Topic: Is Smooth a Hypocrite ? - page 2. (Read 5142 times)

Present performance and events are not necessarily an indication of future performance. The DAO came out of no where to $168 million.

Please don't tell me you are omniscient. You have no idea what I am doing for example, unless you planted a virus on my computer.

And don't underestimate my ability to pump. I will only pump what I believe in, which means it has to actually be technically sound.

I am not saying I will be the one. Again Steem also has some of the right ingredients. They need some of my ingredients. If the two could be put together, that would very much increase the odds. But the problem is all the vested interests and personalities, etc.. Sometimes it is more efficient to just code yourself than to go talk with others.


The mass market is ready but we haven't tapped it yet. That is specifically what I could really help Steem on. I already have the design. I am just trying to implement. It took them years to build up their code stack. I am starting from scratch.


Who passed away amongst Monero core devs? You had a dev older than me?

Yeah most people think Vitalik is so awesome but I see he butchered the DAO concept. And he doesn't code and debug.

Steemit has a lot of JS I assume at least on the client side? Are they writing the server side of Steemit in C++?

I prefer to move away from C++ if I can. I can code rudimentary C++ but I quit C++ in 2001 before all  the bells and whistles that have been added hence including STL, etc.. Of course I can readily pick up all that because I am polyglot, but I prefer not to use C++.

Fair enough... didn't read that part earlier. Yes, well in that case if the tally of the instamine roughly matches with the total payouts less a reasonable sum for the devs it is not so bad. You can argue really the distribution process only starts via the steem.it board. The first part was merely away of getting the coins into the devs hands without calling it a premine.

What they hell? I showed you the ledger for Steem's "stealth mine" coins. Most of the Steem "stealth mine" coins are sitting in the 'steemit' account doing nothing. A relatively small amount have been sold off, and coins are consistently being distributed to new users.


Only the devs can mine is wrong. I mined and so did some other non-devs. Unlike Dash, Steem has a hyper-transparent ledger where most of the coins in existence can be clearly seen and tracked with people's names on them.

It was not a "fair launch" as you like to define that term, but it wasn't completely closed either, nor was there anything deceptive or misleading about it that I have identified.

I'm also not sure where they claim "no premine" either. It used to be on their thread but I don't see it any more.

There are no coins making any real moves to 100 millions of user adoption with the possible exception of Bitcoin perhaps slowly very, very doing so. But this was a discussion of altcoins, which makes Bitcoin irrelevant.

Leave that kind of hyperbole to the pumpers. You're not very good at that game (no insult).


It may, it may not. I'm on record saying many times that it will probably fail and become worthless. Of all the coins around, it is in a small group that has the best chance to be around in 20 years (Bitcoin obviously far eclipses all the rest, and not only because of its size)


Maybe. It could be that the mass market just doesn't want it. One of the merits of a slow and steady approach is that the mass market may wants something in the future that it doesn't want now.


IMO the Bitshares ecosystem (including Steem) has the best coders and not just Dan, at least if you want to stick with C++ or don't care about PL. Also the best quality code stack. Bitcoin has very good coders, but I'm assuming you are only speaking of alts. Monero had one excellent C++ coder but he unfortunately passed away, along with several competent ones. I'm unsure about Ethereum; apparently Gavin was a good coder (speaking on second-hand reports, not my personal assessment). Vitalik is hardly a coder at all. I don't know about the others. But as you say coding ability is not the only thing that matters. There are many other ways to mess things up, and other ways to add value.

Wow, hats off. This thread got to be one of the most insightful in crypto land. Posts on a level as we can enjoy here are rare to come by. Shelby and Smooth discussing all things crypto and distribution.

How can anyone know. There is no ledger for either. What if Dash is actually spending more of his instamine on development of the coin than steem is?
Steem says strictly no premine whilst taking many measure to ensure only they can mine all the coins at launch. To be fair if only the devs can mine then it is really a premine or captive instamine. I don't see one as much better than the other.

