Is regulation really inevitable? - page 3.

btcfinans

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Quote from: Zilon on October 20, 2022, 02:33:59 PM

From all stand point as Bitcoin keeps gaining more popularity and adoptions it won't be inaccurate to say the government are endlessly finding a way to do a complete regulation on Crypto currency specifically Bitcoin, Despite most times the word crypto currency might be used to address all crypto related digital asset but the main target remains Bitcoin due to it's decentralised and distributed network as well as been the major crypto asset.

Why it is obvious getting full control of Bitcoin functionality and distribution seems impossible due the fact it has no central point of control one might expect stricter rules governing the use of custodian and non-custodian wallet, declaration of all cold wallet addresses, Setting up committee to monitor transactions on the blockchain public ledger, introduction of wallet trackers and ownership on different OS and maybe lots of wild experimentation to make regulation a possibility.

Believe you me no matter how advanced bitcoin decentralisation might look or sound the government will never risk giving their citizens full control of their assets. The always want to be in charge and has long has they have this limitation of full custody stricter laws regarding Bitcoin usage might spring up. Technology is advancing

The problem is that many people lose their private key and lose their bitcoins. I gave some crypto to a friend of mine but he lost everything because he lost access to his private key. The government need to implement a recovery system based on identity. It already exists for gold and other assets. If you can prove that the bitcoins are yours (like a purchase receipt) then they can order the miners to release the funds. The mantra "not your keys not your bitcoins" is absurd. if you lose your private key it's still your bitcoins if you can prove that it belongs to you.

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Quote from: PeRo on October 24, 2022, 08:27:20 AM

I don't think they can really fully regulate Bitcoin, but the system has already been consistent on trying to put it under their control at any way they can. It's their business to put tax or some kind of fee's on everything and of course track people, transactions etc. Bitcoin is a target since it has a lot of value now, it's not a small market anymore like several years ago. They can add regulations, bans but they still wont be able to control it yet and hopefully it will stay that way.

Perhaps bitcoin really cannot be fully regulated, but it is probably possible to make life difficult for users. For example, by criminalising mining or any use of the cryptocurrency. Another good example is blocking funds by ethereum validators if they are associated with tornado cash. I don't know if this is feasible with bitcoin, but it seems to me that something similar could be done for large miners too, so that they don't allow certain transactions to go through.

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You know whenever Cryptocurrency is mentioned my understanding is only on bitcoin because I take bitcoin as the king of crypto. And if bitcoin is the king of crypto it has a lot of battles on it way to popularize in the world. And if any government or authority is trying to remove or ban cryptocurrency, the first target is bitcoin because for them if/when bitcoin is defeated then other Cryptocurrencies will be defeated easily but it is very hard for them to defeat bitcoin because of it decentralized nature.
A country that stopped crypto in their Banks became the highest country using crypto in Africa. Only that will tell you that no government or institution can stop or ban bitcoin to the zero percent.
Bitcoin is the King of Crypto.

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Quote from: kamvreto on October 24, 2022, 11:39:39 AM

But it will not apply to the personal wallet used.

Of course, I know about this but I can't be 100% on the same side as the government might be able to regulate users instead of non-custodial wallets. As I said above, some jurisdictions can prevent you from owning certain products so the process of shipping goods without a marketing authorization will result in you failing to own something. Then more than that, you won't be able to hide forever when the government starts watching your movements even if you hide your privacy.

Quote from: kamvreto on October 24, 2022, 11:39:39 AM

Regulation is the main foundation for governments to profit from cryptocurrencies.

Especially from users and centralized exchange.

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Quote from: _BlackStar on October 24, 2022, 09:04:53 AM

~snip~I just agree the government has ways of preventing you from using bitcoin, monitoring your transactions and such. But I don't think they will succeed in preventing all of them and I agree that the government can only partially regulate it.

The government can only regulate part or at the widest layer. They will never be able to fully manage everything. Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies are only given regulations that will curb their users, such as regulating taxes, users who have to deposit KYC or restrictions on transactions on exchanges. But it will not apply to the personal wallet used. Regulation is the main foundation for governments to profit from cryptocurrencies.

