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Topic: Is the blockchain's purpose being redefined by the forked Ethereum Community? - page 3. (Read 3118 times)

legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
a blockchain. is just a block of data that is tethered (like a chain) to another block of data..
...

Some would argue that Satoshi didn't create the blockchain to group and chain data, but to prove a historical fact.

sorry but satoshi did infact design bitcoin where the blockheader data contained data from the previous header which made each block harder to manipulate the more blocks are created ontop of it. (more confirms=more trust)

the whole point of blockchains is that once created. its locked and the next block in the chain reinforces that lock, and so on and so on..
if you were to allow editable datasets where maybe you can change the data of something created last year.. you might aswell just have the list of unspents.. and just store some different method of verifying current balances of the unspents

some people have even thought of copying banks.. where there are clusters of people all grouped together.. like bank branches have sort codes/routing numbers to manage a certain group of bank customers balances.
where there is a hub that verifies movements and sends a batch file of "unspents" around the network so everyone has a copy of all the unspents verified by the cluster hub
that way its not a chain of data. but instead separate blocks of data not tethered to each other that can be updated at any given time

this should be something people can create as an altcoin if they want but in no way would/should it be proposed to ruin bitcoins blockchain security

I think there may be a misunderstanding.
Are you agreeing with my original post or disagreeing with it?

So you think Satoshi made the blockchain without needing something to prove first?
Or he needed something to prove and thus created the blockchain for that?

When I said he needed to prove a historical fact, I'm referring to things like previous block headers.
Technically, the Genesis block (and its blockheader) would be the first "historical fact".


sr. member
Activity: 275
Merit: 250
I believe the big test will be what does Ethereum do when the next big hack occurs. They cant hard fork every time some coins are stolen, will end up with ETC 2.0 and so on. The hard fork was a mistake and ETC is not helping things.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
a blockchain. is just a block of data that is tethered (like a chain) to another block of data..
...

Some would argue that Satoshi didn't create the blockchain to group and chain data, but to prove a historical fact.

sorry but satoshi did infact design bitcoin where the blockheader data contained data from the previous header which made each block harder to manipulate the more blocks are created ontop of it. (more confirms=more trust)

the whole point of blockchains is that once created. its locked and the next block in the chain reinforces that lock, and so on and so on..
if you were to allow editable datasets where maybe you can change the data of something created last year.. you might aswell just have the list of unspents.. and just store some different method of verifying current balances of the unspents

some people have even thought of copying banks.. where there are clusters of people all grouped together.. like bank branches have sort codes/routing numbers to manage a certain group of bank customers balances.
where there is a hub that verifies movements and sends a batch file of "unspents" around the network so everyone has a copy of all the unspents verified by the cluster hub
that way its not a chain of data. but instead separate blocks of data not tethered to each other that can be updated at any given time

this should be something people can create as an altcoin if they want but in no way would/should it be proposed to ruin bitcoins blockchain security
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
a blockchain. is just a block of data that is tethered (like a chain) to another block of data..
...

Some would argue that Satoshi didn't create the blockchain to group and chain data, but to prove a historical fact.
To prove that historical fact, he needed to use a timestamped grouping system that is verified and finalized.
If you can (or do) "change" that (or a) "historical fact" (txs) you are defeating the original intention of the innovation.
Thus, isn't that a redefining of Satoshi's blockchain?

In addition, Satoshi originally called the blockchain the "proof of work chain". Thus it is more than just groupings.
If you can edit, change, reverse, or void the proofs or work or txs, is it still a "proof of work chain"?


I think that a new term should be created for "editable blockchains".
I propose calling them "blockgates", since gates can allow access in chain fences.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
a blockchain. is just a block of data that is tethered (like a chain) to another block of data..

there are various forms of blockchains..
private blockchains
these can be internal systems by corporations where the validation is not done by mining but instead signing data (reference blockstreams Liquid)
these can be internal systems by corporations where old block data can be edited because the hashed data can be separated from the tool that validates it... EG the hashed data of segwit txdata is separate from the witness(signature) data so in a emphasis: private network that does not hold the witness data after a block is formed.. the data could be manipulated later due to lack of witness to confirm it after the fact

public blockchains
such as bitcoin, litecoin ethereum. all of with have different "scripts" to validate blocks, different block validation times and many other things. harder to manipulate because these chains are spread out via hundreds/thousands of node. and secured by multiple computations that one single person cannot normally replicate alone.
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
It didn't start with them. It started with people pushing for a hardfork in Bitcoin making the factually unsupported claim that whatever "the most" hashpower says is what happens.

The fact that Bitcoin software has _never_ worked like that (nor any altcoin that I'm aware of) hasn't phased them. Ethereum has just been running what that misunderstanding. It'll be pretty interesting to see what happens when ETC ends up with more hashpower.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
Can a blockchain be whatever your community defines it to be?

I think one of the real takeaways from this Ethereum chain split issue, is that the Ethereum HF
community has no problem changing defined terms and the original intentions of a blockchain
system. Though it is now roughly 7 years old and established within the crypto-currency world,
a blockchain may now be revised for future terminology (due to this specific type of HF).

For example this is my impression of the ETH community's current viewpoint:

1. Immutability is a choice within a blockchain, and not a inherent function.
2. In a "trustless" system, we can have human parties intervene that we trust.
3. Original social contract can change when the new social group "majority" votes to.
4. Attacks on the network are not lessons and do not improve the system, but hurt the system.
5. Support for the originally intended purpose is support for criminals, hackers, crime, theft, etc.


Maybe it is just me, but aren't those (except 4 & 5) against the intention of using a blockchain?

Can Ethereum still be a "blockchain" if it violates the reason why Satoshi had to "invent" the blockchain?

Is it possible that Ethereum HF is actually no longer a crypto-currency (or crypto-contractor)?
If not, what is it?

Vote and discuss.

(Please remember to vote in the above poll, thanks)

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UPDATE: 8/15/16 - Revisionist Wikipedia Edits Over Definition of "blockchain".
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15935700
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