I don't keep track of XMR.  I saw something about it crashed in recent months exactly as I warned multiple times your highly censored speculation thread to take some profits when it ran up high recently. Maybe it has pulled back up, yet in that interim time ETH has made a 100X gain off the IPO price. As far as I know XMR has not yet exceeded its all time price high (of course mcap is higher because money supply has increased) right after launch perhaps due to rpietila's incessant promotion at that time. I think XMR investors have been quite frustrated to see ETH and DASH kicking its butt in terms of gains made and so out of jealousy they go attack others.

That is not to diminish the work of for example fluffypony, because that is still a lot of work and I have said he deserves what ever success Monero can muster.

Well my 1970 Radio Shack (Texas Instruments) handheld calculator might still be operating with 1 occasional user but that is irrelevant isn't it.

Yeah I suppose Monero still has some 1000s of users because Zcash isn't released yet. But the clock is ticking on that plus as other coins moves towards 100 millions of user adoption and add anonymity then why will anyone still bother with Monero. Even Steem plans to duplicate RingCT, but they probably don't understand marketing well enough to be that popular coin, although we both give them kudos on making an actually slick Reddit clone. The problem is they don't seem to understand social networks well. But they may learn fast and adapt. We'll see.

If there are any grand plans for Monero that are way beyond RingCT, then I apologize for not being aware of them. So factor my myopia on that aspect in accordingly.

Sorry if you feel I am trying to paint a false perception. That is honestly and frankly how I see it playing out. RingCT isn't even the best or only anonymity technology and the real problem is that which ever coin ends up being very popular will just add anonymity.

I am not trying to be extra callous, but I am just so tired of hearing how Mundanero will still be going 20 years from now. Hey I need a popular coin now! If Monero can't do it, then someone else will.

Btw I agree that there haven't been really serious achievements from altcoins. Ethereum is an unfinished and highly unpolished work, that doesn't yet have a killer app. The DAO is an unmitigated disaster in the making. And Dash is of course Dashtardly.

Steem appears to have good coders. If they had only consulted with me to get the marketing design right and the debasement design right. I am quite tempted to find out who their best coders are and try to approach them, but I've watched Dan so many times botch things, that I am wary. I also know what he did to Charles and I have never repeated that and never will. It is so difficult to choose a partner. I've observed Charles get kicked out of two projects.

I honestly wish I could say good luck to Monero. But some of them have berated me and been so condescending to me, that I don't think I can't wash the taste out of my mouth ever. I must admit the feeling borders on hate. I try to push it down, but it is difficult to forget the way the community treats others. The top assholes include:

Shen-noether
iCEBREAKER (and he also backed off his attacks when he saw that I really knew my shit about PL design with Keann but frankly it is already too late because I see his true colors)
(and that other guy I've forgotten his username, although he tried to be nice just before I got banned)
and various others at various times.

They probably think I am an asshurl as well. Bad blood. I will just stay away from them entirely. Thus I hope Monero fades far away from my consciousness.

It is really a horrible feeling when I hear the word Monero. And I am not the only person who feels that way. You guys killed your marketing.

That is not to say I dislike everyone who supports Monero. There are some guys there I get along with. You being one except I am kind of annoyed that you are the leader and the censor. I just pray all the animosity of it will disappear. And all the snobbishness and condescending berating. Arghh!

Ya know if anonymity was really the #1 market, I would have built a coin on my Zero Knowledge Transactions. But I realized it wasn't the good priority. There is no significant adoption, so it ends up just being a fist fight between the various camps, because no camp can really go gain an adoption market to make it clear which one is the winner.

You were the FIRST person other than me to call out evans for captive instamining xcoin (dark/dash) it is right there in the thread. You are the one saying evans engineered the launch to set up the premine. Look at the first 5 pages of the darkcoin thread???

"wut.. no premine but you have 5k to throw?"  illodin (page 5) even before that you are moaning about the launch and you like most at the launch were for some reason having a big problem trying to mine the coins. Seems your 5 easy steps weren't so easy in this case.


