's already happening.
Preorders are becoming a thing of the past, but that is only one way ASIC manufacturers and/or distributors are scamming their customers. They have moved on to doing it in a more upfront way by selling the mining equipment at a price that will never break even. It may not be a scam, in the sense of the true meaning of the word scam, but it is a dishonest shady business to say the least.
A lot of companies advertise in stock products only to delay those as well, so the preorder-type scams still exist, only in a different form.
Drugs are a whole different conversation. As long as money exists (FIAT, PoW, or PoS), people will use it to buy drugs. However, crypto currencies can be made to not require mining hardware by using PoW alternatives, which solves the problem of people getting scammed by shady hardware manufacturers.
I am all for the improving crypto currencies because they align with my libertarian beliefs, and I feel like PoS is a step in the right direction because it solves a lot of issues with PoW coins. Sure, it is not perfect, but it I feel it is a step in the right direction nonetheless.
b/c POS involves
no work, it is
easier to scam.
It is "easier" to scam, yet no one has been able to do it yet. As market caps grow and the crypto currencies are more evenly distributed it will become even more unlikely that it will happen.
all the failed POS systems are evidence of this.
Name one PoS crypto currency that has been attacked through the same avenues that PoW evangelists claim to be so insecure. To my knowledge there is not a single one. There are only cases of services/people getting hacked which happens out of incompetence rather than PoS being insecure. PoW coins suffer from the same vulnerabilities that PoS coins have suffered thus far, both of which stem from incompetence. Not a flawed protocol.
in fact, there are no successful POS systems in place today.
There are a few very successful PoS system in place... Nxt, Bitshares, and Blackcoin... all of which have market caps above 4.7 million dollars.
I think what you mean are there are no invulnerable PoS implementations in place today. The same could be same for PoW implementations though, which is where you are wrong in claiming PoW is so much better than PoS. They both have vulnerabilities. Bitcoin has a long list of known vulnerabilities as well:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknessesby tying the mining to a real world cost, electricity, it is much harder to scam.
You have somewhat of a point here, however to build a mining farm would be the most inefficient way of attacking the Bitcoin network. It can be done many other ways that would be cheaper. Rooting a large mining pool would probably be the cheapest way, and you could pay someone to do that for much cheaper than you could buy 51% of the available currency in the larger PoS crypto currencies.
Along with that possible avenue, as I mentioned, there are many other avenues you could take:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/WeaknessesPOS's have everything to prove unlike the ultimate POW system, Bitcoin.
BOTH PoW and PoS are unproven thus far. PoW is not fully played out yet, as ASICs were only available a year and a half ago. It is my belief that all the profit of PoW mining will be sucked out by ASIC manufacturers and people with deep pockets, that the Bitcoin network will become more and more centralized as time goes on. With this centralization can lead to many bad things, such as the small mining conglomerate deciding they want to be paid more for transaction fees or reversing a transaction when they are hacked at some point in time. That is one of the things PoS is getting a lot of heat for lately, but it could just as easily happen to Bitcoin (or other PoW coins), especially as mining becomes more centralized.
It could happen today if Ghash.io or discus fish are rooted. Someone with 30% of Bitcoin's hash rate has something like a 60% chance of being able to reverse a transaction with only 1 confirmation. IT is actually quite scary how easily a 51% attack could be performed, and even though it is called a 51% attack... you don't need anywhere close to 51% of the network's computing power to do it. See page 10:
https://bitcoil.co.il/Doublespend.pdf
