Is the fall of Elon Musk's empire imminent? - page 2.

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Quote from: alani123 on October 19, 2023, 03:56:07 PM

What are your thoughts on this? Is Musk about to lose it all?

If xAI fails? Yeah, he's fucked.

He's already lost Twitter, the Boring Company, NeuralLink (two startups that have no product and are burning money), all EV companies are fighting Tesla and look likely to split the global market between them, and as for SpaceX, well... it's too early to pass judgement on it.

xAI is literally his last chance to consolidate his position and have a dominant company. Everything else is either sinking in a pile of debt or is facing serious competition. So if the other AI companies run faster than him (and he no longer has to worry about OpenAI now that Sam Altman is booted out), then he's done.

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Quote from: shinratensei_ on November 20, 2023, 08:33:28 PM

does the sattelite internet really will compete with optical fiber though?

It's a worldwide service and many countries are led by a kind of mediocre management which is not able to view more than their bank account.
Here where we live I'd pay 50$ per month which in a different region cost 30 and that by getting triple speed (the region).
My LTE connection luckily for me gives me 60+ MB/s and costs me 10$ for 20GB data.

Venezuela is blocked by starlink and it would not be 100% sure that the kit would even reach me. We have a centralised mail system.
I've lost quite a few Items so far.

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Quote from: Hispo on November 20, 2023, 06:56:04 PM

Quote from: _BlackStar on November 20, 2023, 05:33:57 PM

I'm not a huge fan of Elon Musk - but this man has a real passion for building his empire. Everything never fails, both technically and financially - even Elon, who is famous for his wealth, can go bankrupt because of his own maneuvers to control things.

Elon Musk could almost be said to have failed after acquiring Twitter - but as one of the richest people due to his assets, Elon Musk would probably be tens of steps ahead of someone who doesn't like him. I don't know what will happen next for Elon and the leadership of platform X - but he is one who doesn't give up so easily despite repeated failures.

In my opinion, one of his mistakes was to get indirectly involved in politics, perhaps he thought he has enough money so he is invincible and cannot be taken down by competitors or public officials, there is a chance he had become bored and decided to buy Twitter and start his crusade for free speech as part of his legacy, he is not stupid, so he probably expected to suffer some economical losses because of what he tries to do, but if I had to bet, I would say the money he has lost in Twitter has gone beyond his own calculations.

He won't get bankrupt easily, but it is not impossible, some Chinese company could take over the market of EV and the satellite internet network has a big competition with optical fiber.

does the sattelite internet really will compete with optical fiber though? the main reason why elon deploying his starlink because he knew that while the latency might not be great with these facilities but he can reach the most remote place therefore he quite literally could cover entire planet as his customer so long the regulation of the country allows which im sure will eventually allows it, fiber needs to be planted while satelite isn't, even though initial capital required was massive, but elon has the company that launch the satellite, also they already stated that elon already made some surplus from starlink alone that could cover other company which he owned in term of financial.
I think its a great idea that only elon could pull off since he has all the facilities, I think his empire will last long honestly, since considering he always presents good product with real use case even the most complicated product ever he could pull it off but we'll see.

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Quote from: alani123 on October 19, 2023, 03:56:07 PM

There's a lot of talk that Elon Musk taking on huge loans to buy Twitter could backfire massively on him as Twitter keeps losing value. Essentially what Elon Musk did was to use up most of his assets in terms of stock like Tesla and SpaceX to try and secure assets for his twitter loan. He's now so tied up in this Twitter debt, that if something goes wrong it could trigger a domino of effects.

So he essentially already pledged tons of money to secure loans to buy Twitter, but his executive decisions lead to massive drops in value. Late last year he posted a lot of Tesla shares to avoid a margin call from banks that had loaned him to buy Twitter but this could potentially mean that if Tesla shares fall in price also, Musk could be losing his empire... Eventually, and potentially if things go wrong, losing his position as CEO in both Twitter as well as Tesla.

What are your thoughts on this? Is Musk about to lose it all?

banks will continue to trust those who have a good reputation, we will see how big an influence Elon Musk has made, if we see all his businesses fail then we will see the collapse of his empire, but up to now all the companies he has looked after have grown as they go. time, maybe X has not shown significant profit growth, but in the next few years we will see X as the largest and most influential social media in the world, The same thing as Tesla, which can be said to be the pioneer of electric cars in many parts of the world.

