Is the HDD mining hype over? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Abiky

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Quote from: FP91G on December 16, 2022, 05:45:55 AM

What do you think will happen if the price of the CHIA coin rises to 200-300 dollars? The number of miners will increase, the hashrate will increase, and new miners will mine on pools, and not play with luck in solo mining. As a result, solo mining will be possible only for large miners, and not for home miners with a couple of dozen hard drives.

Probably. But I wouldn't count on CHIA going up in price anytime soon, unless developers come up with something big for the project. Investors aren't that interested in HDD-mineable coins anymore. You can see why coins that are mineable with ASICs and GPUs are at the top ranks in market cap these days. Even PoS coins are getting traction (although they're extremely centralized).

At the end, HDD mining will only become a niche for those who're willing to waste large amounts of time and money just to support a blockchain network. At least, we have a variety of options to choose from. Who knows what would be of CHIA and BURST in the future? Just my opinion

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Quote from: Abiky on December 15, 2022, 11:25:19 AM

Quote from: FP91G on December 14, 2022, 06:09:21 AM

CHIA mining can also be decentralized, because according to the miners there is now a huge payback period for equipment that exceeds the average life of hard drives. If this coin becomes popular, then it will be captured by centralized pools very quickly.

I just hope centralized pools don't take over the HDD mining industry, as that would make it much harder for the average Joe to mine at home using their old drives. Pools would effectively make solo mining pointless. We're going to have to see if developers are willing to make decentralized solutions such as P2Pool and Betterhash work on HDD-mineable coins like CHIA and BURST. But I doubt they will do anything about it, since HDD-mineable coins aren't that popular on the market. I've read something about "mineable tokens" on the ETH blockchain (eg: 0xBitcoin), so maybe we'll see HDD-mineable tokens built on ETH soon.

At least, we aren't stuck with just GPU, ASIC, CPU, and FPGA mining. As long as there are many options to choose from, nothing else matters. Just my thoughts Grin

What do you think will happen if the price of the CHIA coin rises to 200-300 dollars? The number of miners will increase, the hashrate will increase, and new miners will mine on pools, and not play with luck in solo mining. As a result, solo mining will be possible only for large miners, and not for home miners with a couple of dozen hard drives.

Abiky

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Quote from: FP91G on December 14, 2022, 06:09:21 AM

CHIA mining can also be decentralized, because according to the miners there is now a huge payback period for equipment that exceeds the average life of hard drives. If this coin becomes popular, then it will be captured by centralized pools very quickly.

I just hope centralized pools don't take over the HDD mining industry, as that would make it much harder for the average Joe to mine at home using their old drives. Pools would effectively make solo mining pointless. We're going to have to see if developers are willing to make decentralized solutions such as P2Pool and Betterhash work on HDD-mineable coins like CHIA and BURST. But I doubt they will do anything about it, since HDD-mineable coins aren't that popular on the market. I've read something about "mineable tokens" on the ETH blockchain (eg: 0xBitcoin), so maybe we'll see HDD-mineable tokens built on ETH soon.

At least, we aren't stuck with just GPU, ASIC, CPU, and FPGA mining. As long as there are many options to choose from, nothing else matters. Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: Abiky on December 07, 2022, 07:41:53 PM

Quote from: FP91G on November 30, 2022, 03:51:56 AM

Do you really believe in decentralized mining? Decentralized mining is solo mining, which was in 2010-2012, but when mining pools and adequate profits appeared, many private companies begin to make money on it. And its main goal is to maximize profits.

Yes. I still believe in decentralized mining. While centralized mining pools have take over the Bitcoin blockchain, there are some solutions available to help make mining as decentralized as possible (stratum v2 mining protocol, betterhash, P2Pool, etc). I think this would work better with CPU-mineable coins since they're highly accessible to everyone. All it takes is for developers to push decentralized mining solutions for the community to adopt them.

