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Topic: Is the Merit System Generating Enough Merits? - page 2. (Read 812 times)

member
Activity: 154
Merit: 12
I think you should not answer such a non-sense question. The more rare merit system is, the more meritorious high-quality posts are.  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1253
So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)
Anyway, dont be too Focus about merits  and  rankings. Be thankful if anybody Will give merits to your post.
Means every two minutes of your online time you are going to visit your profile page on bitcointalk to check how many new merit points you have got? Roll Eyes

Quote
If no one did it, Its okay, make  a better post next time.
And if you dont get merited on the second post?
Quote
IM not good in English as what they always say that you must be perfect in English to get some merits. But most of those have merited are using Links for average people like me to understand of what they are saying in their  quotes  for  no more further details.
Let me be clear here because I dont want to sound like a troll.

I can understand the situation the newbies and junior members are into because of the merit system. But that does not mean you will stop contributing to the forum.

The forum is for people to ask questions and learn about the crypto world. It is not supposed to be a rank-up warzone to get into high paying signature campaigns. So keep it to that.

If you have something to contribute then do so. Otherwise dont come to this forum.
hero member
Activity: 2576
Merit: 883
Freebitco.in Support https://bit.ly/2I9BVS2
Theymos could've solved this problem the time he created the merit system.. He could've easily given every member merits based on activity and not ranks, for example: A full member like you who has 250 activity should have been given around 200 merits to start with not only 100 (the amount needed for member rank).
But he must have his reasons not to do so...

He answered this in another thread.

.....I considered giving merit proportional to activity, but I decided not to because doing so would probably give far more undeserved merit than deserved merit in total. But undoubtedly some people got screwed by this.....

I wouldn't agree with this reasoning but there it is.
member
Activity: 420
Merit: 10
If two years is what it takes someone to receive 125 merits, then yes, that's fair for that particular person. Particularly since merit and rank do not affect users' ability to participate on the forum. Ranking up is basically eye candy.

Why are so many users complaining like it would be some kind of basic human right to become legendary by posting stuff that no one but their own mother considers useful?

It's not "that particular person" it's the average member which means more than half the members of this forum have this problem and even if you are a better poster how much above average you think you'd be? will you get double the amount an average user gets? triple? it would still take you much more than it did in the old system.

I'm not complaining about the merit system I'm complaining about the very low amount of merits it produces..


 
Anyway, dont be too Focus about merits  and  rankings. Be thankful if anybody Will give merits to your post. If no one did it, Its okay, make  a better post next time. IM not good in English as what they always say that you must be perfect in English to get some merits. But most of those have merited are using Links for average people like me to understand of what they are saying in their  quotes  for  no more further details.
member
Activity: 133
Merit: 37
Maybe theymos will take a look about this idea, and increase the sMerit points for Hero members and legendary members (Which they are active and reputable), Or to increase the number of merit sources, which will be enough merit for each one to receive. Honestly, I didn't know how theymos choose the 57 merit sources, It's random or what? , I think there is some criteria if this is not RANDOM.

This is a great idea actually! if Legendary/Hero members would get 1 sMerit for every merit they receive instead of 0.5 it would distribute the responsibility of spending those merits instead of it being mostly put on sources.

I guess the merit sources where hand picked, knowing they're only 57 of them it won't be so hard to do.
Either way, "established members" can apply for being a merit source:

If you want to be a merit source:

 1. Be a somewhat established member.
 2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months by other people that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread. The point of this is to demonstrate your ability to give out merit usefully.
 3. We will take a look at your history and maybe make you a source.

I am especially eager to have merit sources in sub-communities such as the local sections.
full member
Activity: 532
Merit: 132
I don't need merits to rank up, but I do need sMerit so I can give merit to other people.
Being a "nice guy", I'm actually getting much less merit than I'm giving away.
I'll sooner or later run out, which is unfortunate, since I tend to reward people who make meaningful contributions to my threads.

This is the reason why Hero members and legendary members need to receive merit so they can distribute it all the same as other members. I imagine in a few months time or a year from now when we have an adequate number of merit sources receiving merit and redistributing it won't be a problem. 
Maybe theymos will take a look about this idea, and increase the sMerit points for Hero members and legendary members (Which they are active and reputable), Or to increase the number of merit sources, which will be enough merit for each one to receive. Honestly, I didn't know how theymos choose the 57 merit sources, It's random or what? , I think there is some criteria if this is not RANDOM.
staff
Activity: 3304
Merit: 4115
I don't need merits to rank up, but I do need sMerit so I can give merit to other people.
Being a "nice guy", I'm actually getting much less merit than I'm giving away.
I'll sooner or later run out, which is unfortunate, since I tend to reward people who make meaningful contributions to my threads.

