https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SAi_b3umCcFJO2dMoLYjWCjNz1JhOLWrsRHhYQK-nb8/edit?usp=sharing
the above stats provided by r1s2g3
very interesting to see certain things there.
I would also like to see merits removed from those given by the top 300, 400, 500,1000 and merits that were given in the meta section removed just to see what the lists would look like.
It is already clear posting on the alt discussion board (main board for those arriving and discussing) is basically a waste of time if you want to receive merit.
That list does have a slight output error but just 1 position out on the left hand side list.
Topic: IS THE MERIT SYSTEM being used correctly by a small clique of individuals here (Read 1314 times)
November 13, 2018, 12:12:10 PM
November 12, 2018, 01:17:08 PM
I see your point OP, getting 1 merit for newbie is a challenge and we must leave that way for the starters to earn recognition and acknowledgement from the merit source. However, once they earn merit it will just leave like that stuck up with the current rank. I have seen some Jr. member good posters in the forum and that are active in meta section that does always contribute their valuable ideas every time a newbie posted a thread to earn merit. Those users must be motivated to share more on their ideas by awarding merit probably or some sort of encouragement through replies.
Only 1 merit and 30 activity needed for a newbie to rank up to a jr. member rank. But, after ranking up to jr. member later on the problem in getting another 10 merit to rank up to member would be harder. I was just lucky that merit source has provided me enough merit to rank up to member. But then, I stuck in this rank. Anyway, being a member is already enough to be part of the forum but it is more good when I could wear that Avatar one day.
I think for good posts we do not need motivation. There should be a friendly crypto community, then the discussions will be interesting and then an atmosphere will emerge that will contribute to the mutual exchange of useful information. Only 1 merit and 30 activity needed for a newbie to rank up to a jr. member rank. But, after ranking up to jr. member later on the problem in getting another 10 merit to rank up to member would be harder. I was just lucky that merit source has provided me enough merit to rank up to member. But then, I stuck in this rank. Anyway, being a member is already enough to be part of the forum but it is more good when I could wear that Avatar one day.
November 12, 2018, 06:20:06 AM
@DdmrDdmr
I think you forgot to turn the figure into percentage (100 /150 000) *100 -> 0,067% … Arguably the best posters will at some point merit some of the other best posters, since that is what merit is about: meriting decent content, and that content is likely generated by … surprise .. the best posters.
Ah yes thanks for correcting that.
The 0.067 would at some point merit the 0.067 but already we know that 33% of their merits are received within that group and sent could be even larger (although as you say could be smaller)
Not sure about the best posters since that is a very hard thing to determine.
For sure what is the best post to one person is not to another. You could quite possibly have a conversation with some far lower merit holders and find it was much easier to achieve a non biased logical consensus based upon observable events. One could even reason a poster that has prevented many scams is the best poster in a different way. I have recently seen some members falling back on quoting their merit score to claim their argument held more weight. This is certainly not something I depend too heavily on. I have seen some claim it proves more worth. Again it can not be used that way imho.
A person with very low merit and indeed rank could spot clues that a project was a scam and highlight this saving investors millions upon millions of dollars and even if their post was lacking in every aspect except to provide this insight it could be reasoned it was more valuable to this community and to crypto in general than all the highest merit posters combined (excluding satoshi and a couple of others of course). Perhaps it can be used though to state you would be statistically highly probable to provide what many others consider to be a post they can agree with and consider good/worthy of merit. Perhaps I being too negative but still merit is not a complete guide to locating the best posters. For sure though if we are being sensible it would be a short cut to locating posters generally worth hearing from.
The overall merit per post on the Bitcoin Discussion I calculated back in July 2018 (a bit has rained since then though) was 0,033/post. For Altcoin Discussion it was 0,009/post. So the ratio is 3,67 times better in the Bitcoin Discussion section compared to the Altcoin Discussion. Nevertheless, the chance factor is not a random lottery equal opportunity based, since each post’s chances depend on many factors, being content one of the core ones. I think there is much more spam in the Altcoin section than the Bitcoin section, which drags the ratio down for the Altcoin section.
Yes I agree with with everything else you said in your post as it seems to make logical sense.
I agree content should certainly be one of the cores ones. To me it should be the only one really.
However, having only been to meta a few times in many years here (perhaps 4x) before this recent period in the last few days. I would estimate 99% of my total posts or greater I have made on the alt boards... since visiting meta it is much easier to give out merits to people that are very helpful and such and without intending to your given merits are soon going to a small group people. It reminds me of the alt board a few years back but sadly here you tend to find a far far higher proportion of nitpicking ass kissing overly pc people since it is the main place to come and report perceived wrong doing in the hope of some recognition (and of course reporting of real dangerous scammers too ). Of course reporting serious wrong doing, scamming in its various guises is very much needed but the overly pc and ass kissing to perceived authority figures is spoiling it and sucks away from genuine flow of sensible conversation. It's a shame everyone seems to have retreated here from the alt boards and not to the serious discussion board so logical reasonable threads need not get contaminated by overly pc unreasonable ass kissers.
I think you forgot to turn the figure into percentage (100 /150 000) *100 -> 0,067% … Arguably the best posters will at some point merit some of the other best posters, since that is what merit is about: meriting decent content, and that content is likely generated by … surprise .. the best posters.
Ah yes thanks for correcting that.
The 0.067 would at some point merit the 0.067 but already we know that 33% of their merits are received within that group and sent could be even larger (although as you say could be smaller)
Not sure about the best posters since that is a very hard thing to determine.
For sure what is the best post to one person is not to another. You could quite possibly have a conversation with some far lower merit holders and find it was much easier to achieve a non biased logical consensus based upon observable events. One could even reason a poster that has prevented many scams is the best poster in a different way. I have recently seen some members falling back on quoting their merit score to claim their argument held more weight. This is certainly not something I depend too heavily on. I have seen some claim it proves more worth. Again it can not be used that way imho.
A person with very low merit and indeed rank could spot clues that a project was a scam and highlight this saving investors millions upon millions of dollars and even if their post was lacking in every aspect except to provide this insight it could be reasoned it was more valuable to this community and to crypto in general than all the highest merit posters combined (excluding satoshi and a couple of others of course). Perhaps it can be used though to state you would be statistically highly probable to provide what many others consider to be a post they can agree with and consider good/worthy of merit. Perhaps I being too negative but still merit is not a complete guide to locating the best posters. For sure though if we are being sensible it would be a short cut to locating posters generally worth hearing from.
The overall merit per post on the Bitcoin Discussion I calculated back in July 2018 (a bit has rained since then though) was 0,033/post. For Altcoin Discussion it was 0,009/post. So the ratio is 3,67 times better in the Bitcoin Discussion section compared to the Altcoin Discussion. Nevertheless, the chance factor is not a random lottery equal opportunity based, since each post’s chances depend on many factors, being content one of the core ones. I think there is much more spam in the Altcoin section than the Bitcoin section, which drags the ratio down for the Altcoin section.
Yes I agree with with everything else you said in your post as it seems to make logical sense.
I agree content should certainly be one of the cores ones. To me it should be the only one really.
However, having only been to meta a few times in many years here (perhaps 4x) before this recent period in the last few days. I would estimate 99% of my total posts or greater I have made on the alt boards... since visiting meta it is much easier to give out merits to people that are very helpful and such and without intending to your given merits are soon going to a small group people. It reminds me of the alt board a few years back but sadly here you tend to find a far far higher proportion of nitpicking ass kissing overly pc people since it is the main place to come and report perceived wrong doing in the hope of some recognition (and of course reporting of real dangerous scammers too ). Of course reporting serious wrong doing, scamming in its various guises is very much needed but the overly pc and ass kissing to perceived authority figures is spoiling it and sucks away from genuine flow of sensible conversation. It's a shame everyone seems to have retreated here from the alt boards and not to the serious discussion board so logical reasonable threads need not get contaminated by overly pc unreasonable ass kissers.
November 12, 2018, 04:38:29 AM
So allowing for the fact 150k members posted recently the 0.00066% of the board are getting 32.69% of merit their from the same 0.00066% of the board. I know this is irrelevant and would mean nothing but I wonder what the probability of that taking place if merit was randomly attributed between just 150k accounts ...ah if only I was a math master or even just okay at math. Well since it is irrelevant I shouldn't give it much thought.
I think you forgot to turn the figure into percentage (100 /150 000) *100 -> 0,067% … Arguably the best posters will at some point merit some of the other best posters, since that is what merit is about: meriting decent content, and that content is likely generated by … surprise .. the best posters.The fact for me is that, for example, one can browse through posts made on Meta and feel they are kind of engaging and often well versed and intelligent, with a steady readable conversational flow. On the other hand, there are board sections where you need to swim through a cesspit of nonsensical comments, that do not really constitute an elaborate discussion, but rather a pointless set of monologues waving a signature flag as the only reason behind.