As for coins that can be mined with HDDs, I don't think there's going to be a bright future for them. As many have mentioned, HDDs cannot be resold on the market unlike ASICs, GPUs, CPUs, and FPGAs. That's because nobody buys them due to loss of the storage medium's reliability, among many other things. It's why HDD-mineable coins like BURST and CHIA will only become a niche in the long run. At least, we have a variety of mining algorithms to choose from. As long as decentralization wins, there should be nothing to worry about. Just my thoughts Grin

CHIA mining can also be decentralized, because according to the miners there is now a huge payback period for equipment that exceeds the average life of hard drives. If this coin becomes popular, then it will be captured by centralized pools very quickly.

Abiky

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Quote from: FP91G on November 30, 2022, 03:51:56 AM

Do you really believe in decentralized mining? Decentralized mining is solo mining, which was in 2010-2012, but when mining pools and adequate profits appeared, many private companies begin to make money on it. And its main goal is to maximize profits.

Yes. I still believe in decentralized mining. While centralized mining pools have take over the Bitcoin blockchain, there are some solutions available to help make mining as decentralized as possible (stratum v2 mining protocol, betterhash, P2Pool, etc). I think this would work better with CPU-mineable coins since they're highly accessible to everyone. All it takes is for developers to push decentralized mining solutions for the community to adopt them.

As for coins that can be mined with HDDs, I don't think there's going to be a bright future for them. As many have mentioned, HDDs cannot be resold on the market unlike ASICs, GPUs, CPUs, and FPGAs. That's because nobody buys them due to loss of the storage medium's reliability, among many other things. It's why HDD-mineable coins like BURST and CHIA will only become a niche in the long run. At least, we have a variety of mining algorithms to choose from. As long as decentralization wins, there should be nothing to worry about. Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: adaseb on November 30, 2022, 03:26:01 PM

I think starting HDD mining a few years back to mine BURST was the worst mining decision, ever. Even worse than buying some obsolete ASICs.

Basically I would go on eBay/Craigslist/etc and buy the best deals on HDD. Bought tons and tons of these drives and by the time I was ready the profits started to plummet. No big deal I assumed? I assumed just like GPUs and ASICs I can just sell it back and get back maybe 50%-75% of my money, no not the case.

You don't realise it but almost nobody buys regular HDD second hand. Still got a bunch of them laying around. These days you can buy a 128GB flash drive for like $10-20 so why would you buy some old HDD for around the same price? Still got a bunch of them laying around. Maybe will take them apart and use the strong rare earth magnets to hang stuff on my fridge.

I already said about my bad choice of mining with HDDs, but I forgot this super important fact about the used HHDs or SSDs, nobody buys used stuff to data storage, it's "cheap" to buy new hardware and safer.
The reselling factor of HDDs is almost zero at least in my country, or people offers like 50% of what are you asking.
GPUs was/is easy to resell, never had any trouble to find a buyer, but I have some HDDs here.

My solution is to use them to work, sell to my friends whem they are going to buy a PC, and use them to keep my data. At least I have HDDs and SSDs for at least 5 years Cheesy

But HDD mining was my worst decision when comes to mining, even CPU mining was better than HDD because I can sell CPU easily too, like GPUs.

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Quote from: adaseb on December 02, 2022, 01:43:30 PM

ETH main net launched I think in Aug 2015 and when it launched it pumped hard for a couple of weeks, miners made lots of money. However then it started to die off. I don't remember what the price was but towards the end of the year, I think with a R9 280X GPU (top mining gpu at the time) you made like 1 ETH per day per 280X.

However it seemed like great profits but it was mostly mining at a loss. I think ETH briefly dipped below $1 a coin when all the IPO people dumped their coins. However later it started to recover and in early 2016, it became more profitable than BTC ASIC mining... and the rest is history.

The best ones were Radeon HD 7990 heaters

We then underestimated the ethereum and sold these coins at the market price. But now it's history. I remember mining ethereum with 2gb R9 370 graphics cards because they were very cold and had many advantages over R9 280X.

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Quote from: adaseb on December 02, 2022, 01:43:30 PM

ETH main net launched I think in Aug 2015 and when it launched it pumped hard for a couple of weeks, miners made lots of money. However then it started to die off. I don't remember what the price was but towards the end of the year, I think with a R9 280X GPU (top mining gpu at the time) you made like 1 ETH per day per 280X.

However it seemed like great profits but it was mostly mining at a loss. I think ETH briefly dipped below $1 a coin when all the IPO people dumped their coins. However later it started to recover and in early 2016, it became more profitable than BTC ASIC mining... and the rest is history.