Why?  because the entire thing was set up for evans and a few others to take them all whilst telling everyone else it was a fair release like other alts that were released at the time. It was not. It is therefore a scam. It like this you tell people it's a fair launch with no premine no instamine then do exactly what you say you are not doing. That is a scam. There is no need for a deep philosophical debate 50 abstract levels deeper and off on all tangents.

How are you still protecting that scam coin??

So later you managed to get your hands on some and it's all okay and there was no reason to complain??

Every other coin claiming a fair release had windows binaries. Yes, if you really want a fairer and wider distribution you will release with windows binaries.

Steem and dash are both scams. They deliberately did what they said they were not doing. It's that simple. That's a lie. That's a scam. There will be those that will persuade many through elaborate thought experiments that these are not scams or that they are simply scams that should take place. That's not going to wash for the majority of the board. They want "fairer" "wider" distributions and if you can show in simple observable terms that a currency has not attempted fair and wide distribution then hopefully it will be cast out as a pariah project regardless of the tech behind it. It can always be cloned and distributed in a fairer and wider manner.

A better summary of what Dan was going through during that period and I specifically saw his frustration for the few moments I was in his forum:

https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doa

I agree 100% with smooth's analysis, DASH & steem are very different, both might not pass the sniff test, but DASH was a scam, and steem is just a bad design, maybe even with bad motivation, but not a scam.

You are doing what you decry, which is trying to declare the market to be according to your perceptions or desires (all about 100x pumps and 3-6 month hype coins). Monero is doing fine after two and half yeare. Development continues, the market cap is at or near its all-time high, and even the price in Bitcoin is higher than it has been for most of if its lifetime (or another way to look at that is the weighted average of coins from their date of emission).

Monero has outlasted and outgrown hundreds of hype crap coins that came after it and it will continue to outlast most of the current crop of garbage. If you want to play the pumps as a trader, or think that you are have a particular skill set that makes you well-suited to playing crap coin launches as an organizer and hype promoter, only then would all this short term noise even matter to you.

I argue that the distinction between Steem and Dash is irrelevant when we are applying to whether one who tries to be perfect can never be. My point was by allowing all experiments we don't get trapped in trying to explain ethically that one less than wide distribution is less worse/wrong than another more concentrated distribution, as if two ethical "wrongs" make one ethically right. I am not even convinced either was ethically "wrong" (because this is the altcoin game and know the rules or lack thereof before you play). They just are what they are. Facts aren't ethically or morally qualified, unless you are a politician who bends the definition of fact. As for being "wrong" in terms of technological or marketing success, those are useful datums for speculators.


If Michael Jordan had expend his time and effort explaining why all the other players sucked, he would not be a G.O.A.T..

Achievers achieve. Bitchers bitch.

Each of us gets to choose.

I support that this is a free market and you have every right to point out those differences.

I hope the distinction is clear, that what I think it is futile is trying to maintain awareness of your stance, by basically advertising by brute force the above information.

Fact is that the altcoin market ends up ignoring and forgetting that information. And who are you (and your Monero group) to force it down everyone's throat over and over and over and over.

I realize you didn't repeat that every day, but the underlings (myself included) maintained the barrage.

How about accepting the fact that the market doesn't really care. (We should) Move on. Find a new vocation and hopefully one that is more creative and produces something great for altcoins. If the market doesn't think Monero is great, that is not Dash's fault. Dash has nothing to do with why the market is not going bonkers for Monero.

The real problem for Monero is that speculators are not investing for some 20 year Manhattan project. They want to invest in near-term 10 - 100X gain potential. They also don't see that level of potential excitement about anonymity.

Speculators are shooting for the next Bitcoin investment. Ethereum already fulfilled that goal, rising by 100X from the IPO price.

Perhaps you and some other Monero long-term HODLers wanted the altcoin market to be about something which it isn't.