<…>This is sad because most noobs will be primarily interested in alts and will be motivated to join discussions there hence already reducing greatly their chance of any merit to practically nothing. I have noticed some alt sources mention they never visit alt discussion or for some reason.
The thing is though, trying to go through the Alt sections to find meritable posts requires first a certain interest on the topic (which many may not have), and then a strong will power to go through a section which, as I’ve stated before, is not normally building up conversation, but rather spam for the sake of campaign’s needs. Conceptually, there should be some good projects there, and so some good stuff could/should be found. Nevertheless, separating the wheat from the chaff will I figure deem a monumental task. Even so, paradoxically, Ann Altcoins is the most merited section on aggregate (11,44% or 29.891 sMerits), and Altcoin Discussion has received 4,14% of total aggregate merit (10.830 merits). For whatever obscure reason, some have made a pretty penny there with no issue on aggregate. Of course, the number of posts is massive there, so the merit/post ratio is small.
Quote
Let's though compare bitcoin discussion which is more moderated and has not been crushed like the alt discussion since it is not meant to have discussion of annoying new and mostly scammy icos. So should be more comparable so pretty much what I had thought 13x more chance of merit per post. Am I interpreting that correctly?
The overall merit per post on the Bitcoin Discussion I calculated back in July 2018 (a bit has rained since then though) was 0,033/post. For Altcoin Discussion it was 0,009/post. So the ratio is 3,67 times better in the Bitcoin Discussion section compared to the Altcoin Discussion. Nevertheless, the chance factor is not a random lottery equal opportunity based, since each post’s chances depend on many factors, being content one of the core ones. I think there is much more spam in the Altcoin section than the Bitcoin section, which drags the ratio down for the Altcoin section. November 11, 2018, 02:55:48 PM
<…> I expect by the time we expand this to the top 200 we would notice that 50% or even greater are received by other members of the top 200. This data to me does not rule out that much higher % for example 70 - 95 % of merit given out by the top 200 does not just remain within the top 200<…>
I’ve continued scaling the Top X Merited for the following groups:Top 200 -> 43,29% received merit from Top 200.
Top 500 -> 50,61% received merit from Top 500.
Top 1000 -> 56,62% received merit from Top 1000.
Top 5000 -> 69,44% received merit from Top 5000.
I wouldn’t go down further than top 5000. Below this level, people start to have few sMerits really to award (5 or less in general).
Also worth noting is that meta absorbs such a high proportion of merit compared to the number of people actually posting here. I suspect the alt board (where most new people post) and even the btc board that have 10x the number of posts actually has far more than 10x more people posting there. You can likely say 100x of times more people posting there. Then seeing the number of merits that meta absorbs is a lot.
Sure, but you can’t really compare the content quality of the posts on Meta vs Altcoin boards really. In Bitcointalk – Posts per Day - evolution during past six months, section 4 (Merit per Post Ratio) I calculated the merit per post for a given board (section/subsection). Sure Meta is way above Altcoin boards, but no wonder really. Also note that Meta is not one of the easiest boards to get the first merit at all (see: Analysis – The Merit Path – Where we start off and the path we follow).Top 10 -> 9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top 20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top 50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.
Top 200 -> 43,29% received merit from Top 200.
Top 500 -> 50,61% received merit from Top 500.
Top 1000 -> 56,62% received merit from Top 1000.
Top 5000 -> 69,44% received merit from Top 5000.
thanks for these... so a bit better than I expected at 43.29% not 50% or greater but regardless still a monster proportion.
So allowing for the fact 150k members posted recently the 0.00066% of the board are getting 32.69% of merit their from the same 0.00066% of the board. I know this is irrelevant and would mean nothing but I wonder what the probability of that taking place if merit was randomly attributed between just 150k accounts ...ah if only I was a math master or even just okay at math. Well since it is irrelevant I shouldn't give it much thought.
The stat we can't (or perhaps we can but I am missing it) see is what % of merit given by out each tier is kept inside each tier this would probably be even more interesting to know. I am I correct in saying the top 10 posters could give 100% of their merit to each other and their received % from inside the top 10 could still be tiny if the tiers below gave them a far greater proportion of their merit?
So for the sake of examining circle jerking and back slapping you would really need to know the given stat more than received would you not? as I say stats are not my thing but you seem far more math minded than myself. Is it not more important to know what % they send out of their tiers compared to the % they send within their tiers that what they receive in from other tier and their own tiers? Am i missing something with this part due to poor math ability? or is that stat already something I should be able to calculate from the provided stats?
Comparing meta board to the alt board of course is a bit of a stretch I admit. The alt board discussion is the board hit the hardest by the ico promotional wave of scammers so to try and compare the post quality is of course not really possible so to compare the merit stats is not really going to prove anything other than you will not get merit on the alt discussion board even for a great post generally because of many factors but primarily because you are going to be much harder to find by those with most merit to give.
This is sad because most noobs will be primarily interested in alts and will be motivated to join discussions there hence already reducing greatly their chance of any merit to practically nothing. I have noticed some alt sources mention they never visit alt discussion or for some reason
Anyway I agree there are lots of reasons why you should have 0.007% of a merit per post on alt compared to 0.28% chance of merit on meta. That though is a massive difference.
Let's though compare bitcoin discussion which is more moderated and has not been crushed like the alt discussion since it is not meant to have discussion of annoying new and mostly scammy icos. So should be more comparable so pretty much what I had thought 13x more chance of merit per post. Am I interpreting that correctly?
Merit is a good addition though and I think the alt discussion board is slowing up ...so account farmers are dying back a bit.
Interesting to view the received stats you posted though for sure. Thank you for posting those.
@actmyname
I agree with what you have said to a certain degree.
Although it is nice to take a deeper look at how things are actually taking place so far with merit.
November 11, 2018, 02:38:35 PM
Also worth noting is that meta absorbs such a high proportion of merit compared to the number of people actually posting here. I suspect the alt board (where most new people post) and even the btc board that have 10x the number of posts actually has far more than 10x more people posting there. You can likely say 100x of times more people posting there. Then seeing the number of merits that meta absorbs is a lot.
10x the posts does not mean 10x the quality. I would rather try to find an exceptional topic in Meta bereft of spam than a decent topic in the Altcoin boards where there are not more than 3 spam posts on any given page.From what I see, the more general a board is, the heavier spam it generates.
November 11, 2018, 12:49:18 PM
<…> I expect by the time we expand this to the top 200 we would notice that 50% or even greater are received by other members of the top 200. This data to me does not rule out that much higher % for example 70 - 95 % of merit given out by the top 200 does not just remain within the top 200<…>
I’ve continued scaling the Top X Merited for the following groups:Top 200 -> 43,29% received merit from Top 200.
Top 500 -> 50,61% received merit from Top 500.
Top 1000 -> 56,62% received merit from Top 1000.
Top 5000 -> 69,44% received merit from Top 5000.
I wouldn’t go down further than top 5000. Below this level, people start to have few sMerits really to award (5 or less in general).
Also worth noting is that meta absorbs such a high proportion of merit compared to the number of people actually posting here. I suspect the alt board (where most new people post) and even the btc board that have 10x the number of posts actually has far more than 10x more people posting there. You can likely say 100x of times more people posting there. Then seeing the number of merits that meta absorbs is a lot.
Sure, but you can’t really compare the content quality of the posts on Meta vs Altcoin boards really. In Bitcointalk – Posts per Day - evolution during past six months, section 4 (Merit per Post Ratio) I calculated the merit per post for a given board (section/subsection). Sure Meta is way above Altcoin boards, but no wonder really. Also note that Meta is not one of the easiest boards to get the first merit at all (see: Analysis – The Merit Path – Where we start off and the path we follow). November 11, 2018, 07:09:48 AM
At first glance looking at this I would say that it is not quite as bad as I had initially suspected however it still is along the lines of what I thought it would be and this data could actually not be clearly demonstrating the circle jerk/ back slapping within the top 100 or 200 users that is going on.
If we look at this
Top 10 -> 9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top 20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top 50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.
This is received and i think looks a little better than what i had expected due to those being merited by those hoping to get some merits in return.
I expect by the time we expand this to the top 200 we would notice that 50% or even greater are received by other members of the top 200. This data to me does not rule out that much higher % for example 70 - 95 % of merit given out by the top 200 does not just remain within the top 200 .
Also worth noting is that meta absorbs such a high proportion of merit compared to the number of people actually posting here. I suspect the alt board (where most new people post) and even the btc board that have 10x the number of posts actually has far more than 10x more people posting there. You can likely say 100x of times more people posting there. Then seeing the number of merits that meta absorbs is a lot.