Sounds exactly like the start of ETHW starting at over 100 dollars and going down to 3 dollars but it is not recovering yet as I believe it needs a couple of months to see where the team behind it wants to go,as long as they offer the same options that ETH offered I think big things await us but so far 0 pronunciation from the team behind it except that we know they are some anonymous miners from China so far,not the best of the start but hey the chain they will continue mining hopefully will be embraced and we can have a history 2.0 that repeats for this coin.

adaseb

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ETH main net launched I think in Aug 2015 and when it launched it pumped hard for a couple of weeks, miners made lots of money. However then it started to die off. I don't remember what the price was but towards the end of the year, I think with a R9 280X GPU (top mining gpu at the time) you made like 1 ETH per day per 280X.

However it seemed like great profits but it was mostly mining at a loss. I think ETH briefly dipped below $1 a coin when all the IPO people dumped their coins. However later it started to recover and in early 2016, it became more profitable than BTC ASIC mining... and the rest is history.

FP91G

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Quote from: adaseb on December 01, 2022, 02:52:51 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 01, 2022, 03:57:14 AM

I heard about mining BURST in 2016 and some of my friends made good money mining this coin. But I tried to mine only on video cards because of the large number of coins for mining. The advantages of mining on HDD are only in very low power consumption and a good opportunity for a hobby.

From what I recall, back in 2015 we were in a GPU and ASIC bear market. Unless you had very cheap power, you were barely making anything. So Burst was gaining popularity. However the issue was that the price for the coin was very low.

Later on it ended up spiking and would of made good profits for every HDD miner that held. However if you mined and sold your coins at the end of the week, the profits weren't that great.

I remember well 2015 when Ethereum mining started. At that time, miners bought video cards for ethereum mining, because at the end of the year the payback of a video card was about 7 months, and electricity was more than 2 times cheaper compared to today.

adaseb

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Quote from: FP91G on December 01, 2022, 03:57:14 AM

I heard about mining BURST in 2016 and some of my friends made good money mining this coin. But I tried to mine only on video cards because of the large number of coins for mining. The advantages of mining on HDD are only in very low power consumption and a good opportunity for a hobby.

From what I recall, back in 2015 we were in a GPU and ASIC bear market. Unless you had very cheap power, you were barely making anything. So Burst was gaining popularity. However the issue was that the price for the coin was very low.

Later on it ended up spiking and would of made good profits for every HDD miner that held. However if you mined and sold your coins at the end of the week, the profits weren't that great.

FP91G

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I heard about mining BURST in 2016 and some of my friends made good money mining this coin. But I tried to mine only on video cards because of the large number of coins for mining. The advantages of mining on HDD are only in very low power consumption and a good opportunity for a hobby.

adaseb

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I think starting HDD mining a few years back to mine BURST was the worst mining decision, ever. Even worse than buying some obsolete ASICs.

Basically I would go on eBay/Craigslist/etc and buy the best deals on HDD. Bought tons and tons of these drives and by the time I was ready the profits started to plummet. No big deal I assumed? I assumed just like GPUs and ASICs I can just sell it back and get back maybe 50%-75% of my money, no not the case.

You don't realise it but almost nobody buys regular HDD second hand. Still got a bunch of them laying around. These days you can buy a 128GB flash drive for like $10-20 so why would you buy some old HDD for around the same price? Still got a bunch of them laying around. Maybe will take them apart and use the strong rare earth magnets to hang stuff on my fridge.

FP91G

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Quote from: Abiky on November 28, 2022, 08:00:24 PM

Quote from: FP91G on November 23, 2022, 04:19:44 AM

Will Google or Amazon abandon their obligations to partners in order to mine the CHIA coin?
If the majority of CHIA miners belong to Google or Amazon, then this will become known and investors will sell this coin, which will result in big losses for large companies.

Probably. But they could always mine CHIA in secret, leaving investors in the dark. These companies have a lot of money and power, so the sky is the limit for them. HDD mining isn't as popular as ASIC or GPU mining, so people wouldn't care if CHIA or any other HHD-mineable coin becomes extremely centralized in the future. At least, the idea is there. Making it a success is another story.