This is the reason why Hero members and legendary members need to receive merit so they can distribute it all the same as other members. I imagine in a few months time or a year from now when we have an adequate number of merit sources receiving merit and redistributing it won't be a problem. 
member
Activity: 133
Merit: 37
I know that the purpose of this system is to create a better forum with better members but just imagine yourself a full member needing almost 2 years to get to senior. Is that fair?
Well, I am exactly in this situation. More of that I've reached Sr. Member rank by my activity in a short time after Merit system saw the light, so I count that totally unfair, cause on now with my current speed of earning merits the target seems just impossible. I think moderators should to think about those members who are on boarder between two ranks and to make the mission to them a little easier.


Theymos could've solved this problem the time he created the merit system.. He could've easily given every member merits based on activity and not ranks, for example: A full member like you who has 250 activity should have been given around 200 merits to start with not only 100 (the amount needed for member rank).
But he must have his reasons not to do so...

Well, I don't really see how they can be mad, they're newcomers to the community, and newcomers always have a hard time integrating or becoming established among well known members, this is true for all industries.

A hard time is something and 1, 2 or even more than 3 years for every rank upgrade is a totally different thing!


I thought that in the beginning, I was just a fresh Member when the Merit was introduced. I had some old good posts and started getting merit just keeping those up to date.

 I'm still a member but tomorrow evening I'll reach the needed activity points for Full Member, got enough merit til now to prove that the system is really working if you are helping the community in some way and stay away from shitposting. I guess these 30 points I'm missing will not be
a problem , but I'm not In hurry. I'll be happy to wear avatar some day.

As I like to say, "don't blame the system, blame yourself" is applicable here too Wink

Well, good for you being one of the high quality posters!
But let me remind you that you needed to post 3 times as much as your activity to get those merits.. Almost every member with merits enough to rank up soon after they got enough activity have posted 3 to 5 times their activity, which is 3 to 5 posts a day! Not all members can dedicate that much time for the forums...
On the other hand it makes activity totally useless if someone needed much more than the number of posts needed for maximum activity in order to get enough merits..

As I like to say, "don't blame the system, blame yourself" is applicable here too Wink

I guess it's partially applicable but I'm not blaming anyone.. I'm merely hoping for an improvement in the system.
Cuz u know if only the best posters get those merits and above average posters don't get them despite trying too hard to improve their posting quality will lead them to leave the forums in the end and we don't want that do we?
I believe the forums is not only for the very best members, but rather that it's for everyone who is willing to contribute!
member
Activity: 133
Merit: 37

Good analysis. I believe the merit system is still too young and it will be needed some time to all users to get used to it. Now, everyday I read publications abput how to get merit (mostly made by newbies), but I understand even in the higher ranks now it is really difficult to rank out, for example from hero to legendary.

It's for sure still too young and I think most users are having a hard time ranking up no matter what rank are they currently in.

It is time to create a kind of Merit-contest?? We can pick a topic and let the people talk about it, and see what happens...

Those kinds of contests are already taking place.. Like here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/learn-from-arts-old-topic-name-was-smerit-for-art-2957836
There are also people giving away merits to other members who refer them to an under-merited post of theirs.
As long as you have the sMerits to give away you can create one yourself!

The admins are letting people create merit contests/giveaways but first you'd need the merits to do so, leading us to the heart of the problem which is: There isn't enough merits!

Since new participants cannot able to analyze the quality post. High rank members have the knowledge to understand which one is quality post. If meriting option goes to less rank members it will become another spam here.

I never said that I wanted new members to be in charge of giving away merits..

Now Hilariousandco starting washing out the merit sellers and exchangers. You may find many people have bee tagged in this, Hope he will take this as a huge list.