Now there will be some who will say you can always interpret data how you prefer to. Since I don't know the % of merit given out by the top 100/top200 (which is still let us say realistically 0.01% of real posters taking out bots and scammers) which ONLY goes to other top merit 100 / 200 holders we can not really rule out a definite circle jerking back slapping pattern here.
Having said all of that it is not a big deal. Merit works well for stopping new bot accounts powering up and account farming and provides some way to show appreciation for views they share and other useful things. Therefore is working well but we have to be careful regarding what other conclusions we automatically draw merit scores.
If we look at this
Top 10 -> 9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top 20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top 50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.
This is received and i think looks a little better than what i had expected due to those being merited by those hoping to get some merits in return.
I expect by the time we expand this to the top 200 we would notice that 50% or even greater are received by other members of the top 200. This data to me does not rule out that much higher % for example 70 - 95 % of merit given out by the top 200 does not just remain within the top 200 .
Also worth noting is that meta absorbs such a high proportion of merit compared to the number of people actually posting here. I suspect the alt board (where most new people post) and even the btc board that have 10x the number of posts actually has far more than 10x more people posting there. You can likely say 100x of times more people posting there. Then seeing the number of merits that meta absorbs is a lot.
Now there will be some who will say you can always interpret data how you prefer to. Since I don't know the % of merit given out by the top 100/top200 (which is still let us say realistically 0.01% of real posters taking out bots and scammers) which ONLY goes to other top merit 100 / 200 holders we can not really rule out a definite circle jerking back slapping pattern here.
Having said all of that it is not a big deal. Merit works well for stopping new bot accounts powering up and account farming and provides some way to show appreciation for views they share and other useful things. Therefore is working well but we have to be careful regarding what other conclusions we automatically draw merit scores.
November 10, 2018, 01:53:49 PM
Just from my curiosity,
If user A sends X amount of sMerits to user B and receives the almost exact number, can we count that as abusing merit between buddy, provided that the amount is not lower? Also, user A receives 39% of his total merit from user B.
Sorry, it's quite off-topic for this thread. I don't want to create a topic for knowing this only.
If user A sends X amount of sMerits to user B and receives the almost exact number, can we count that as abusing merit between buddy, provided that the amount is not lower? Also, user A receives 39% of his total merit from user B.
Sorry, it's quite off-topic for this thread. I don't want to create a topic for knowing this only.
November 10, 2018, 07:51:17 AM
<…>The top 10 merit holders got 9.57% of their merits (since merit started) from other top 10 merit holders?<…>
Yes, that is the correct interpretation.Quote
From just knowing that how do I know how much total merit the top 10 merit users gave out in total?
I could retrieve the data, but instead of doing that it may me more flexible for you to use the Merit Dashboard, or whatever other tool/list you see fit (namely provided by @Piggy, @LoyceV and @Vod). The Merit Dashboard in interactive, and has multiple views of the Merit System, with charts, aggregates, lists and so on, filterable by different conditions (time periods, boards, nominal profiles, etc.).For example, the top 10 Meriters or Merited can be seen on the "Rankings Tab". You can click on them to go to their Bitcointalk profile, or copy their name and go to the "Personal Summary" tab, paste the name into the top right box and press enter. You will get a full summary on that profile (activity, posts, merit, received merit, sent merit, broken down by month, rank, board, etc.). In addition, you can filter the information to a certain period of time and/or forum board (section/subsection).
Quote
Would it from this example be possible for them to give out only 2k and give 50% to the top 10 only?
The maximum is 50 sMerits per person you merit per 30 days. Any highly abuse activity will very likely show up in one of the available tools, and be spotted and brought to the light by one of the forum members that use them. November 10, 2018, 06:08:23 AM
As I see it, the merit system is the only way to acknowledge a post on the forum, and show you appreciate the post and are in agreement with its content and (or) suggestion.
You can always reply to the post if you can add value to the comment. If you can't add value, then it is better to keep silent, as multiple posts that are simple agreements can kill the thread discussion.
November 10, 2018, 05:56:32 AM
2. That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members who are worthy of merit to enable them to legitimately move up ranks.
They aren't, they shouldn't, and they can't be forced to do so. This only really poses a problem for people that are desperate to get an account (or multiple..) quickly ranked up. I wonder what "legitimate" reason one would have for this. 
November 10, 2018, 05:53:19 AM
2. That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members who are worthy of merit to enable them to legitimately move up ranks.
I believe that is what they called "Reciprocal Merit", it is when they send back sMerit/s to the one who have given them sMerits. This happens commonly and there is nothing wrong about is as long as the post is "meritable". Sometimes when a good conversation is happening and they have known each other in the forum they send back and forth the merits as a way of appreciating what they have said previously even on the past threads they have conversed with. These merits are not wasted as it is given to someone who is worthy of it. The wrong way to use reciprocal merits is when they use it as means of ranking up their own accounts and use it to produce more merits in order to sell, you can even see that the posts receiving the merits are really shitty to even be given one. 
November 10, 2018, 05:02:47 AM
So there is no other way to show your agreement or approval of a post or comment, since the quality and acceptance of a post is weighed by the number of merits it gets.
Many users agree with many posts, if they would all post just to say that, it will cause a tremendous amount of useless posts. That's why it's not allowed, and that's what makes Merit so much more than just a "Like".Initially, theymos said to Merit high quality posts. Later, it was backed down a bit to "good" posts. My interpretation is that anyone who's not a spammer, shouldn't be restricted by the Merit system. So more or less anything that's worth reading deserves some Merit. I've merited your post, not because I agree, but because it's worth reading and I don't think you're the typical spam bot.
It's a very strong system to be able to Merit a post you totally disagree with, but which is still worth reading.
November 10, 2018, 04:16:16 AM
As I see it, the merit system is the only way to acknowledge a post on the forum, and show you appreciate the post and are in agreement with its content and (or) suggestion.
As per theymos unofficial rules, meriting posts you agree with solely because you agree with it is wrong, but the rules also states that one worded replies like;
1. Such posts like "SELL SELL SELL", "I agree", "+1", "Support", "Watching", "Interesting", "LOL", "SCAM", "LEGIT", "FAKE", other one word posts, posts consisting mostly of swearing, quote pyramids,useless introduction threads, threads about a topic already recently discussed in several other threads.
...are not allowed, so members can not comment their support of the post/comment as that would count as spam. And can not reiterate what has already been said, that would count as spam also.
So there is no other way to show your agreement or approval of a post or comment, since the quality and acceptance of a post is weighed by the number of merits it gets.
Sure it is abused in some instances (there is no flawless system).
But I don't think any action can be taken; users can only be accused of merit abuse when discovered to be meriting their alt accounts or selling smerits. Except to take those members off the merit source list (if they were a part of it)
A like or dislike option would reduce the use of merits if it was introduced and counted for nothing except your agreement with the post.
But it would be abused if everyone could use it and would lose relevance.
As per theymos unofficial rules, meriting posts you agree with solely because you agree with it is wrong, but the rules also states that one worded replies like;
1. Such posts like "SELL SELL SELL", "I agree", "+1", "Support", "Watching", "Interesting", "LOL", "SCAM", "LEGIT", "FAKE", other one word posts, posts consisting mostly of swearing, quote pyramids,useless introduction threads, threads about a topic already recently discussed in several other threads.
...are not allowed, so members can not comment their support of the post/comment as that would count as spam. And can not reiterate what has already been said, that would count as spam also.
So there is no other way to show your agreement or approval of a post or comment, since the quality and acceptance of a post is weighed by the number of merits it gets.
Sure it is abused in some instances (there is no flawless system).
But I don't think any action can be taken; users can only be accused of merit abuse when discovered to be meriting their alt accounts or selling smerits. Except to take those members off the merit source list (if they were a part of it)
A like or dislike option would reduce the use of merits if it was introduced and counted for nothing except your agreement with the post.
But it would be abused if everyone could use it and would lose relevance.
November 10, 2018, 02:49:42 AM
From what I can tell, merit is very frequently given for posts that the merit sender agrees with. This is the circle jerking the OP is referring to. This will lead to new users mirroring the opinions of those in power. This diminishes the free flow of ideas and makes it more difficult to dissent from popular opinions. Even in this very thread, multiple posts have merit that fairly little effort was put into said post, but that the merit sender likely agreed with what the post said.
I also suspect that people send merit to those who are believed to have a lot of merit to send in the hopes of receiving merit in return. This results in merit sources having abnormal amounts of merit.
Also, merit sources should be sending 1/2 of the merit spent. This ignores the merit that can be spent from the airdrop. Everyone doesn’t spend all the sMerit they have so the percentage will be somewhat below 50%.
I truly support your opinion. In fact I have already made a thread related to it hereI also suspect that people send merit to those who are believed to have a lot of merit to send in the hopes of receiving merit in return. This results in merit sources having abnormal amounts of merit.
Quote from: qwk
But keep in mind: a large share of freely available merit comes from merit sources.