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Quote from: _BlackStar on November 20, 2023, 05:33:57 PM

I'm not a huge fan of Elon Musk - but this man has a real passion for building his empire. Everything never fails, both technically and financially - even Elon, who is famous for his wealth, can go bankrupt because of his own maneuvers to control things.

Elon Musk could almost be said to have failed after acquiring Twitter - but as one of the richest people due to his assets, Elon Musk would probably be tens of steps ahead of someone who doesn't like him. I don't know what will happen next for Elon and the leadership of platform X - but he is one who doesn't give up so easily despite repeated failures.

In my opinion, one of his mistakes was to get indirectly involved in politics, perhaps he thought he has enough money so he is invincible and cannot be taken down by competitors or public officials, there is a chance he had become bored and decided to buy Twitter and start his crusade for free speech as part of his legacy, he is not stupid, so he probably expected to suffer some economical losses because of what he tries to do, but if I had to bet, I would say the money he has lost in Twitter has gone beyond his own calculations.

He won't get bankrupt easily, but it is not impossible, some Chinese company could take over the market of EV and the satellite internet network has a big competition with optical fiber.

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Quote from: alani123 on October 19, 2023, 03:56:07 PM

There's a lot of talk that Elon Musk taking on huge loans to buy Twitter could backfire massively on him as Twitter keeps losing value. Essentially what Elon Musk did was to use up most of his assets in terms of stock like Tesla and SpaceX to try and secure assets for his twitter loan. He's now so tied up in this Twitter debt, that if something goes wrong it could trigger a domino of effects.

Well who was financing that bill are the people on the list

Quote

A.M. Management & Consulting $25 million
AH Capital Management
VC firm founded by Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz $400 million
Aliya Capital Partners SpaceX investor $360 million
BAMCO Investment adviser $100 million
Binance Cryptocurrency firm $500 million
Brookfield Canadian investment firm with over $690 billion assets under management $250 million
DFJ Growth IV Partners Tesla, SolarCity, SpaceX and The Boring Company investor $100 million
Fidelity Management & Research Company Acts as the investment advisor to Fidelity's family of mutual funds $316 million
Honeycomb Asset Management Private investment firm led by Chief Investment Officer David Fiszel $5 million
Key Wealth Advisors $30 million
Lawrence J. Ellison Revocable Trust Oracle co-founder Larry Ellison's trust $1 billion
Litani Ventures Chicago-based VC firm $25 million
Qatar Holding Investment house founded by Qatar Investment Authority $375 million
Sequoia Capital Fund Invested in The Boring Company $800 million
Strauss Capital LLC - $150 million
Tresser Blvd 402 LLC (Cartenna) $8.5 million
VyCapital Invested in The Boring Company $700 million
Witkoff Capital New York-based real estate tycoon Steven Witkoff's firm $100 million
Saudi Arabian investor Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Twitter investor $1.89 billion (34,948,975 shares)

Reporting by Hyunjoo Jin in San Francisco and Chibuike

Source: https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/who-is-financing-elon-musks-44-billion-deal-buy-twitter-2022-10-07/

_BlackStar

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I'm not a huge fan of Elon Musk - but this man has a real passion for building his empire. Everything never fails, both technically and financially - even Elon, who is famous for his wealth, can go bankrupt because of his own maneuvers to control things.

Elon Musk could almost be said to have failed after acquiring Twitter - but as one of the richest people due to his assets, Elon Musk would probably be tens of steps ahead of someone who doesn't like him. I don't know what will happen next for Elon and the leadership of platform X - but he is one who doesn't give up so easily despite repeated failures.

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Quote from: alani123 on October 19, 2023, 03:56:07 PM

What are your thoughts on this? Is Musk about to lose it all?

I am not one of those who believe that Elon Musk seeks to form an empire, and even if he aspired to do so, he would not be naive and stupid. All that matters is that you must appear in the media and always appear victorious.
Elon Musk, like any other investor, is looking for profit first and foremost. It is true that he is one of the adventurous investors who has a great deal of courage to take major steps, but this does not exempt him from being wrong many times and that his decisions are not wise in everything he does. For example, I do not believe in the feasibility of the SpaceX project, and this is for the main reason that the technical obstacles cannot be overcome in a reasonable time, because it is not reasonable to invest in a project that will achieve returns, perhaps after the end of the approximate life of its owner.