Maybe someday we'd get to see an improved version of CHIA that would bring equality to all miners on the Blockchain? If this happens, then HDD mining would become truly decentralized. I was thinking something like a hybrid approach where the coin could be mined with HDDs, as well as, CPUs. It would be something similar to Digibyte with a multi-algorithm PoW consensus mechanism built onto the protocol. The sky is the limit, so anything's possible. Just my opinion

Do you really believe in decentralized mining? Decentralized mining is solo mining, which was in 2010-2012, but when mining pools and adequate profits appeared, many private companies begin to make money on it. And its main goal is to maximize profits.

Abiky

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Quote from: FP91G on November 23, 2022, 04:19:44 AM

Will Google or Amazon abandon their obligations to partners in order to mine the CHIA coin?
If the majority of CHIA miners belong to Google or Amazon, then this will become known and investors will sell this coin, which will result in big losses for large companies.

Probably. But they could always mine CHIA in secret, leaving investors in the dark. These companies have a lot of money and power, so the sky is the limit for them. HDD mining isn't as popular as ASIC or GPU mining, so people wouldn't care if CHIA or any other HHD-mineable coin becomes extremely centralized in the future. At least, the idea is there. Making it a success is another story.

Maybe someday we'd get to see an improved version of CHIA that would bring equality to all miners on the Blockchain? If this happens, then HDD mining would become truly decentralized. I was thinking something like a hybrid approach where the coin could be mined with HDDs, as well as, CPUs. It would be something similar to Digibyte with a multi-algorithm PoW consensus mechanism built onto the protocol. The sky is the limit, so anything's possible. Just my opinion

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Quote from: Abiky on November 21, 2022, 08:23:38 PM

Quote from: rdluffy on November 18, 2022, 01:54:54 PM

I remembered the coin I used to mine before Chia, it's MASS: https://massnet.org/en/
The coin is available to trade in MEXC or Huobi for example, but I didn't know anything about the roadmap, news etc

In my opinion, it's not lack of HDD minable coins, or lack of interest by the public, it's more about which problem the coin will solve? Why not choose any other available coin?

HDD mining in theory is awesome, less power to consume, easy to get HDDs (more decentralized), but the coin need a solid project, need to solve a real world problem.

It's all about utility. There are so many coins on the market, but only a few provide real use cases to the world. HDD-mineable coins are no different. I've never heard about MASS until you've mentioned it now. I'm going to have to do a little research on it to see if it's worth it. Still, no other coin compares with Chia as it's the most profitable HDD coin to mine right now (if I'm not mistaken). Some would say HDD-mineable coins are more decentralized than ASIC-mineable coins, but that depends on how the network is structured.

I think HDD mining could pose a higher risk of centralization as data centers usually have a large number of HDDs at their disposal. Imagine if Google, or even Amazon takes control of an HDD-mineable coin with their huge storage space. It would've been a complete disaster. I don't think they will be able to manage to acquire large numbers of ASICs, as such devices are usually more expensive than ordinary HDDs. The industry is just starting to blossom, so I'm hopeful developers would come up with a solution to make HDD mining more decentralized. That is if the hype goes back up again.

Since Amazon and Google never showed any interest when the HDD mining was at their peak I doubt that they are thinking now to jump in to this mining,their datacenters and specifically their devices are being used for much better things than mining some low value coins like Chia now or Burst before.The mining depends completely on the GPU and ASIC devices and coins mineable on such devices,if these are successful and are doing well normally these can be considered as a factor to revive HDD mining but unfortunately we did not see such thing even when GPU mining was at our peak in the year 2021,even then HDD mining didn't manage to get the hype back,so most likely won't do now or in the near future,so I exclude a Google or Amazon and their datacenters involvement into this.

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Quote from: Abiky on November 21, 2022, 08:23:38 PM

It's all about utility. There are so many coins on the market, but only a few provide real use cases to the world. HDD-mineable coins are no different. I've never heard about MASS until you've mentioned it now. I'm going to have to do a little research on it to see if it's worth it. Still, no other coin compares with Chia as it's the most profitable HDD coin to mine right now (if I'm not mistaken). Some would say HDD-mineable coins are more decentralized than ASIC-mineable coins, but that depends on how the network is structured.