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on October 24, 2022, 02:04:31 AM

As much as crypto currencies have gained credence, esp Bitcoin, there are still skeptical investors who are are scared to invest in it due to it's high volatility rate, but with these regulations, it helps allays their fears somewhat.
As new coins keep emerging in the market, it's quite necessary for government to regulate them to avoid less speculation and as well boost the morale of these traders who beforehand had the fear to to do so.

This is a good side of regulation, regulation will really help cryptocurrency grow as people will start using it more once it is protected by the government, scam projects will definitely decrease because there is penalties for fraud. But in terms of privacy, regulation controls us the way they use fiat controls us. Those who do not want to reveal their identities and hide their assets will face many difficulties and even lead to breaking the law if the regulations are too strict. Regulation is inevitable and will have advantages and disadvantages.

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on October 20, 2022, 03:38:23 PM

Fully regulate? Quite impossible. The government would regulate cryptocurrency partially.

Of course, governments won't be able to regulate everything even when they desperately want to control bitcoin. So it is true that they can only regulate a few things, but the government can't regulate the bitcoin network.

Quote from: The Cryptovator on October 20, 2022, 03:38:23 PM

If you deal with p2p and store Bitcoin in a non-custodial wallet like Ledger then how the government would monitor or regulate you?

There are several things that might prevent banned bitcoin users from trading Ledger ^{[Hardware Wallet]} if the government has prohibited it by regulation. Basically every product is subject to the rules and laws of a particular country, so it is always possible for the government to prohibit its circulation.

Meanwhile, I read this one from Ledger, it's one of their ToS.

Quote

4. Risks and recommendations - Source
You acknowledge that you are fully aware of all applicable laws and technical constraints relating to the proof-of-stake and proof-of-work blockchains, and to the Services. You acknowledge that you have been warned of the following associated risks and advised of the following recommendations:

4.1 Regulatory changes. Blockchain technologies and related services are subject to continuous regulatory changes and scrutiny around the world, including but not limited to anti-money laundering and financial regulations. You acknowledge that certain Services, including their availability, could be impacted by one or more regulatory requirements.

I just agree the government has ways of preventing you from using bitcoin, monitoring your transactions and such. But I don't think they will succeed in preventing all of them and I agree that the government can only partially regulate it.

PeRo

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I don't think they can really fully regulate Bitcoin, but the system has already been consistent on trying to put it under their control at any way they can. It's their business to put tax or some kind of fee's on everything and of course track people, transactions etc. Bitcoin is a target since it has a lot of value now, it's not a small market anymore like several years ago. They can add regulations, bans but they still wont be able to control it yet and hopefully it will stay that way.

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Quote from: Antonas1 on October 24, 2022, 08:12:41 AM

Yes, because the ban is not fully enforced by all countries in the world. There are still many countries that legalize to use of cryptocurrencies. I said, if the whole world (without exception) banned bitcoin and all cryptocurrencies, it would have a big impact.

It is difficult to feel the effect of it, surely Crypto will fall deep if the whole world bans. It's hard to happen but whatever it's all in crypto can come. But I didn't expect that.

Quote from: Antonas1 on October 24, 2022, 08:12:41 AM

Of course, the movement still exists, even in countries that ban bitcoin. But did I discuss the movement?

Even if looking for news about china, I read in the local media after the ban on their transactions still continued. They use a VPN to keep their whereabouts private. They are also working on using Metaverse and NFT-related campaigns.

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Quote from: Fara Chan on October 23, 2022, 11:06:50 PM

It doesn't matter if the ban is enforced, did you know that bitcoin was also synonymous with prohibition, but its development continues to improve until now.

Yes, because the ban is not fully enforced by all countries in the world. There are still many countries that legalize to use of cryptocurrencies. I said, if the whole world (without exception) banned bitcoin and all cryptocurrencies, it would have a big impact.

Quote from: Fara Chan on October 23, 2022, 11:06:50 PM

Try to find a country that prohibits bitcoin, whether bitcoin's growth has stopped, the answer is no. They only restrict but don't completely ban, so bitcoin can still be accessed in that country.

