things to remember
when a friend gives you $10, no one claims it on their tax return.
when a friend gives you a coffee or a sandwich, no one claims it on their tax return.
point being, dont sweat the small stuff.
as for purchasing large products. (over $600 threshold) then read the IRS details about how to log it. or go speak to an accountant. i have read many threads where people are going nuts worrying about logging the little things like buying a starbucks coffee, which i find very amusing whilst face palming them
oh and another point. you dont pay tax until the point you have FIAT in your hand. so dont think that if bitcoin rose from $450 to $470 in one day that you need to send a payment to IRS at every price movement, simply because your holding coin instead of spending..
point being... its not a gain or loss until its FIAT!!
Topic: Is the IRS ruling final? Where is the legal / technical analysis? - page 3. (Read 4243 times)
April 04, 2014, 10:40:22 PM
April 04, 2014, 10:33:08 PM
Final yes. Also powerless and impossible to effectively enforce.
Enforcement lies at the bank account level.
My $.02.
April 04, 2014, 10:32:20 PM
Final yes. Also powerless and impossible to effectively enforce.
April 04, 2014, 10:30:30 PM
I don't know what planet you live on but here on Earth (in the Solar System, Milky Way, uptown Virgo Supercluster) there is no such thing as a final rule made by governments.
Governments here always change the rules by which to play whenever they feel like. That is an integral part of their nature and that's why it is not reasonable to worry about their rulings too much.
Joe
How true!
Thank you for your insightful and well-thought-out post!
My $.02.
April 04, 2014, 10:10:51 PM
I don't know what planet you live on but here on Earth (in the Solar System, Milky Way, uptown Virgo Supercluster) there is no such thing as a final rule made by governments.
Governments here always change the rules by which to play whenever they feel like. That is an integral part of their nature and that's why it is not reasonable to worry about their rulings too much.
Joe
April 04, 2014, 09:58:20 PM
Hi everyone
A few questions regarding the IRS ruling.
1. Is is final? i.e., when they ask for comments/questions does that mean they are seeking feedback on their initial view?
2. Where is the technical analysis to support the position that it is property and not a currency? The paper itself is cursory and contains almost no legal analysis to support the conclusion.
3. Can US taxpayers take a position it is currency and fight it out in the courts? i.e., I would think the IRS is not the arbiter of whether virtual currencies are property or not. It is a legal question rather than a decision to be made by the IRS?
I am a tax professional (outside the US) and would be very willing to assist in making submissions regarding this. The ruling is obviously not a good outcome and without seeing any legal analysis seems contrived to argue this is "property".
'A few questions regarding the IRS ruling.
1. Is is final? i.e., when they ask for comments/questions does that mean they are seeking feedback on their initial view?
2. Where is the technical analysis to support the position that it is property and not a currency? The paper itself is cursory and contains almost no legal analysis to support the conclusion.
3. Can US taxpayers take a position it is currency and fight it out in the courts? i.e., I would think the IRS is not the arbiter of whether virtual currencies are property or not. It is a legal question rather than a decision to be made by the IRS?
I am a tax professional (outside the US) and would be very willing to assist in making submissions regarding this. The ruling is obviously not a good outcome and without seeing any legal analysis seems contrived to argue this is "property".
yep i was told it was ....so.....me i only have 16k gross profit from btc from last year on 1 blockchain that is linked to bitstamp and coindesk and also
them nice forms i signed when i sent knc $$$ wire xfer over 10k saying i was not doing so for tax evading purpposes etc (i remember that line) of
course since cancelled the knc orders...but still one heck of a paper trail with the 2 fails at 1 bank the 1st time around
so yeah paying the tax folks in usa i am.....should never have registered stuff with bitstamp they also said when i registered it was to conform with
usa banking laws....so the fact i've thrown around 20-30k of bank wire xfers to knc (and since refunded this year) and the above
i'd be easy pickings imho for the IRS
yep...paying my taxes...but supposedly with equip etc home business etc i'll break even
with only mining and holding of all the btc coin i've ever made on one linked blockchain....and the wire xfers etc...i'd be dead meat in an audit
for the 25% taxes at worse on a 16k profit? i'll expense it out put it on taxes
got too much other real $$$ I could lose (or jail time) by playing the opposite
also imho this won't be fixed till after fall 2014 elections in the usa....the gov't is split on how to treat bitcoins
again imho
Searing
April 04, 2014, 09:49:01 PM
Here is a relevant quote from Business Insider:
http://www.businessinsider.com/irs-bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-full-release-2014-3
http://www.businessinsider.com/irs-bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-full-release-2014-3
Quote
"Users will have to track their transactions and determine the amount of their taxable gain each time," he told BI in an email. "It's quite a burden. The rules on taxing foreign currency provide an exception for 'personal transactions' for that very reason. It would be great to have that exception (or something similar) apply to bitcoins as well."
But Cross adds the IRS' guidance may not stand forever. The Treasury Department should now begin developing formal regulations tailored to digital currencies.
"That typically begins with a request for public comments, which was included in the notice," he said. "Tax professionals can then identify issues and advocate possible solutions. So between now and the issuance of actual regulations (which takes years), there's ample opportunity to shape the tax treatment."
But Cross adds the IRS' guidance may not stand forever. The Treasury Department should now begin developing formal regulations tailored to digital currencies.
"That typically begins with a request for public comments, which was included in the notice," he said. "Tax professionals can then identify issues and advocate possible solutions. So between now and the issuance of actual regulations (which takes years), there's ample opportunity to shape the tax treatment."
April 04, 2014, 09:40:34 PM
We would pay more taxes if it was considered a currency. No need to help welfare/social security any more than necessary.
April 04, 2014, 08:41:37 PM
Hi everyone
A few questions regarding the IRS ruling.
1. Is is final? i.e., when they ask for comments/questions does that mean they are seeking feedback on their initial view?
2. Where is the technical analysis to support the position that it is property and not a currency? The paper itself is cursory and contains almost no legal analysis to support the conclusion.
3. Can US taxpayers take a position it is currency and fight it out in the courts? i.e., I would think the IRS is not the arbiter of whether virtual currencies are property or not. It is a legal question rather than a decision to be made by the IRS?
I am a tax professional (outside the US) and would be very willing to assist in making submissions regarding this. The ruling is obviously not a good outcome and without seeing any legal analysis seems contrived to argue this is "property".
A few questions regarding the IRS ruling.
1. Is is final? i.e., when they ask for comments/questions does that mean they are seeking feedback on their initial view?
2. Where is the technical analysis to support the position that it is property and not a currency? The paper itself is cursory and contains almost no legal analysis to support the conclusion.
3. Can US taxpayers take a position it is currency and fight it out in the courts? i.e., I would think the IRS is not the arbiter of whether virtual currencies are property or not. It is a legal question rather than a decision to be made by the IRS?
I am a tax professional (outside the US) and would be very willing to assist in making submissions regarding this. The ruling is obviously not a good outcome and without seeing any legal analysis seems contrived to argue this is "property".
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