Merit sources are (if not by definition) people who usually also receive a decent amount of merit.
Why? Because that's how you become a merit source in the first place.
To become a merit source, you'll have to have a history of actually giving away merit.
Merit sources are people who have the capacity to send more merit than than they can spend with the sMerit they get from the merits they receive. They demonstrate this by pointing out posts that should have more merit than they have. Merit sources are (if not by definition) people who usually also receive a decent amount of merit.
Why? Because that's how you become a merit source in the first place.
To become a merit source, you'll have to have a history of actually giving away merit.
Also, merit sources should be sending 1/2 of the merit spent. This ignores the merit that can be spent from the airdrop. Everyone doesn’t spend all the sMerit they have so the percentage will be somewhat below 50%.
I would like getting your opinion there.
Sorry, for doing it buy sending a merits to you but your opinion was worth considering.
November 10, 2018, 02:14:36 AM
From what I can tell, merit is very frequently given for posts that the merit sender agrees with. This is the circle jerking the OP is referring to. This will lead to new users mirroring the opinions of those in power. This diminishes the free flow of ideas and makes it more difficult to dissent from popular opinions. Even in this very thread, multiple posts have merit that fairly little effort was put into said post, but that the merit sender likely agreed with what the post said.
I also suspect that people send merit to those who are believed to have a lot of merit to send in the hopes of receiving merit in return. This results in merit sources having abnormal amounts of merit.
I also suspect that people send merit to those who are believed to have a lot of merit to send in the hopes of receiving merit in return. This results in merit sources having abnormal amounts of merit.
What the f**k are you talking about? I'm a merit source and I have only earned 156 merits, which is less than what you have earned. I hardly consider the amount of merit that I earned an "abnormal amount." I only have 250 extra merit a month to give. I can't possibly hunt the whole forum and give merit to everyone who deserves it. I'm really getting sick and tired of people complaining on how we merit sources are doling out the merit. What on earth do you people want? We are trying to combat all of the shitty posting done by signature spammers and account farmers. Want to go back to the old way, where someone just has to post a couple of shitty posts a day to rank up? Furthermore, a person with very non-mainstream views, can rack up a bunch of merit. For example, Anunymint earned 127 merits in 40 days before he was nuked. If someone with unpopular views starts spouting off, they are going to attract fanboys. Especially if they know how to put together a good argument.
November 10, 2018, 01:46:04 AM
From what I can tell, merit is very frequently given for posts that the merit sender agrees with. This is the circle jerking the OP is referring to. This will lead to new users mirroring the opinions of those in power. This diminishes the free flow of ideas and makes it more difficult to dissent from popular opinions. Even in this very thread, multiple posts have merit that fairly little effort was put into said post, but that the merit sender likely agreed with what the post said.
I also suspect that people send merit to those who are believed to have a lot of merit to send in the hopes of receiving merit in return. This results in merit sources having abnormal amounts of merit.
Also, merit sources should be sending 1/2 of the merit spent. This ignores the merit that can be spent from the airdrop. Everyone doesn’t spend all the sMerit they have so the percentage will be somewhat below 50%.
I also suspect that people send merit to those who are believed to have a lot of merit to send in the hopes of receiving merit in return. This results in merit sources having abnormal amounts of merit.
Quote from: qwk
But keep in mind: a large share of freely available merit comes from merit sources.
Merit sources are (if not by definition) people who usually also receive a decent amount of merit.
Why? Because that's how you become a merit source in the first place.
To become a merit source, you'll have to have a history of actually giving away merit.
Merit sources are people who have the capacity to send more merit than than they can spend with the sMerit they get from the merits they receive. They demonstrate this by pointing out posts that should have more merit than they have. Merit sources are (if not by definition) people who usually also receive a decent amount of merit.
Why? Because that's how you become a merit source in the first place.
To become a merit source, you'll have to have a history of actually giving away merit.
Also, merit sources should be sending 1/2 of the merit spent. This ignores the merit that can be spent from the airdrop. Everyone doesn’t spend all the sMerit they have so the percentage will be somewhat below 50%.
November 09, 2018, 08:48:47 PM
Who can show me the top merit scoring posts of all time here??
Top merited topic of all timeThis list counts merit on only OP.
Top-merited replies, all-time
Top merited topic of all time- Most merited topics (SUM of OP + posts) (Fixed!)
thank you for your help.
November 09, 2018, 08:01:14 PM
Who can show me the top merit scoring posts of all time here??
Top merited topic of all timeThis list counts merit on only OP.
Top-merited replies, all-time
Top merited topic of all time- Most merited topics (SUM of OP + posts) (Fixed!)
November 09, 2018, 05:55:12 PM
<...>I just want to confirm and fill in the X's for the top 10, 20, 50, 100.<...>
This should be it for the day ...:Top 10 -> 9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top 20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top 50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.
There are currently 24.234 forum members that have received >= 1 sMerit, so the 100% will be reached on the top 24.234.
Also, we should forget the 2 million user mith. In practice, there are many less even posting and therefore postulating for merit on the whole (see The real activity of bitcointalk.org + full stats). Only 137K have made a post over the last three months for example, as seen on the referenced thread.
Thanks very much this is kind of the format I was really hoping for.
I am not that great at math at all so please keep with me for this...I just want to understand how this merit all works.
Top 10 -> 9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top 20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top 50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.
So for example does this show...
The top 10 merit holders got 9.57% of their merits (since merit started) from other top 10 merit holders?
So let's call it 10% for ease of putting some numbers in..
So let's say the top 10 received together as a group 10k merit since merit started
1k total from other current top 10 merit holders. 9k from those outside of the top 10 current highest.
that would not look entirely terrible although still quite concentrated considering the user number ( i accept it has been nowhere near 2million)
So here comes the part I want to know...
From just knowing that how do I know how much total merit the top 10 merit users gave out in total?
Would it from this example be possible for them to give out only 2k and give 50% to the top 10 only ?
Obviously that is a crazy hypothetical number (i hope) that I am using just to see if I understand how it works or what I can tell from the numbers provided kindly by DdmrDdmr and loyceV
I know I keep asking for more and more but it is very helpful for the entire community to look at and learn if like me they don't already know.
Who can show me the top merit scoring posts of all time here??
Let's say the top 100 top merit scoring posts of all time. So I can skip past those that have provided a tool or service or guide, and find some real general posts that make the majority of forum use. Not that tools/services guides are not very useful because some of course are and have required a lot of work.
Writing a guide to increase chances of getting a high merit score for posts is good. However seeing the top 100 examples of highest merit scoring posts of all time would be very helpful/interesting.
November 09, 2018, 03:05:07 PM
I have Jet Cash's "Snow Eagles" site bookmarked, but so far there are only a few members on there, and the site needs some serious improvement before it becomes useful. I'm speaking for myself only here, but I'm more than happy to reward a Newbie, Jr. Member, or any rank below Hero with merits IF the post deserves it and IF I can find the post. I have fairly high standards, but not impossibly high.
I'm really sorry that I haven't been working on that. I've had a lot of minor issues to sort out, and I've been making a few changes to my lifestyle. I hope that I can become a bit more focused in the near future. I've added a few more avatars to the avatar index, but that is probably a fairly minor feature. I'm also planning to delete my ignore list, and to have a page which lists people that I add to a new list in the future, and I'll include the offending post. I'll categorise these lists, as not everybody agrees with my ideas.
It's also time to give the Fit to Talk project a boost. It has become a bit of a social club, and there is even a Spanish thread that contains no English. I've still got loads of sMerits for "foreign" posters who can talk about the economies in their countries. By foreign I mean countries other than the UK and the US.
November 09, 2018, 02:44:56 PM
Merit is easily abused by those with multiple accounts. As such, there will be bad actors with artificially inflated scores. Anyone who watched the first couple of days of merit distributions witnessed that very obviously. That’s why you should take merit with a grain of salt. Some of the most disrespectful and useless members of this forum have been near the top of the merit list. However, it’s also a fun way to reward strangers for thoughtful posts, so it’s a worthy trade-off in my opinion.
November 09, 2018, 01:12:01 PM
<...>
As of last Friday (last Merit Dashboard update):LoyceV > DdmrDdmr = 45
LoyceV > The Pharmacist = 13
DdmrDdmr > LoyceV = 15
DdmrDdmr > The Pharmacist = 9
The Pharmacist > LoyceV = 4
The Pharmacist > DdmrDdmr = 5.
But that doesn't really show nothing much in general in my opinion on a one to one basis. What's more, all three coincide posting in some sections, and all bring decent stuff (dare I say) to the table, so reciprocal merit overtime is natural and is not a deep issue as I stated here: Is it true that we only send sMerit to our “buddies” ?.