Of course, the movement still exists, even in countries that ban bitcoin. But did I discuss the movement?

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Quote from: Fara Chan on October 23, 2022, 11:06:50 PM

This is even more unlikely, the legal framework is based on many considerations, bitcoin is not legalized as an official currency and legal tender, but it is not a use case prohibition, even if the state prohibits bitcoin, people can still access it in various ways.

It is legalized as an official currency in El Salvador. It is prohibited to use it as currency in various countries. Also, prohibition is legal framework.

Quote from: Fara Chan on October 23, 2022, 11:06:50 PM

The case of stocks, precious metals and markets, is different with bitcoin, and if taxation is expected, it has been subject to withholding transactions through banks or so-called administrative fees.

I didn't say it's going to be easy to collect taxes from bitcoin users, but we should expect it happening within the next decade. And no, I didn't mean intermediaries' fees. I meant taxation. Like Co2 tax, or VAT.

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Quote from: davis196 on October 24, 2022, 12:58:29 AM

I think that there is a misunderstanding of the term "regulation".
The governments trying to regulate the crypto industry is one thing. The governments trying to destroy your privacy and achieve complete control and transparency over your assets is a completely different thing. This doesn't seem like regulation to me. It seems more like dictatorship.
Of course, all this BS comes with good intentions. Fighting tax evasion and money laundering. Lowering the amount of crypto scams, etc.
The battle against total government control is inevitable. Trying to protect your privacy will become more and more difficult in the future and you might be facing consequences.

Can there be a destruction of privacy if there is no regulation governing the usage of Bitcoin i think the answer is obviously no. Regulation or declaration of crypto asset is another way of saying your privacy is compromised, destroyed and taken away. I see dictatorship as the aftermath of the regulation if it eventually actualises. The government are working endlessly to see the get full control of the crypto space since their ban is not having effect at all.

As for the good intents that is been presented before the public just like the money laundering fight on tax evasion, i bet it will still be used against citizens. No matter how nice it is been painted powers in the hands of a central body becomes compromised with time

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Quote from: Zilon on October 20, 2022, 02:33:59 PM

Believe you me no matter how advanced bitcoin decentralisation might look or sound the government will never risk giving their citizens full control of their assets. The always want to be in charge and has long has they have this limitation of full custody stricter laws regarding Bitcoin usage might spring up. Technology is advancing

That's why they're the government, they're following the centralized way of managing the country so things must go accordingly to what they're implementing. And as for our assets, it's on you on how you should keep them. They're still giving us some freedom to manage these things as we still get to own them but they've got a portion of it through taxes. We hold and manage our own assets but they're telling us that let's not forget them that they have a part of everything we profit with, whether it's from btc or not.

Majestic-milf

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As much as crypto currencies have gained credence, esp Bitcoin, there are still skeptical investors who are are scared to invest in it due to it's high volatility rate, but with these regulations, it helps allays their fears somewhat.
As new coins keep emerging in the market, it's quite necessary for government to regulate them to avoid less speculation and as well boost the morale of these traders who beforehand had the fear to to do so.

davis196

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I think that there is a misunderstanding of the term "regulation".
The governments trying to regulate the crypto industry is one thing. The governments trying to destroy your privacy and achieve complete control and transparency over your assets is a completely different thing. This doesn't seem like regulation to me. It seems more like dictatorship.
Of course, all this BS comes with good intentions. Fighting tax evasion and money laundering. Lowering the amount of crypto scams, etc.
The battle against total government control is inevitable. Trying to protect your privacy will become more and more difficult in the future and you might be facing consequences.

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Quote from: michellee on October 21, 2022, 05:37:23 AM

Governments may be able to control the exchanges that trade bitcoins but what about decentralized exchanges? The government certainly will not be able to control it.

It is true, that anyone who has not taken the time to understand bitcoin will find it difficult to understand how a decentralized exchange can be secure. This exchange has a different set of security issues, and these are issues that are still being resolved.

How can we protect someone's money if the money is not deposited in the bank? Who needs to sign the transaction?