I think HDD mining could pose a higher risk of centralization as data centers usually have a large number of HDDs at their disposal. Imagine if Google, or even Amazon takes control of an HDD-mineable coin with their huge storage space. It would've been a complete disaster. I don't think they will be able to manage to acquire large numbers of ASICs, as such devices are usually more expensive than ordinary HDDs. The industry is just starting to blossom, so I'm hopeful developers would come up with a solution to make HDD mining more decentralized. That is if the hype goes back up again.

Will Google or Amazon abandon their obligations to partners in order to mine the CHIA coin?
If the majority of CHIA miners belong to Google or Amazon, then this will become known and investors will sell this coin, which will result in big losses for large companies.

Abiky

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Quote from: rdluffy on November 18, 2022, 01:54:54 PM

I remembered the coin I used to mine before Chia, it's MASS: https://massnet.org/en/
The coin is available to trade in MEXC or Huobi for example, but I didn't know anything about the roadmap, news etc

In my opinion, it's not lack of HDD minable coins, or lack of interest by the public, it's more about which problem the coin will solve? Why not choose any other available coin?

HDD mining in theory is awesome, less power to consume, easy to get HDDs (more decentralized), but the coin need a solid project, need to solve a real world problem.

It's all about utility. There are so many coins on the market, but only a few provide real use cases to the world. HDD-mineable coins are no different. I've never heard about MASS until you've mentioned it now. I'm going to have to do a little research on it to see if it's worth it. Still, no other coin compares with Chia as it's the most profitable HDD coin to mine right now (if I'm not mistaken). Some would say HDD-mineable coins are more decentralized than ASIC-mineable coins, but that depends on how the network is structured.

I think HDD mining could pose a higher risk of centralization as data centers usually have a large number of HDDs at their disposal. Imagine if Google, or even Amazon takes control of an HDD-mineable coin with their huge storage space. It would've been a complete disaster. I don't think they will be able to manage to acquire large numbers of ASICs, as such devices are usually more expensive than ordinary HDDs. The industry is just starting to blossom, so I'm hopeful developers would come up with a solution to make HDD mining more decentralized. That is if the hype goes back up again.

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Quote from: rdluffy on November 18, 2022, 01:54:54 PM

In my opinion, it's not lack of HDD minable coins, or lack of interest by the public, it's more about which problem the coin will solve? Why not choose any other available coin?

The problem the coin solves doesn't matter much anyway, since most of these coins are just copycats or base their "problem-solving" on features that major coins like Bitcoin are said to luck.

Numbers do a lot. Have you noticed how shitcoins pump in price for no reason except that everyone is just hyping them?

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Quote from: Abiky on November 16, 2022, 08:32:13 PM

This usually happens when a new coin is launched. Hype spreads like crazy, pumping the cryptocurrency's price to the moon. But after a few months, you will see prices going down due to loss of interest among the general public. It happened with Zcash when it traded well above $1.3k per coin, only to go all the way down to less than $50. What makes you think Chia would be any different? It seems to me that HDD mining's popularity is declining, when there are a lot of coins which can be mined via the use of ASICs and GPUs.

As far as I know, both Chia and Burst are the only coins in existence which can be mined with a HDD. I guess that's why there's not a lot of interest in mining them. If only developers made more HDD-mineable coins things would've been different. Not only HDDs are more accessible than GPUs or ASIC, but they're cheaper too (depending on the type of HDD, of course). At least, the two coins (Chia and Burst) are still alive. Who knows if someone decides to create a new fork out of these projects to revive the hype? Just my thoughts Grin

I remembered the coin I used to mine before Chia, it's MASS: https://massnet.org/en/
The coin is available to trade in MEXC or Huobi for example, but I didn't know anything about the roadmap, news etc

In my opinion, it's not lack of HDD minable coins, or lack of interest by the public, it's more about which problem the coin will solve? Why not choose any other available coin?

HDD mining in theory is awesome, less power to consume, easy to get HDDs (more decentralized), but the coin need a solid project, need to solve a real world problem.

Topic: Is the HDD mining hype over? (Read 770 times)