You may remember back when rpietila used to proclaim that Monero would be the next best thing to Bitcoin and I was really pissed off for him lording over the future like a God. And this was someone who I was cordial with and had done business with in silver. There was always this air of snobbishness and condescending attitude from the Monero supporters (not all, but a lot).

I often said this altcoin market is not for heirlooms. New ideas and goals are popping up every 3 - 6 months. Innovate or die.

The long-term Linux approach appears to be inapplicable to altcoins.

Please note I am humbled by your accomplishments in CC compared to mine and I noted that at the end of the prior post.


I appreciate your and gmaxwell's eloquently worded case for self-regulation, or more accurately on the logic of why self-regulation is futile.

QED.

And my further point is that not only is it futile (you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink), but my prior replies to smooth are arguing that it is harmful, because if we remove the degrees-of-freedom from nature, it can't anneal. Then we end up with top-down driven grid lock of expert omniscience, e.g Blockstream's clusterfuck Troika of SegWit, LN, and Sidechains. I've mentioned my reasons for that stance on those technologies else where.

Gregory seems to play the collectivist card, and I suspect he also thinks man-made global warming is not a hoax to tax carbon based on his support for oppressive CopyLeft software licenses indicating he is for radical leftist style intervention. In short, I read gmaxwell to be an interventionist of a much higher degree than smooth. But interventionalism is also a groupthink effect and becomes a mania. Thus I am think we need to be very well grounded in anarchism and respecting nature, else we will slide into another Holocaust.

We need to allow all viewpoints and all experiments.

Nothing wrong with stating your case for example on the Monero documentation as to specific reasons why other systems are inferior. You should promote the advantages. And then it is up to the market to decide.

But creating a BCT/Reddit funnel that all speculators must pass through, wherein we try to control the process, is stomping on nature and will result in failure to anneal or the annealing will route around the Coasian barrier.

Quoting myself (the linked original contains some links which I didn't bother to copy over in this quote):

Although perhaps an accurate summary of some facets and appreciably sobering, I think this is indicative of too pessimistic or one-sided perspective which needs more balance.

He may have profited earlier during the ProtoShares, which may have kept him motivated to keep trying. And then eventually he lands on the Steem project. There Butterfly Effects and serendipity is beyond our omniscience. We stay engaged so we are ready to have breakthrough moment, such as this morning when I awoke and realized the killer app for smart block chains.


Well I am very glad he tried it before I did, so I can learn not to try it. Nature meanders and all the noise is integral to (essential element of) the process of decentralized annealing to the optimum fitness.

My analysis/opinion thus far is that the challenge for Steemit thus far is the investment and usership model:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15233793


No comment.  


That fucking Chronic Fatigue Syndrome delirium scrambled egg brain fog health crap has been a 4 year DAILY (1460+ days!) fucking albatross around my neck! Good grief Mr. Nature/Universe/God, please give me a break! I want to code!


Of course I will not copy their methodology. I will not launch vaporware and instead something with real technological and marketing innovation that can withstand peer review.

But I am also not going to criticize them other than noting what they did. I'll let the speculators decide how they play the game. I'll be trying  to observe and understand what all the players in this altcoin arena game are doing. I'd rather understand, than delude myself into thinking I have any control over others.

Any influence I have will most significantly only be due to any great accomplishments, if any.

And fluffypony commented in this thread. And he has more great accomplishment in altcoins than I, so I am humbled. Apologies i am so loud mouthed. Just replying to all your points.

Oh thanks for explaining that. So due to my ignorance of their API, I had the wrong initial assumption. Thanks for correcting me.


Ah I see it is only the personal reputation motivation. I should have realized that, but the likely reason I didn't it because I think as you can observe that I don't place a very high value on status, as I abandoned my Hero account (which would have been Legendary by now) and a couple of Senior level accounts also.

Some people like to aspire to titles such as President of the Student Council, or other forms of recognized social status, especially when these are empowering, such as how on this forum having reputation allows one to muck with reputation of others.

I personally detest those structures and have always avoided them since even high school.