The answers to these questions may not be clear, but what can be said for sure is that there are people working hard to find alternative approaches. That may not mean that regulators won't try to suppress these new exchanges, but I think decentralization makes bitcoin more resilient than we often give it. My assumption is that regulators will inevitably try, but whether they succeed is still uncertain.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on October 22, 2022, 10:48:39 AM

He means to impose a legal framework around bitcoin, same as with stocks, precious metals, and markets. For example, taxation of bitcoin.

This is even more unlikely, the legal framework is based on many considerations, bitcoin is not legalized as an official currency and legal tender, but it is not a use case prohibition, even if the state prohibits bitcoin, people can still access it in various ways. The case of stocks, precious metals and markets, is different with bitcoin, and if taxation is expected, it has been subject to withholding transactions through banks or so-called administrative fees.

Quote from: Antonas1 on October 23, 2022, 06:35:23 AM

No, these regulations may affect cryptocurrencies. Imagine if all countries agreed to completely ban Bitcoin, and no one was against regulation. What will happen?

It doesn't matter if the ban is enforced, did you know that bitcoin was also synonymous with prohibition, but its development continues to improve until now. Try to find a country that prohibits bitcoin, whether bitcoin's growth has stopped, the answer is no. They only restrict but don't completely ban, so bitcoin can still be accessed in that country.

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Quote from: mindrust on October 21, 2022, 02:40:50 AM

Broad adoption without regulation is impossible imo. If you want bitcoin to be adopted widely then you need to accept regulations by the governments. The regulations will make crypto exchanges look like banks because of the KYC enforcement (if it hasn't happened already) and that is not a good thing. Crypto means freedom and KYC is the exact opposite of being free. We are trying to escape the FIAT slavery system but regulations will turn crypto into a similar thing.

Indeed because there are countries who currently ban cryptos but they might change their minds for one condition and that is if people will agree for the crypto to be regulated by them. This is hard but this is better than nothing. At least people can still experience if what are cryptos.

Crypto exchanges (the centralized one) were already look like a bank even before because they can hold and freeze the users funds. Not all centralized exchanges mandate a KYC but if they did and we don't like it then we can switch on decentralized exchanges. Regulations can also be avoided but there might be some inconveniences that we might felt.

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Quote from: Fara Chan on October 22, 2022, 10:39:53 AM

Quote from: Antonas1 on October 22, 2022, 08:21:51 AM

~

What kind of regulation does the OP mean, bitcoin cannot be controlled by anyone, because the basic framework of development does not include it. Regulations can only limit support, but not control bitcoin, and no one will ever agree to this issue.

They make regulations not to control Bitcoin, but to control users.
For example, there are several countries that have banned using Bitcoin, such as Algeria, Nepal, and Bangladesh. Meanwhile, countries such as China, Bahrain, Turkey, and Russia only legally restricted to using Bitcoin in their countries. It all happened because these countries made regulations. You can read the full list at Countries Where Bitcoin Is Banned or Legal In 2022.

Quote from: Fara Chan on October 22, 2022, 10:39:53 AM

Therefore, I don't think that regulation will have any effect on bitcoin's future journey, because from the past there has never been regulation.
Unlike the case with CBDC, it absolutely has a pattern that can be set by them.

No, these regulations may affect cryptocurrencies. Imagine if all countries agreed to completely ban Bitcoin, and no one was against regulation. What will happen?

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on October 20, 2022, 03:38:23 PM

Fully regulate? Quite impossible. The government would regulate cryptocurrency partially. If you deal with p2p and store Bitcoin in a non-custodial wallet like Ledger then how the government would monitor or regulate you? Yes, they can regulate exchange, custodial wallets, etc. That's how they can regulate a large number of users because at the end of the day we have to use the exchange. Dex always won't help is at all points.

And talking about DEXs, I believe for now they are not subject to KYC/AML regulations that's why most people will continue to advise to use them in other to avoid providing your personal information but what happens if the Government really wants to regulate, this means they too might be put under that law as well and both CEXs and DEXs are fully under the Governments monitoring scop except for countries whos Government are pro-Bitcoin/cryptocurrency.

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