Banning merit Sellers and exchangers would be of great help to us! As more merits will be available to legitimate users.
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 3150
₿uy / $ell ..oeleo ;(
I know that the purpose of this system is to create a better forum with better members but just imagine yourself a full member needing almost 2 years to get to senior. Is that fair?
Well, I am exactly in this situation. More of that I've reached Sr. Member rank by my activity in a short time after Merit system saw the light, so I count that totally unfair, cause on now with my current speed of earning merits the target seems just impossible. I think moderators should to think about those members who are on boarder between two ranks and to make the mission to them a little easier.

I thought that in the beginning, I was just a fresh Member when the Merit was introduced. I had some old good posts and started getting merit just keeping those up to date.

 I'm still a member but tomorrow evening I'll reach the needed activity points for Full Member, got enough merit til now to prove that the system is really working if you are helping the community in some way and stay away from shitposting. I guess these 30 points I'm missing will not be
a problem , but I'm not In hurry. I'll be happy to wear avatar some day.

As I like to say, "don't blame the system, blame yourself" is applicable here too Wink
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 508
Make winning bets on sports with Sportsbet.io!
Well, I don't really see how they can be mad, they're newcomers to the community, and newcomers always have a hard time integrating or becoming established among well known members, this is true for all industries. I do believe the initial entry barriers are slightly too high, but I've always believed that Hero and Legendary member status should only be reserved for people clearly established in the community, those that contribute greatly to the forum and offer value. It shouldn't simply be a post good quality material thing, but something like a privilege bestowed by the mods, community votes or admins. Or perhaps it should be something like, the top 10% of merit earners per rank are eligible to rank up immediately after reaching the activity requirement.
full member
Activity: 658
Merit: 152
I know that the purpose of this system is to create a better forum with better members but just imagine yourself a full member needing almost 2 years to get to senior. Is that fair?
Well, I am exactly in this situation. More of that I've reached Sr. Member rank by my activity in a short time after Merit system saw the light, so I count that totally unfair, cause on now with my current speed of earning merits the target seems just impossible. I think moderators should to think about those members who are on boarder between two ranks and to make the mission to them a little easier.
qwk
donator
Activity: 3542
Merit: 3413
Shitcoin Minimalist
Legendary members get 8% x 24k = 1920 merits which they don't need to rank up.
I don't need merits to rank up, but I do need sMerit so I can give merit to other people.
Being a "nice guy", I'm actually getting much less merit than I'm giving away.
I'll sooner or later run out, which is unfortunate, since I tend to reward people who make meaningful contributions to my threads.
legendary
Activity: 2814
Merit: 1192
I think the issue is that on some forums lots of merits are given out - eg posting on Meta.

On other forums hardly any merits are given out (speculation, trading, altcoins and bitcoin discussion).

That means that if you want merits you need to post exclusively in Meta.

A potential solution is to get merit sources to "patrol" a specific forum to award good posts. That way, the distribution will be more even.

Unfortunately, I've noticed that there are some sections that get much more attention from users who have a lot of merit and who are willing to give their merit away.
If you help newbies in beginners and help your chances of being merited are much lower than if you do the same thing in technical discussion usually because those newbies will have no merit to share. As for meta, I can agree with you because most if not all of my merit was earned here.
hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 537
Since new participants cannot able to analyze the quality post. High rank members have the knowledge to understand which one is quality post. If meriting option goes to less rank members it will become another spam here.

Now Hilariousandco starting washing out the merit sellers and exchangers. You may find many people have bee tagged in this, Hope he will take this as a huge list.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 3
I think the issue is that on some forums lots of merits are given out - eg posting on Meta.

On other forums hardly any merits are given out (speculation, trading, altcoins and bitcoin discussion).

That means that if you want merits you need to post exclusively in Meta.

A potential solution is to get merit sources to "patrol" a specific forum to award good posts. That way, the distribution will be more even.
legendary
Activity: 3346
Merit: 3130
First of all I wanna thank zentdex for his great analysis about how many merits each rank - on average - gains a month. I used some of the data he provided in his post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/3-merit-stat-after-a-month-of-merit-3015036

Now to my point:
I took my time to do the math and see how many members can the current merit system sustain and here are the results:

SUMMARY

https://imgur.com/a/snYsn




First of all let me remind you of rank requirements:

Newbie:           1 activity                   and     0 merits
Jr. Member:      30 activity                 and     0 merits
Member:          60 activity                 and     10 merits         needs 2 months to get the activity
Full Member:    120 activity               and     100 merits       needs 4 months to get the activity
Sr. Member:      240 activity               and     250 merits      needs 8 months to get the activity
Hero Member:   480 activity               and     500 merits      who knows?  Tongue  around 12 months
Legendary:       775 - 1030 activity     and     1000 merits




There are currently - at the time of this post - 57 merit sources with a total merit generation of up to 11975 sMerit per 30 days. Those are the merits generated by sources only, and given that a member can send half the merits he receives and imagining the best case scenario where every member sends all the merits he receives, the total amount of merits generated by the system would double to 23950 sMerit per 30 days. So, roughly 24k sMerit per month.