This is the right information to drop the conspiracy theories... It only proves how the main merit senders don't send merits to their friends' circle. Thanks for the info DdmrDdmr
so, cryptohunter now you can be sure merits are used in the right way. November 09, 2018, 12:20:48 PM
...
Let's make this dynamic, from the next 3 users how many merits send between them:
...
Let's make this dynamic, from the next 3 users how many merits send between them:
...
You can check this with the SQL Merit Explorer made by Piggy yourself if you want.
The queries I used (Bitcointalk/Cloudflare don't like SQL Scripts in posts): https://gist.github.com/mainconceptx/3d843db920308cf09669e3e8961d8cd7
Just copy/paste it.
Result:
Code:
FromUser ToUser Merit
The Pharmacist LoyceV 4
FromUser ToUser Merit
LoyceV The Pharmacist 14
FromUser ToUser Merit
DdmrDdmr LoyceV 15
FromUser ToUser Merit
LoyceV DdmrDdmr 45
FromUser ToUser Merit
The Pharmacist DdmrDdmr 5
FromUser ToUser Merit
DdmrDdmr The Pharmacist 9
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
November 09, 2018, 12:03:56 PM
I also understand OP worries.
However, I’m afraid the opposite can be happening up to a point. I haven’t been sending merits to Legendaries and I’ve seen many people commenting along the same lines, not only on that thread but on other threads on the forum.
I think what happens actually is that most forum members tend to lower their standards when they send merits to lower ranks. If among all the shitposters, they find a newbie who writes a good post, they tend to merit him. And I’m talking about a “just” good post, not a very good or exceptional one. They probably wouldn’t give merit for that same post if it was written by a Legendary. It is a way of stimulating lower ranks to be positively productive instead of shitposting.
For me, it is not surprising that the top posters send and receive merit from the other top posters. I wrote that post because I found that if I didn’t save merits for lower ranks, I was sending them to the high ranks and when I saw a newbie worth meriting I was out of merits.
P.S: I recently decided to send merits also to Legendaries because I get merit more easily now, so I have more merits to send, but I’m still biased towards lower ranks.
However, I’m afraid the opposite can be happening up to a point. I haven’t been sending merits to Legendaries and I’ve seen many people commenting along the same lines, not only on that thread but on other threads on the forum.
I think what happens actually is that most forum members tend to lower their standards when they send merits to lower ranks. If among all the shitposters, they find a newbie who writes a good post, they tend to merit him. And I’m talking about a “just” good post, not a very good or exceptional one. They probably wouldn’t give merit for that same post if it was written by a Legendary. It is a way of stimulating lower ranks to be positively productive instead of shitposting.
For me, it is not surprising that the top posters send and receive merit from the other top posters. I wrote that post because I found that if I didn’t save merits for lower ranks, I was sending them to the high ranks and when I saw a newbie worth meriting I was out of merits.
P.S: I recently decided to send merits also to Legendaries because I get merit more easily now, so I have more merits to send, but I’m still biased towards lower ranks.
November 09, 2018, 11:31:43 AM
<...>
As of last Friday (last Merit Dashboard update):LoyceV > DdmrDdmr = 45
LoyceV > The Pharmacist = 13
DdmrDdmr > LoyceV = 15
DdmrDdmr > The Pharmacist = 9
The Pharmacist > LoyceV = 4
The Pharmacist > DdmrDdmr = 5.
But that doesn't really show nothing much in general in my opinion on a one to one basis. What's more, all three coincide posting in some sections, and all bring decent stuff (dare I say) to the table, so reciprocal merit overtime is natural and is not a deep issue as I stated here: Is it true that we only send sMerit to our “buddies” ?.
November 09, 2018, 11:16:25 AM
This should be not so surprising as if you dug a bit more into Meta you will find that part of the merit sources cannot find posts to give their merit to.
Which makes the whole situation even more complicated. Theymos wrote some time ago that it's better for the sources to unload all the source merit instead of let it "burn" with the time. It's not really burning but if you don't use it , it doesn't replenish.
So instead of wasting the generated smerit just pass it so it generates more, but sure it's not easy to find someone new to give meirt to.
Which makes the whole situation even more complicated. Theymos wrote some time ago that it's better for the sources to unload all the source merit instead of let it "burn" with the time. It's not really burning but if you don't use it , it doesn't replenish.
So instead of wasting the generated smerit just pass it so it generates more, but sure it's not easy to find someone new to give meirt to.
November 09, 2018, 11:14:06 AM
I see where is cryptohunter going.
Let's make this dynamic, from the next 3 users how many merits send between them:
LoyceV > DdmrDdmr = ?
LoyceV > The Pharmacist = ?
DdmrDdmr > LoyceV = ?
DdmrDdmr > The Pharmacist = ?
The Pharmacist > LoyceV = ?
The Pharmacist > DdmrDdmr = ?
Let's make this dynamic, from the next 3 users how many merits send between them:
Quote
LoyceV
DdmrDdmr
The Pharmacist
DdmrDdmr
The Pharmacist
LoyceV > DdmrDdmr = ?
LoyceV > The Pharmacist = ?
DdmrDdmr > LoyceV = ?
DdmrDdmr > The Pharmacist = ?
The Pharmacist > LoyceV = ?
The Pharmacist > DdmrDdmr = ?
November 09, 2018, 11:05:26 AM
<...>I just want to confirm and fill in the X's for the top 10, 20, 50, 100.<...>
This should be it for the day ...:Top 10 -> 9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top 20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top 50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.
There are currently 24.234 forum members that have received >= 1 sMerit, so the 100% will be reached on the top 24.234.
Also, we should forget the 2 million user mith. In practice, there are many less even posting and therefore postulating for merit on the whole (see The real activity of bitcointalk.org + full stats). Only 137K have made a post over the last three months for example, as seen on the referenced thread.
November 09, 2018, 11:01:55 AM
From the analysis "Top 30 Merit givers per board - Interactive Tool to spot possible Merit Sources", you can easily find out data of top 30 list of the most merited board, who gave most merit on which board. I think this one may assist you.
November 09, 2018, 11:00:06 AM
Well the first thing to point out is that this forum is not a decentralised project. It has a standard hierarchy of officials and members.
Indeed, and I think a lot of newcomers to crypto latch onto this "decentralized" word as some sort of holy grail to be achieved in every one of the world's problems/systems/structures, and it's just not feasible. To give an example, the prison system in my state used to operate pharmacies at each prison and jail and did this for years...until they figured out that it is much more cost-effective to have all the medications get dispensed out of a centralized location. That cut down on the staffing needed and improved communications. Almost the same situation happened with long-term care pharmacy, i.e., nursing homes and other residential care facilities. Sure, they all have Pyxis machines on premises, but all the scheduled meds come from pharmacies that resemble warehouses, with orders getting faxed in, technicians packacking meds up into blister packs, and pharmacists making IVs and checking the prescriptions before they go out the door.Bitcoin is decentralized, and it's a unique concept for a currency. Bitcointalk is not decentralized, and it's not a unique discussion forum.
A lot of the top merit-givers happen to be older members, and many of them are also very good contributors and receive a lot of merits themselves. That isn't surprising to me, but I get the feeling (well, actually he outright stated it) that OP thinks there's a "good 'ol boys" club of members passing merits between themselves for some undefined yet nefarious purpose.
OP, if you want to take a minute and look at the members I've given merit to, you'll definitely see a lot of recognized accounts, some of them merit sources, some of them on DT, but there are a lot of members below Hero rank that I've given merits to as well. In my case, I actually try to avoid giving merits to Legendary accounts or Hero members who already have enough merits to rank up to Legendary and are just waiting to get enough activity. Sometimes I can't help myself, sure, because there are a few Legendary members who make excellent posts that I feel compelled to merit, but overall I'm at least trying to target lower ranked members for merit.
Some users roll that way, i mean, if you become a friend of merit sources that resumes in more chance to get merits. But the merit sources are working hard to make a fair distribution of merits, or at least is that way in the Spanish section with our great merit source JetCash. This guy is making weekly merits giveaways to give the chance to all users to get merits
Jet Cash is exceptionally generous and has that type A personality that makes him want to be a doer, and he's doing a great job being a merit source and trying to help the forum in general. There may be members who only trade merits back and forth between their buddies, but I don't think that's the norm for merit sources. The sad fact is that it is extremely difficult to find posts made by lower-ranking members (especially Newbie & Jr. Member ranks) that would fit the criteria of being "just good". There are so many members of those two ranks nowadays that certain sections are flooded with posts by them, and they all tend to be generic, uninteresting, usually poorly-written, and sometimes even plagiarized. I'm sure a lot of merit sources have a hard time sustaining the motivation to keep searching for worthy, lower-ranked members to give merits to.
I have Jet Cash's "Snow Eagles" site bookmarked, but so far there are only a few members on there, and the site needs some serious improvement before it becomes useful. I'm speaking for myself only here, but I'm more than happy to reward a Newbie, Jr. Member, or any rank below Hero with merits IF the post deserves it and IF I can find the post. I have fairly high standards, but not impossibly high.