The only titles I ever valued were the ones of accomplishment. For example, my past sporting and software venture achievements. The only reputation I want is one of being someone who created something great. I don't want political clout. And I don't want to use political clout.

So that is a fundamental difference between us that will be difficult to reconcile, which explains why I got upset with your moderation of the Monero thread and deleting my defenses against those who berated me there. Albeit you were always trying to balance the politics and you tried to retain my comments quoted into tiny font. I just reject the entire community concept of a leader censor managing a lot of underlings. I prefer a flat structure of competing achievers. The defacto leader is the one who achieves the most.

I hate meta noise. I want a flat lean, self healing structure.


Yeah I am against the concept of community self-regulation. I prefer no regulation.

We'll agree to disagee and I won't pesker you about it any  more. I'll just ignore it when I see it.

Again sorry for shifting sands of my attitude.

What you seeing now is the real me. I was trying to be someone I wasn't, I guess to appease others.

Sorry I am really a minanarchist at heart, bordering on full anarchist.

I don't know if because I was so sick, perhaps I lost my internal compass due to the semiconscious state (delirium) of fighting with my CFS. But my internal compass throughout my life, has always been non-interventionalist. Perhaps I was also driven by fear (debilitating health can break any person) and financial desperation which caused me to perhaps lose the confidence in myself that I need to not compromise my ethics of anarchism (i.e. feeling I was helpless and needed to rely on others and my reputation for their approval)

Getting "ripped off" is ambiguous as it is all part of the game. Was I ripped off when I chose to sell localbitcoins via paypal and lost $600? I think so. But I was stupid enough to not think that someone could be using a stolen Paypal account. It was a good lesson for me to learn. I charged it to experience.

We don't need a NannyState. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what risks we want to take.

I have no problem with you pointing out that Dash had an instamine and giving your reasons why you think that will make the technology (masternode co-option), marketing, adoption, and business model less successful.

But it doesn't help if you/we think that by stopping what we perceive to be n00bs from buying Dash, by constantly yelling "scam", because we are not omniscient. And that is not production. That is just a logjam of destroying degrees-of-freedom. And we are not omniscient as evidenced by our wrong perception of the income potential in altcoins and of Bitshares' potential. Thus it is harmful to ourselves and others when we act as if we are.

You and I both should be introducing more inspiring ideas and projects than attacking other projects. It is very annoying. In spite of the fact that Vitalik's work doesn't scale and has other technical problems and they never yet worked out a viable use case, at least he was out there promoting inspirational ideas whilst you and I were like curmudgeons wasting our time trying to ferret out all the cockroaches.

The distinction is Vitalik doesn't try to control what others do. He goes out there and creates his game.

The winners in any sport don't focus on complaining about what others do. They focus on their own game.

I want to be youthful and create. Not yet ready to sit in the rocking chair and point at others because of being incapable of doing myself.

Ball and out.



Edit: and i really don't care if John Conner plagiarized Bitcoin code.  Fuck copyright (but be wary of the law). All I care is what he is producing or not producing. I don't care about an indicator of his ethics. Well feel free to share it, but I am not going to really place a high relevance on that. I will learn about his capabilities via his designs. Then i will know whether he is worthy of my attention.

You and I both want a meritocracy, but what I am saying is let's go straight to the production. Never mind the meta noise.

Of course I do. And a free market includes a free market of ideas where people can give opinions, point out problems, and criticize actions (including my own).

It does not mean that everyone is free to rip everyone else off without being called out for it.

I think you have me confused with cryptohunter. I don't think Windows binaries are that big a deal, although certainly if you are going to huge number of coins in the first hour even time spent compiling is a disadvantage. Steem didn't do that; mining was flat and there was plenty of time to figure out how to compile it (or follow the posted instructions).

Go ahead and look at my Dash instamine thread. It doesn't mention it, except to point out how Evan was offering 5000 XCO for someone to compile it shortly after launch, demonstrating that he had already mined a lot of it.


How do you know he didn't have more accounts he didn't disclose?