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I don't think he cares about creating an empire. The only thing that matters to him is profit. Also keep in mind that he is also the CEO of spaceX which is another big foothold for him that helped him secure the loan.

Quote from: alani123 on October 19, 2023, 03:56:07 PM

What are your thoughts on this? Is Musk about to lose it all?

From all this year what i have learned about Mask is that he is a cunning businessman. He knows how to turn the table and he likes to do that publicly. The loan default you are talking about can backfire on him but the initiative he took can take twitter to a place that no other social media can reach. His idea of creating Twitter or X as a financial hub of the world can give him control over a large community. This will also boost that platform's financial revenue stream. The cut in unnecessary expenses on twitter was a warning to other employees that if you are not competitive enough, you can be fired.

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Quote from: wajik-tempe on November 20, 2023, 09:48:49 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on November 20, 2023, 03:42:06 AM

After Ilon Musk endorsed an anti-Semitic post on "his network" Twitter/X the other day, companies like Apple, IBM, Disney, Warner Brothers, Discovery, Paramount and other major advertisers...refused to advertise on his network....
Looks like the "crown" is so over Ilon's head that his brain really stopped getting oxygen

But as a result - I assume that his companies will have SIGNIFICANT problems in the near future, as well as his business partners. Whether this will be the collapse of the "Musk empire" - I am not ready to say, but the fact that these processes will definitely shake him and his companies - it is a fact....

His actions, like as taking out large loans to purchase Twitter and using his Tesla and SpaceX stock as security, have prompted worries about possible hazards, it is critical to evaluate the larger context. The stock market and commercial undertakings are inherently unpredictable, and Musk has a track record of successfully handling adversities. The current scandal surrounding his Twitter activity, as well as the consequent departure of key advertisers, may provide obstacles, but forecasting the demise of the "Musk empire" based only on these events may be premature.

This is the right place to talk about Musk's set of fails. Yes he is a talented organizer and he had good ideas. Some of them he realized and deserved applause. But everything he's been doing lately, especially in the social sphere, is crap.
The purchase of Twitter is an understandable move, given Musk's ambitions in politics. He can't be president, but he wants to get into politics. And he needs a social network... yes yes yes yes, purely for the formation and influence of "opinions and views" in the audience.

All this together, plus huge money, apparently, turned his head, and Musk decided that he was "the chosen one" and he was allowed, if not everything, then a lot more than ordinary people.

I would like him to come back to reality, otherwise his "fall from Olympus" will be painful.... And neither money nor connections will help....

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Quote from: alani123 on October 19, 2023, 03:56:07 PM

What are your thoughts on this? Is Musk about to lose it all?

I'm not thinking that way. Like you said if anything goes wrong with Tesla or SpaceX, well I don't think he will allow anything to go wrong with them at least not until he has settled the loan for X. What he needs to do is to intensify effort in those companies and that is why he is making the share value public. He is also a big hodler of btc and he is a billionaire who is able to get alot of credit from big conglomerate to keep his head above waters until he could stand again.

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Space psychos will always do something new and woo the public with their innovations. They have huge amounts under the table that we cannot even imagine which once used can develop a new company or fund companies that do their bidding. In other words, such "empires" will never fall apart but the owners will continue moving from one to another.

Instead work on your own development and not see rich people as the idol. Because they are not, they became rich in lieu of their own hard work and you can be one too if you are putting your passion at work and not being lazy.

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Quote from: mirakal on November 20, 2023, 09:46:21 AM

Elon's empire will never easily fall, not because of his wealth, but because he has this superb and brilliant ideas that will let him stay on his position. Although his high position in Twitter has already ended but I think it's part of his plan. We don't know the reality behind it but knowing Elon, he wants to keep an edge over the others and always on top of everything. And whatever he does, there's always his own motives and only him knows that.

However, despite of Elon's power and intelligence, I guess if he keeps on putting himself first more than others, that he gets to be greedy and even deceiving, his empire will definitely come to an end. But it could be years or a decade from now.

Elon Musk is undoubtedly a visionary entrepreneur with a remarkable track record of success. His companies, like Tesla, Neuralink and SpaceX, have disrupted industries with innovations. currently, on X (Twitter), he shows his starship launching which would become his biggest asset of his empire that suggests his empire keeps getting bigger and stronger.