November 09, 2018, 10:55:40 AM
Repeat this until you're convinced 99% of the accounts doesn't deserve any Merit 
Why bother with such a complicated approach?Check the first 100 posts on
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=recent;patrol
and you will see
November 09, 2018, 10:51:40 AM
Is this the same as saying the top 50 merit holders send approx 25% of their total merits to the other top 50 merit holders.
If that is the case that is not great on a board of apparently 2m users?
I used random.org to generate 10 random numbers between 1 and 2 million:If that is the case that is not great on a board of apparently 2m users?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexsnz-1887762
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/signtenboci-1557917
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alefiel-1080411
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rashyboi-1197833
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/silver-ff-429335
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/sk945-967934
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/morphfuse03-1103723
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/shravareddy-1378511
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rc5ju-1260633
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/zeiskinanli-1739694
Now check their post history and see if anything is worth meriting. Repeat this until you're convinced 99% of the accounts doesn't deserve any Merit
November 09, 2018, 10:43:32 AM
Hold on a bit for the discussion of the stats.
I just want to confirm and fill in the X's for the top 10, 20, 50, 100.
Then we can all just take a closer look make more informed comments.
@ qwk - thanks for reply... let me just see those x's filled in then I will certainly be down for a discussion of we think those are showing us.
It will be of great interest to hear everyone input and for a sensible and adult discussion to take place.
@ suchmoon these are certainly important points to further analyse and discuss.
I just want to confirm and fill in the X's for the top 10, 20, 50, 100.
Then we can all just take a closer look make more informed comments.
@ qwk - thanks for reply... let me just see those x's filled in then I will certainly be down for a discussion of we think those are showing us.
It will be of great interest to hear everyone input and for a sensible and adult discussion to take place.
@ suchmoon these are certainly important points to further analyse and discuss.
November 09, 2018, 10:40:56 AM
So we are saying a 26% of smerits to the top 50 come from the top 50. So they are sending roughly 3/4 to those outside of the top 50.
That does not even seem a little high for a board with apparently 2M members?
Hm, let me consider this. No. Not at all. That does not even seem a little high for a board with apparently 2M members?
Apparently, it looks like favoritism / nepotism of some kind at first glance.
But keep in mind: a large share of freely available merit comes from merit sources.
Merit sources are (if not by definition) people who usually also receive a decent amount of merit.
Why? Because that's how you become a merit source in the first place.
To become a merit source, you'll have to have a history of actually giving away merit.
To have such a history, you'll have to have merit in the first place.
How do you get that merit? By making meaningful, quality posts that are rewarded with merit.
In simpler terms:
1. write good posts
2. receive merit
3. give away merit
4. theymos sees "hey, he / she's giving away merit"
5. you'll become a merit source
That's why, in the end, many merit sources are also good posters (not all, though).
November 09, 2018, 10:27:33 AM
What no offer of help?
You could get some additional merit for such a useful tool.
You could get some additional merit for such a useful tool.
Why would I need more merits?
My time is better spent sending merits, not receiving them.
These are quite interesting and confirm that meta although generally receiving 10x less traffic than the alt discussion board (where most new people are posting) still gets nearly 13x more merit activity. So that is quite alarming if you are going on a post to probability of merit ratio alone. 130x more likely to get merit for a post in meta- - Is that even vaguely correct?? Math is not my best thing actually so no shame in asking for assistance and confirmation.
There is no surprise that good posters and otherwise valuable members also tend to care about forum issues and comment on them in Meta.
Even bitcoins main forum that is far more moderated to raise the level of post quality.. is at 10x more posts and 2x less merit. So the ration there is better than the alt board but king of the hill by far and where you want be posting is meta, and you want to be in the top 50.
And that's the wrong conclusion. Shitty posters in Meta get laughed at and their posting histories get looked into and they often end up worse (neg trust, plagiarism reports, etc). You got the correlation/causation thing wrong. Posting in Meta doesn't mean you'll get merits. Making good posts in Meta or elsewhere may increase your chances of getting merit. Making shitty posts may decrease your chances of getting merit.
November 09, 2018, 10:26:01 AM
November 09, 2018, 10:21:48 AM
<...>
Got a bit bored at seeing some comments and thought I could use the time otherwise…Thanks for the correction; can’t be working, and cooking and scraping and doing stats all at the same time…
November 09, 2018, 10:15:18 AM
And here I was trying to ease of the stats....
Why? You're good at it!Quote
The Top 50 Receivers have received 26,38% of their sMerits on average from within the top 50 Receivers. That means 73,63% goes comes from outside of the top 50. Good enough for me ..
My adjustment in red. Is this what you meant? And if so, can you do the same for the Top 50 Senders? November 09, 2018, 10:07:35 AM
And here I was trying to ease off the stats....
The Top 50 Receivers have received 26,38% of their sMerits on average from within the top 50 Receivers. That means 73,63% comes from outside of the top 50. Good enough for me ..
nMeritTop50: Merit Received from top 50 Receivers .
nMeritReceivedTotal: Total Merit Received.
The Top 50 Receivers have received 26,38% of their sMerits on average from within the top 50 Receivers. That means 73,63% comes from outside of the top 50. Good enough for me ..
nMeritTop50: Merit Received from top 50 Receivers .
nMeritReceivedTotal: Total Merit Received.
Code:
nMeritTop50 nMeritReceivedTotal % user_id name url
490 1172 41,81% 1582324 DdmrDdmr https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1582324
393 1203 32,67% 459836 LoyceV https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=459836
387 1044 37,07% 397737 hilariousetc https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=397737
338 779 43,39% 897509 xtraelv https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=897509
307 991 30,98% 479624 Last of the V8s https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=479624
302 817 36,96% 1067333 micgoossens https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1067333
299 869 34,41% 487418 The Pharmacist https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=487418
297 2878 10,32% 35 theymos https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35
273 776 35,18% 698159 Jet Cash https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=698159
250 643 38,88% 1188543 o_e_l_e_o https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1188543
247 602 41,03% 1291828 iasenko https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1291828
243 507 47,93% 787736 marlboroza https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=787736
240 764 31,41% 976210 nullius https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=976210
230 900 25,56% 234771 suchmoon https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=234771
219 613 35,73% 120694 xhomerx10 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=120694
215 427 50,35% 579628 bob123 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=579628
207 585 35,38% 11425 gmaxwell https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=11425
206 816 25,25% 30747 Vod https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=30747
206 448 45,98% 867786 HCP https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=867786
200 697 28,69% 98986 TMAN https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98986
195 709 27,50% 188198 Piggy https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=188198
179 487 36,76% 1560793 sncc https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1560793
172 471 36,52% 557989 BTCforJoe https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=557989
167 564 29,61% 569455 BobLawblaw https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=569455
167 501 33,33% 181806 HairyMaclairy https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=181806
158 555 28,47% 1180530 theyoungmillionaire https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1180530
155 465 33,33% 1554927 bitmover https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1554927
150 420 35,71% 1424178 mole0815 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1424178
148 404 36,63% 881377 Hhampuz https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=881377
147 733 20,05% 290195 achow101 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=290195
142 447 31,77% 49008 jojo69 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49008
138 424 32,55% 143168 TheQuin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=143168
134 443 30,25% 41175 infofront https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=41175
128 758 16,89% 520313 Lutpin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=520313
124 425 29,18% 252510 JayJuanGee https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=252510
123 416 29,57% 1339716 coinlocket$ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1339716
118 402 29,35% 163318 Torque https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=163318
110 641 17,16% 101872 Lauda https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=101872
101 579 17,44% 1000199 krogothmanhattan https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1000199
90 422 21,33% 18321 OgNasty https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=18321
77 442 17,42% 507936 DarkStar_ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=507936
68 1263 05,38% 3 satoshi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3
63 395 15,95% 64205 Carlton Banks https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=64205
45 447 10,07% 1878246 abhiseshakana https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1878246
39 614 06,35% 1275282 joniboini https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1275282
36 465 07,74% 24140 qwk https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=24140
14 426 03,29% 369212 zazarb https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=369212
1 396 00,25% 1071136 PHI1618 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1071136
1 478 00,21% 1076869 pitipawn https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1076869
0 400 00,00% 1090672 Smart man https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1090672
November 09, 2018, 10:00:16 AM
Hello cryptohunter, i understand your worries. Sometimes i see that Merit mafia too but is just paranoia.