Now to the boring math:

Based on Zentdex's analysis the 24k merits are distributed between ranks in the following manner:
Legendary: 8%
Hero: 8%
Sr. Member: 14%
Full Member: 16%
Member: 19%
Jr. Member and Newbie: 23 + 11 = 34%


So...
Legendary members get 8% x 24k = 1920 merits which they don't need to rank up.
Hero members get the same amount 1920 which is enough for 1920/500 = 3.84 members to rank up every month. The No. of Hero members the system can sustain: 3.84 x 12 = 46.08
Sr. members get 14% x 24k = 3360 which is enough for 3360/250 = 13.44 members every month. The No. of Sr. members the system can sustain: 13.44 x 8 = 107.52
Full Members get 16% x 24k = 3840 which is enough for 3840/150 = 25.6 members every month. The No. of Full members the system can sustain: 25.6 x 4 = 102.4
Members get 19% x 24k = 4560 which is enough for 4560/90 = 50.67 members every month. The No. of Members the system can sustain:  50.67 x 2 = 101.34
Jr. Members and Newbies get 34% x 24k = 8160 which is enough for 816 members every month.

The time needed to rank up is easily acquired by dividing the amount needed to rank up by the average merits gained per month.

Conclusion (my opinion):
The amount of merits produced by the system is too very low, as we've seen that it would take an average member 3 to 5 times the time it took him to rank up in the previous system, I know that the purpose of this system is to create a better forum with better members but just imagine yourself a full member needing almost 2 years to get to senior. Is that fair? How frustrated you'd be?
Not to mention that I described the best case scenario and didn't go into calculating all the sMerits that are horded and not used and the merits that are sold on black markets.


Good analysis. I believe the merit system is still too young and it will be needed some time to all users to get used to it. Now, everyday I read publications abput how to get merit (mostly made by newbies), but I understand even in the higher ranks now it is really difficult to rank out, for example from hero to legendary.
Due to the preocupation rising here in the forum about merits, I feel this is the right time to begin a campaign or something, a kind of contest, where people can participate and the better publications earn some merits. I think this will encourage people to write about important stuff rather of asking or begging for merits. What do you people think about?
It is time to create a kind of Merit-contest?? We can pick a topic and let the people talk about it, and see what happens...
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 1375
Slava Ukraini!
I think we need to give some time to Merit system, only one month passed. If theymos will see that there aren't enough sMerits generated, he just will add more Merit sources.
I think there is another issue that we have. Just visit Bitcoin Discussion, Altcoin Discussion, Bounties, Politics & Society or another spammy board, open several profiles of Full Members and above and you will find that mostly of them haven't sent any of their sMerit so far. It means that there are still so many users who still aren't aware about Merit system and just holding their sMerit without knowing about it.
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 3150
₿uy / $ell ..oeleo ;(
You can see the image here: https://i.imgur.com/BGE88BT.png

Looks like it's deleted. :
Code:
Zoinks! You've taken a wrong turn.

Edited>  Now it's working Smiley
member
Activity: 133
Merit: 37
OK, let me add some calculations too then.

We stated with 35 Merit Sources (MS for short) on the first day of the Merit system.

On 26th Jan. were already 49 MS. /reference/
Today they are 57 MS.
So for one month from 35 till 57 this is 22 new sources, awesome but...

14 were added for 1 day, so we exclude them to be more realistic /see the reference link above/

Then there are minimum around 8 new MS added per Month!

Since this is the first and only month till now and the data is not enough, we need to give more time to the system to actually see how it is working.
Now it's just speculations.



P.S. The image in the OP is not loading.

You can see the image here: https://i.imgur.com/BGE88BT.png

You're right.. I only hope that it will cope with the huge number of accounts on this forum. We'll wait and see  Wink

Edit: sorry about the image, here you go this should work: https://imgur.com/a/snYsn
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