His empire is impressive, but it is not without risks. If he is able to manage these risks effectively, he is likely to continue to be a force to be reckoned with in the business world. However, if he is not able to address these challenges, his empire could crumble. Only time will tell whether Elon musk can maintain his prominence in the ever-changing business landscape.

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Quote from: DrBeer on November 20, 2023, 03:42:06 AM

After Ilon Musk endorsed an anti-Semitic post on "his network" Twitter/X the other day, companies like Apple, IBM, Disney, Warner Brothers, Discovery, Paramount and other major advertisers...refused to advertise on his network....
Looks like the "crown" is so over Ilon's head that his brain really stopped getting oxygen

But as a result - I assume that his companies will have SIGNIFICANT problems in the near future, as well as his business partners. Whether this will be the collapse of the "Musk empire" - I am not ready to say, but the fact that these processes will definitely shake him and his companies - it is a fact....

His actions, like as taking out large loans to purchase Twitter and using his Tesla and SpaceX stock as security, have prompted worries about possible hazards, it is critical to evaluate the larger context. The stock market and commercial undertakings are inherently unpredictable, and Musk has a track record of successfully handling adversities. The current scandal surrounding his Twitter activity, as well as the consequent departure of key advertisers, may provide obstacles, but forecasting the demise of the "Musk empire" based only on these events may be premature.

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Quote from: bbigtart on October 23, 2023, 01:18:25 PM

Quote from: DeathAngel on October 19, 2023, 05:34:45 PM

I don’t think so, he’s one of the smartest guys in the world. Everything he does is meticulously planned, I don’t think he is remotely close to seeing his house of cards tumble down. Don’t forget TESLA is propped up by government subsidies. Twitter (X) will turn into a profitable business I’m sure.

I think so too, he is an intelligent person, it is impossible for him to make decisions without thinking about what will happen. Surely every decision he takes has been well thought out. For me, he may not think about money, but Elon has his own reasons for all the decisions he takes so he decides everything for new things for the future.

In my opinion, people who are already very rich prefer to have power over a platform, because the higher their power, the easier it is for them to have money. He was always considered crazy for his ideas, he definitely had a hidden purpose there.

Elon's empire will never easily fall, not because of his wealth, but because he has this superb and brilliant ideas that will let him stay on his position. Although his high position in Twitter has already ended but I think it's part of his plan. We don't know the reality behind it but knowing Elon, he wants to keep an edge over the others and always on top of everything. And whatever he does, there's always his own motives and only him knows that.

However, despite of Elon's power and intelligence, I guess if he keeps on putting himself first more than others, that he gets to be greedy and even deceiving, his empire will definitely come to an end. But it could be years or a decade from now.

DrBeer

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After Ilon Musk endorsed an anti-Semitic post on "his network" Twitter/X the other day, companies like Apple, IBM, Disney, Warner Brothers, Discovery, Paramount and other major advertisers...refused to advertise on his network....
Looks like the "crown" is so over Ilon's head that his brain really stopped getting oxygen

But as a result - I assume that his companies will have SIGNIFICANT problems in the near future, as well as his business partners. Whether this will be the collapse of the "Musk empire" - I am not ready to say, but the fact that these processes will definitely shake him and his companies - it is a fact....

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Quote from: bbigtart on October 23, 2023, 01:18:25 PM

Quote from: DeathAngel on October 19, 2023, 05:34:45 PM

I don’t think so, he’s one of the smartest guys in the world. Everything he does is meticulously planned, I don’t think he is remotely close to seeing his house of cards tumble down. Don’t forget TESLA is propped up by government subsidies. Twitter (X) will turn into a profitable business I’m sure.

I think so too, he is an intelligent person, it is impossible for him to make decisions without thinking about what will happen. Surely every decision he takes has been well thought out. For me, he may not think about money, but Elon has his own reasons for all the decisions he takes so he decides everything for new things for the future.

In my opinion, people who are already very rich prefer to have power over a platform, because the higher their power, the easier it is for them to have money. He was always considered crazy for his ideas, he definitely had a hidden purpose there.

people out there seems to forget in realizing that its not even that long before elon musk owned twitter and he has already made fortune out of this through some meticulous way of earning like giving yearly fee which was proposed not long ago but the other thing like verification badge for money already making him some money.
give him few years more he make the money back, thats just how clever elon is, not trying to overly flatter him but we know he has become such billionaire with proper reasoning, that is because he has ways to earn money.
a billionaire like him, even if he waste hundred millions of dollars he definitely has way to make it back.
after all he is an experienced person it making money. i'm sure he already has plan up his sleeve, its just waiting for moments and all that plan have something to do with making money.