Some users roll that way, i mean, if you become a friend of merit sources that resumes in more chance to get merits. But the merit sources are working hard to make a fair distribution of merits, or at least is that way in the Spanish section with our great merit source JetCash. This guy is making weekly merits giveaways to give the chance to all users to get merits as you can see on this thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/concurso-semanal-de-merito-6-al-12-de-noviembre-cerrado-pronto-otro-5064480 and he even create a thread called 'The merit to become junior' (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/el-punto-para-ser-junior-para-newbies-solo-5030808) on that thread he offers one merit to newbies if they bring a good quality post.
So, as you say we see a lot of users making a merit circle, but a lot of them are helping newbies too. So, let's not be paranoids and if you see someone abusing the system, then report him.
Quote
That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members
Some users roll that way, i mean, if you become a friend of merit sources that resumes in more chance to get merits. But the merit sources are working hard to make a fair distribution of merits, or at least is that way in the Spanish section with our great merit source JetCash. This guy is making weekly merits giveaways to give the chance to all users to get merits as you can see on this thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/concurso-semanal-de-merito-6-al-12-de-noviembre-cerrado-pronto-otro-5064480 and he even create a thread called 'The merit to become junior' (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/el-punto-para-ser-junior-para-newbies-solo-5030808) on that thread he offers one merit to newbies if they bring a good quality post.
So, as you say we see a lot of users making a merit circle, but a lot of them are helping newbies too. So, let's not be paranoids and if you see someone abusing the system, then report him.
November 09, 2018, 09:59:11 AM
I'm going to prove the theory if I'm not careful. I've given Loyce 2 merits each for two of his posts today. I guess I need to lock my merit bag.
November 09, 2018, 09:54:07 AM
Who are the merit sources here btw? and what is a merit source exactly? I have previous not paid any notice of the kind of board metrics before since I am not a trader here. I am starting to take an interest in DT of late too I had not even known such a thing existed. I am interested to see how one is eligible and then who decides on DT. (that discussion is for another thread though).
You're asking many questions that have been discussed and answered in Meta many times. I recommend you read a bit more first in other threads.I can also recommend checking the last topics started by Piggy and DdmrDdmr. I think you're going to love their work on Merit statistics (partially interactive).
Further reading: [TOP-200] Members who support newbies - Thanks!.
November 09, 2018, 09:48:39 AM
The true telling point with be the amounts awarded. I think such a tool to analyse this very important (to those who want to level up ) would be of top priority.
I would love to know which boards have the most merit action also.
I would love to know which boards have the most merit action also.
You have the data, get to work and let us know.
What no offer of help?
You could get some additional merit for such a useful tool.
@LoyceV
thank you very much for this
Total Merit Non-Local board
2418 Meta
1263 Bitcoin Discussion
1067 Beginners & Help
951 Economics
692 Development & Technical Discussion
553 Marketplace
392
365 Announcements (Altcoins)
313 Bitcoin Technical Support
299 Off-topic
290 Trading Discussion
271 Mining (Altcoins)
247 Marketplace (Altcoins)
242 Mining
192 Altcoin Discussion
Meta - 247262 Posts - 2418 merit
Alt discussion board - 2564018 Posts - 192 merit
Bitcoin discussion board - 2038120 Posts - 1263 merit
These are quite interesting and confirm that meta although generally receiving 10x less traffic than the alt discussion board (where most new people are posting) still gets nearly 13x more merit activity. So that is quite alarming if you are going on a post to probability of merit ratio alone. 130x more likely to get merit for a post in meta- - Is that even vaguely correct?? Math is not my best thing actually so no shame in asking for assistance and confirmation.
Even bitcoins main forum that is far more moderated to raise the level of post quality.. is at 10x more posts and 2x less merit. So the ration there is better than the alt board but king of the hill by far and where you want be posting is meta, and you want to be in the top 50.
So in the most obscure board (for most) and be already one of the highest merit profiles is the quickest way to more merit it would seem.
However yes, if everyone was as helpfull as loyceV then perhaps they should be entitled to high merit.
I had suspected merit was introduced to enable only valid posters to level up so have often ignored very good posts from legends since I could not see any benefit to them to have extra when I could give lower level members that were trying hard a chance to level up.
November 09, 2018, 09:43:59 AM
If it is any help, LoyceV provided a merit history for me. I haven't updated it since June, but the list is here -
Try http://loycevsbasement.privatedns.org/Merit/history/698159.html I'll update it again in a few hours.
November 09, 2018, 09:43:02 AM
November 09, 2018, 09:40:02 AM
I would also like to see which boards get the most merit action. This is very important too.
Edit: These are the top merit receivers by local section / non-local section:
For any local section:
Code:
Total Merit Local board
574 Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
420 Deutsch (German)
371 Pyccкий (Russian)
339 Türkçe (Turkish)
246 Português (Portuguese)
184 Français
153 Hrvatski (Croatian)
144 Español (Spanish)
137 Italiano (Italian)
132 Philippines
120 中文 (Chinese)
100 日本語 (Japanese)
77 Nederlands (Dutch)
75 العربية (Arabic)
66 한국어 (Korean)
63 Other languages/locations
42 Eλληνικά (Greek)
37 Română (Romanian)
34 Polski
30 India
2 Skandinavisk
For any non-local section:
Code:
Total Merit Non-Local board
2418 Meta
1263 Bitcoin Discussion
1067 Beginners & Help
951 Economics
692 Development & Technical Discussion
553 Marketplace
392
365 Announcements (Altcoins)
313 Bitcoin Technical Support
299 Off-topic
290 Trading Discussion
271 Mining (Altcoins)
247 Marketplace (Altcoins)
242 Mining
192 Altcoin Discussion
135 Project Development
132 Serious discussion
128 Politics & Society
125 Archival
123 Speculation (Altcoins)
Credits to Piggy for his SQL Merit search tool.
Query used for the non-local section:
Code:
SELECT MAX(result.total) as "Total Merit", result.SubBoard as "Non-Local board" FROM (
SELECT toid, SubBoard, SUM(Merit) AS total
FROM meritdata as m
WHERE m.Board in (SELECT Board FROM meritdata Where Board not like "Local%" GROUP BY Board)
GROUP BY toid, Board
ORDER BY Board,total Desc) AS result
GROUP BY SubBoard
ORDER BY result.total Desc
Query used for the local section:
We can easily get the Top Receiver for any local section simply using this:
Code:
SELECT MAX(result.total) as "Total Merit", result.toid as "Top merit receiver", result.SubBoard as "Local board" FROM (
SELECT toid, SubBoard, SUM(Merit) AS total
FROM meritdata as m
WHERE m.Board in (SELECT Board FROM meritdata Where Board like "Local%" GROUP BY Board)
GROUP BY toid, Board
ORDER BY Board,total Desc) AS result
GROUP BY SubBoard
ORDER BY result.total Desc
EDIT:
This seems to be the correct query, the queries above refer to the top merit receivers by subboard.
Code:
SELECT SUM(Merit) as "Total Merit", board, subboard from MeritData
Group by SubBoard
order by SUM(merit) desc
Code:
Total Merit Board SubBoard
31067 Local Pyccкий (Russian)
30475 Alternate cryptocurrencies Announcements (Altcoins)
26075 Other Meta
20590 Economy Economics
16800 Economy Marketplace
14432 Local Türkçe (Turkish)
12787 Alternate cryptocurrencies Altcoin Discussion
12266 Bitcoin Bitcoin Discussion
11083 Message DELETED!
9769 Local Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
7905 Economy Trading Discussion
7423 Local Deutsch (German)
7110 Bitcoin Development & Technical Discussion
6273 Alternate cryptocurrencies Marketplace (Altcoins)
5275 Alternate cryptocurrencies Mining (Altcoins)
4738 Other Beginners & Help
3584 Local Français
3283 Bitcoin Mining
3065 Other Off-topic
3016 Alternate cryptocurrencies Speculation (Altcoins)
2677 Other Politics & Society
2658 Other Serious discussion
2624 Local Italiano (Italian)
2381 Local 中文 (Chinese)
2197 Local Español (Spanish)
2141 Local Philippines
1826 Local Português (Portuguese)
1757 Bitcoin Bitcoin Technical Support
1727 Local Hrvatski (Croatian)
954 Bitcoin Project Development
660 Local العربية (Arabic)
563 Local Other languages/locations
544 Local Eλληνικά (Greek)
512 Local 日本語 (Japanese)
349 Local Nederlands (Dutch)
337 Local Polski
247 Other Archival
198 Local India
139 Local Română (Romanian)
100 Local 한국어 (Korean)
2 Local Skandinavisk
Query for cross-checking with the total merit query:
Code:
SELECT SUM("Total Merit") from (
SELECT SUM(Merit) as "Total Merit", board, subboard from MeritData
Group by SubBoard
order by SUM(merit) desc)--> Seems good now:
Code:
SUM("Total Merit")
261609Code:
SELECT SUM(Merit) from MeritData
Total Merit:
Code:
SUM(Merit)
261609
November 09, 2018, 09:37:17 AM
If it is any help, LoyceV provided a merit history for me. I haven't updated it since June, but the list is here -
http://talkmerit.com/projects/merit-history.html
Maybe I should publish a second page. The comparison might be interesting.
http://talkmerit.com/projects/merit-history.html
Maybe I should publish a second page. The comparison might be interesting.
