Is the MTGox - Coinlab deal in trouble? Yes. It is in litigation! - page 3.

optimator

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Quote from: lebing on March 18, 2013, 10:03:48 AM

It is legally grey as a currency. As an asset its very clear - when it increases above what you paid for it, you are supposed to pay taxes on that.

IANAA.... but in the US when an asset appreciates (gold, stocks, etc) you don't pay taxes on the appreciated value. You only pay taxes on the appreciated value when you sell it.

Rygon

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Quote from: inbox on March 18, 2013, 10:07:51 AM

Too bad I lost all my bitcoins on a unfortunate internet super highway accident.

I lost it all on Satoshi Dice. Cheesy

Rygon

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Why would you want to trade bitcoin back to fiat?

And for those with a half million in USD worth of bitcoin, where 99% of it is considered profit, I would assume they would be looking to make "investement" in big screen TVs (bitcoinstore.com) or cars. Ironically, holders of bitcoin looking to exchange for fiat might help expand the marketplace for bitcoin, in an effort to hide income.

Severian

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Quote from: lebing on March 18, 2013, 10:50:44 AM

It might be easy to create an unauditable trail for 1k dollars... not so much for 500k. Then again, thats a good problem to have I suppose.

The guys buying half a mill worth of Bitcoins already have their balls in the IRS vice. They won't wander far from the reservation anyway.

It's us hoi-polloi leaving ourselves open to the wolves that worry me. If the political powers ever decide to crackdown on Bitcoin users, all of those Coinbase, Gox, etc. customers that gave up details are in the crosshairs.

siulynot

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Severian

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Quote from: RodeoX on March 18, 2013, 10:45:53 AM

To be clear, bitcoin was not invented so that you may evade taxes.

According to the creator, it was made to "win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of
freedom for several years."

If you can find the "don't forget to pay your taxes" part of the Bitcoin code, please indicate it.

lebing

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Enabling the maximal migration

Quote from: Severian on March 18, 2013, 10:38:38 AM

Quote from: lebing on March 18, 2013, 10:36:58 AM

If audited, you will have to explain how you sent 1k to japan and received 5 back. Doesnt matter where it came from.

What idiot leaves an auditable trail in Bitcoin? It was created to allow your financial life to be private.

It might be easy to create an unauditable trail for 1k dollars... not so much for 500k. Then again, thats a good problem to have I suppose.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: Severian on March 18, 2013, 10:38:38 AM

Quote from: lebing on March 18, 2013, 10:36:58 AM

If audited, you will have to explain how you sent 1k to japan and received 5 back. Doesnt matter where it came from.

What idiot leaves an auditable trail in Bitcoin? It was created to allow your financial life to be private.

To be clear, bitcoin was not invented so that you may evade taxes. You are absolutely responsible for paying your taxes. Failure to do so can result in the same fines and prison time as any other criminal.
If you don't want to pay your share of tax, then work through your elected officials and change the tax law. There is *basically no such thing as tax free income in the U.S.

Severian

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Quote from: coqui33 on March 18, 2013, 10:40:55 AM

you have the civic duty as a citizen to voluntarily fill out the appropriate forms and report yourself to the government. Failure to do so is a federal crime.

We have a civic duty to upend the dominant political and economic system. That's what Bitcoin was created for.

Severian

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Quote from: humanitee on March 18, 2013, 10:40:19 AM

Just because I ask the question doesn't mean I intend to do it. I just want to know the legality of it.

That "you" was meant in the universal sense, not in the humanitee sense. Apologies for confusion.

My meaning is that we have a tool to protect us from predators and I see people practically begging to tell the predators exactly how much meat will be supplied by their corpse. That's idiotic.

nobbynobbynoob

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Annuit cœptis humanae libertas

If you draw fiat through the US banking systems, the IRS can find out about it. Enter localbitcoins.com and the like. You should just pay all your taxes to your wonderful, benevolent government, however, because, you know, they give you free health care and edumakation and roadz, OMG roadz! And they protect you from those bad terrists too. Grin

coqui33

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FWIW, here is are two paragraphs from a bitcoin explanation that I wrote some time ago (at http://ccwvslaw.org/item/1652):

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Bitcoins are transferred directly and privately from one person to another. Unlike the transfer of gold, stocks, or bonds, you need not involve a bank or broker. This means that no one will ask you to prove your source of funds and demand that you fill out U.S. federal form 8300 if the value of the transaction exceeds $10,000. No banker or broker will secretly report the transfer on federal form 4789. No one will secretly report on federal form 4790 that the transfer crossed national borders. Finally, no one will send the IRS a copy of form 1099 reporting that you paid $100 for bitcoins, then sold them for $150, thereby owing capital gains taxes on $50.

On the other hand, although bitcons’ privacy makes it hard for the government to look over your shoulder, this does not reduce your taxpayer obligation. If you transact bitcoins in a way that uses over $10,000 in currency or that transfers that amount across a national border, or if you sell bitcoins (or anything else, for that matter) for more than you paid, then you have the civic duty as a citizen to voluntarily fill out the appropriate forms and report yourself to the government. Failure to do so is a federal crime.

Just sayin..

humanitee

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Quote from: Severian on March 18, 2013, 10:32:33 AM

Quote from: humanitee on March 18, 2013, 10:22:21 AM

Oh well. Here's another question.. If you don't cash out, do you have to pay taxes?

Even if you do cash out, what idiot would pay taxes on bitcoins?

Just because I ask the question doesn't mean I intend to do it. I just want to know the legality of it.

Severian

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Quote from: lebing on March 18, 2013, 10:36:58 AM

If audited, you will have to explain how you sent 1k to japan and received 5 back. Doesnt matter where it came from.

What idiot leaves an auditable trail in Bitcoin? It was created to allow your financial life to be private.

lebing

legendary

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Enabling the maximal migration

Quote from: Severian on March 18, 2013, 10:32:33 AM

Quote from: humanitee on March 18, 2013, 10:22:21 AM

Oh well. Here's another question.. If you don't cash out, do you have to pay taxes?

Even if you do cash out, what idiot would pay taxes on bitcoins?

If audited, you will have to explain how you sent 1k to japan and received 5 back. Doesnt matter where it came from.

Severian

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: humanitee on March 18, 2013, 10:22:21 AM

Oh well. Here's another question.. If you don't cash out, do you have to pay taxes?

Even if you do cash out, what idiot would pay taxes on bitcoins?

humanitee

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Thank you for clarifying.

I was hoping you had a link with some techno-wizardry that said "no."

Oh well. Here's another question.. If you don't cash out, do you have to pay taxes?

Severian

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Quote from: humanitee on March 18, 2013, 10:22:21 AM

Then say why.

I see the "you're supposed to pay your taxes" meme thrown around here like it's a magic charm or a spell uttered by the superstitious against an evil spirit. I wish people would grow a pair and, at least internally, ignore the fuckers that would tax them. You now have a tool that protects you from banks and their vassal governments. Act like it.

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Great response. Roll Eyes