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I feel that was a hypocritic obsession on him because he is been a top entrepreneur CEO of several ventures even before Twitter and his billionaire network is far greater than that amount used to purchase the web app Twitter but in some sceneros, most entrepreneurs acts technically diplomatic on undergoing higher level of risk just to make a grater count so if really he went on such a loan definitely it is going to be of two options either he makes a collateral or a deal pf agreement is reached where a certain percentage is documented to be deducted from his ventures ventures benefits with an unfailingly memo of understanding and that alone may single handedly cause him a devalue if goes contrarily by his initial plan but there is a high level of doubt that the update maybe be through.

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Quote from: JoyMarsha on October 23, 2023, 04:44:09 PM

Before buying X, Elon Musk had the intention of making enormous profits from the purchase. What we see him doing(charging everyone for the use of it) is a method for him to recoup and settle the loan he took out to buy Twitter.

He's a businessman and he certainly has to benefit from what he bought when he bought Twitter and turned it into X.
Once he owns and controls Twitter (X) then all the rules or even major changes are up to him.

But what we can see is that the big creators or influencers get paid from their interactions on Twitter (X) with a considerable amount of rewards.
Many people are interested in growing their accounts and to buy Blue Tick X Premium is currently available for purchase on the web for $8/month or $84/year, in-app on iOS for $11/month or $114.99/year.

Quote from: JoyMarsha on October 23, 2023, 04:44:09 PM

As it stands, I don't think Elon Musk cares that people are quitting X due to the payment charges. What he genuinely believes is that there will always be people willing to pay to advertise their businesses or crypto projects on X no matter what because X continues to be the best and most effective social media platform for doing so.

But the proof is in the pudding now, people are even more inclined to stay active to get paid for every interaction on X.
X is already a popular social media platform and the only one that provides great rewards for its users and freedom of speech without any censorship.

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Quote from: milewilda on October 23, 2023, 09:35:18 AM

Quote from: Smack That Ace on October 23, 2023, 05:47:55 AM

Quote from: retreat on October 23, 2023, 03:33:04 AM

It's very rare for a super billionaire like Musk to fall, of course he already had thorough financial planning before he made the acquisition of Twitter and many of his other extraordinary decisions. You know that it wasn't easy for him to get to the point he is now, he has thought of 1001 ways that we never thought of to maintain his position, and that was done not only by him, but also his financial advisors and the banks behind him. All these factors make him as strong as he is now and that is what means he won't fall, at least in the next few years, or not (?).

In business, it's normal to fail a few times with a few projects, so even if he failed with Twitter, that doesn't mean the rest of Elon's companies or his empire will collapse. The social network Twitter is facing many difficulties and we cannot deny that, but for it to collapse there is still a long way to go and we should not rush to any conclusions.

Losing business for several years is very normal for large businesses, so I see that sometimes many people are pessimistic or laugh at the difficulties that Twitter is facing, as if they have never done business before or do not have business knowledge.

People do really love on being conclusive on which they would really be making out generalization and assume out that if they fail one of their business then it would really be failing all. They arent the ones who are in his shoes on making out those kind of claims that he would really be losing it all. Just like been said that its impossible that he wont really be having some back up plans if ever there's one that would be fail.
Debt is common and even billionaires does have it and we know that having debt doesnt mean that you are already that in verge of bankruptcy. Only true investors or business minded person does really know on whats the advantage that you could really be able to get on having debts.(Long explanation).

If he ever have those debt problems then just let him be on resolving that.There's no point on trying out to elaborate about with those obvious problems. He bought twitter then its just right that he would really be
applying on the changes that he does have in mind whether it would really be that making some bad effects on the company or not. He do knows the risks and he wont be called
or achieved on being billionaire for nothing. He do knows on taking decisions and what are the risks behind it.

For a top billionaire like Elon, every decision is made with very careful calculation. He never makes impulsive decisions like normal people like us, so I believe he is aware of the risks he will take when trying to completely change TW to his liking. But the funny thing is that there are a lot of people here who always say that he is stupid, sabotaging TW...laughing at him. Freedom of speech is a good thing, but we should know who we are, where we stand and what successes we have achieved...If we still work as hired laborers and don't have enough to eat, then don't try to teach rich people how to make money.

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