November 09, 2018, 09:30:08 AM
The true telling point with be the amounts awarded. I think such a tool to analyse this very important (to those who want to level up ) would be of top priority.
I would love to know which boards have the most merit action also.
I would love to know which boards have the most merit action also.
You have the data, get to work and let us know.
November 09, 2018, 09:28:07 AM
I see your point OP, getting 1 merit for newbie is a challenge and we must leave that way for the starters to earn recognition and acknowledgement from the merit source. However, once they earn merit it will just leave like that stuck up with the current rank. I have seen some Jr. member good posters in the forum and that are active in meta section that does always contribute their valuable ideas every time a newbie posted a thread to earn merit. Those users must be motivated to share more on their ideas by awarding merit probably or some sort of encouragement through replies.
Only 1 merit and 30 activity needed for a newbie to rank up to a jr. member rank. But, after ranking up to jr. member later on the problem in getting another 10 merit to rank up to member would be harder. I was just lucky that merit source has provided me enough merit to rank up to member. But then, I stuck in this rank. Anyway, being a member is already enough to be part of the forum but it is more good when I could wear that Avatar one day.
Only 1 merit and 30 activity needed for a newbie to rank up to a jr. member rank. But, after ranking up to jr. member later on the problem in getting another 10 merit to rank up to member would be harder. I was just lucky that merit source has provided me enough merit to rank up to member. But then, I stuck in this rank. Anyway, being a member is already enough to be part of the forum but it is more good when I could wear that Avatar one day.
November 09, 2018, 09:15:23 AM
This is for the top 50 ?
Yes
The true telling point with be the amounts awarded. I think such a tool to analyse this very important (to those who want to level up ) would be of top priority.
I would love to know which boards have the most merit action also.
November 09, 2018, 09:14:43 AM
November 09, 2018, 09:09:29 AM
This is for the top 50 ?
Yes
November 09, 2018, 09:05:47 AM
This is for the top 50 ?
November 09, 2018, 08:57:40 AM
Well the first thing to point out is that this forum is not a decentralised project. It has a standard hierarchy of officials and members. It may be that many members support decentralisation and are anti-globalisation ( but not all ). If this hierarchy did not exist, then it would be mayhem here, and the forum would be useless in my opinion.
Your other point that merit awarding may be abused is a topic that has been discussed in many threads. I'm sure there is a certain amount of abuse of the system, but Theymos has been fairly careful in his selection of merit sources, and their activities are under constant scrutiny by the forum statisticians.Your assumtion has a fairly obvious basis. Longer standing members will be more comfortable with their posting, and most will be able to contribute more to the forum based on their experience. It makes sense to draw merit sources from that pool as well.
Your other point that merit awarding may be abused is a topic that has been discussed in many threads. I'm sure there is a certain amount of abuse of the system, but Theymos has been fairly careful in his selection of merit sources, and their activities are under constant scrutiny by the forum statisticians.Your assumtion has a fairly obvious basis. Longer standing members will be more comfortable with their posting, and most will be able to contribute more to the forum based on their experience. It makes sense to draw merit sources from that pool as well.
Thanks for posting and there could be merit in what you have said.
However opinons are something I would care to avoid until the statistical analysis is provided to demonstrate how much merit to and fro is contained within the top 50.
The possible explanations of such activity (once determined) should only then be discussed because it may not be the case that the top 50 are circle jerking merit around at all and this notion is without foundation.
I see many posts of I have developed this analysis tool and that analysis tool. This one should be equally as simple to create could be magnitudes more important if you consider the implications.
Also where to find the metric for what boards demonstrate the most merit activity?
Is it an offense to offer merit here for things to be done for the good of the board? for instance if one was to offer 25 or 50 merit points for the first person to create such an analysis tool. To be applied say 5 per month as long as the application stays active and live?
November 09, 2018, 08:55:41 AM
November 09, 2018, 08:53:04 AM
...
Most generous merit senders, all time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topsendat
Can compare these lists by the number of matches...
Thank you these are a good start.
I would certainly be willling to give merit to any person here developing a dynamic website that could evaluate this data and produce some tight stats and graphical presentations for it.
To do this manually and get it 100% correct would be quite a substantial task.
I'm sure many would be willing to merit such a worthy application that helps to ensure board does not become a centralised backslapping circle jerk of merit hogs. Not that I have any specific analysis that allows me to say that it has as yet.
November 09, 2018, 08:51:42 AM
Well the first thing to point out is that this forum is not a decentralised project. It has a standard hierarchy of officials and members. It may be that many members support decentralisation and are anti-globalisation ( but not all ). If this hierarchy did not exist, then it would be mayhem here, and the forum would be useless in my opinion.
Your other point that merit awarding may be abused is a topic that has been discussed in many threads. I'm sure there is a certain amount of abuse of the system, but Theymos has been fairly careful in his selection of merit sources, and their activities are under constant scrutiny by the forum statisticians.Your assumtion has a fairly obvious basis. Longer standing members will be more comfortable with their posting, and most will be able to contribute more to the forum based on their experience. It makes sense to draw merit sources from that pool as well.
Your other point that merit awarding may be abused is a topic that has been discussed in many threads. I'm sure there is a certain amount of abuse of the system, but Theymos has been fairly careful in his selection of merit sources, and their activities are under constant scrutiny by the forum statisticians.Your assumtion has a fairly obvious basis. Longer standing members will be more comfortable with their posting, and most will be able to contribute more to the forum based on their experience. It makes sense to draw merit sources from that pool as well.
November 09, 2018, 08:34:07 AM
...
Most generous merit senders, all time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topsendat
Can compare these lists by the number of matches...
November 09, 2018, 08:29:02 AM
I see only those that have the most merit.
That does not show me who is awarding the top 50. I want to see if the top 50 is mostly awarding itself.
Or am I not seeing where this comparison and analysis can be looked at on that website?
I would like to also apply that to the top 100 and right down to the top 10.
November 09, 2018, 08:26:08 AM
November 09, 2018, 08:21:43 AM
I am wondering about 2 things on this forum regarding merit.
1. that high merit receivers are not those that have contributed the most to this board and the spirit of decentralised trustless projects.
(that is not what I want to study in this thread but that the first thing I want to make clear that I believe and that people should investigate full post histories to get an idea of the person they are dealing with)
2. That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members who are worthy of merit to enable them to legitimately move up ranks.
Who here can provide some analysis of this for presentation.
I would like to analyse the top 50 merit receivers on this board and see if the majority of their merit comes from other members of that 50.
We could drill that down to the top 25 or expand to the top 100.
I would be interested to see the results.
I have never taken much interest in this part of the board but due to some strange deletes lately, also due to some strange decisions I see happening in here and on the reputation board. I worry there is forming here a clique that is starting to act with impunity and in an unfair manner. This is not in the spirit of decentralisation and trustless arena we are trying to create.
I would also like to see which boards get the most merit action. This is very important too.
I am not encouraging discussion here of ANYTHING outside the scope of this OP. Anything other than the analysis of the merit given and received by the top 100 or less is OFF TOPIC.
This is not a thread that should really garner much opinion until the statistics are compiled and presented. Then we can discuss what it all means.
Who can whip up some nice charts to graphically visualise this??
This is not an accusation of wrong doing this is simply an exercise to see how the merit system is working out thus far.
1. that high merit receivers are not those that have contributed the most to this board and the spirit of decentralised trustless projects.
(that is not what I want to study in this thread but that the first thing I want to make clear that I believe and that people should investigate full post histories to get an idea of the person they are dealing with)
2. That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members who are worthy of merit to enable them to legitimately move up ranks.
Who here can provide some analysis of this for presentation.
I would like to analyse the top 50 merit receivers on this board and see if the majority of their merit comes from other members of that 50.
We could drill that down to the top 25 or expand to the top 100.
I would be interested to see the results.
I have never taken much interest in this part of the board but due to some strange deletes lately, also due to some strange decisions I see happening in here and on the reputation board. I worry there is forming here a clique that is starting to act with impunity and in an unfair manner. This is not in the spirit of decentralisation and trustless arena we are trying to create.
I would also like to see which boards get the most merit action. This is very important too.
I am not encouraging discussion here of ANYTHING outside the scope of this OP. Anything other than the analysis of the merit given and received by the top 100 or less is OFF TOPIC.
This is not a thread that should really garner much opinion until the statistics are compiled and presented. Then we can discuss what it all means.
Who can whip up some nice charts to graphically visualise this??
This is not an accusation of wrong doing this is simply an exercise to see how the merit system is working out thus far.
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