Is the spam the issue or are miners flat out ignoring transactions with fees?

omahapoker

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Quote from: Kprawn on July 13, 2015, 01:30:54 AM

In a way, you must understand the miners view on this... Why spend the same resources on transactions with little fee's, if you can spend that same resources to get to the juicy transactions with the higher fee's.

Sure, they want to earn more and that is their right to do. Though you know some miners don't even include transactions at all. And they do this because the small transaction can be propagated faster, which means an advantage against bigger blocks. So when i would be a miner then i would not take transactions that have a nice fee but are huge. Because then the block would propagate faster, which might lose me more money than fee i gained.

spazzdla

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you COULD buy an asic and start mining....

xmasdobo

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Quote from: Hopalong on July 14, 2015, 04:41:31 AM

Quote from: ajareselde on July 09, 2015, 04:51:18 PM

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on July 09, 2015, 04:43:27 PM

Quote from: ajareselde on July 09, 2015, 04:37:38 PM

On the other hand ; you may want to ask the question on who is to blame?

It appears to be the miners to blame.

Is it time to switch Bitcoin to Proof of Stake and fuck them all six ways from Sunday?

If they won't move our transactions... then fuck them too.

Proof of Stake is not the answer, because it promotes the idea of rich getting richer, which is against bitcoin's agenda.
The solution to this problem is for developers to start developing, or we can close the curtain and end this one-man-show.

cheers

Rich getting richer is exactly what bitcoin is about. Poor people around the world is never going to see bitcoins.

Meanwhile..

http://www.coinfox.info/news/2408-bitsoko

SebastianJu

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Quote from: Kprawn on July 14, 2015, 01:45:44 AM

I think it will become worst in the near future. {2016} We will have a halving of the block reward, and the miners will need more fee's to make up for the reduced coins.

This experiment already gave them the taste for more fee's and also the information on how to do it.

I predict a increase in the use of alternative payment channel services like Xapo, where off-chain transactions with instant confirmations can be done. This might be the only method to counter higher

miners fee's, from people sabotaging the blockchain for their own benefit. These services will have to increase security for that to happen, and they will also need to bump up their protection against Doss attacks. {A lot of pissed off miners will start to target them, to force people to use the Blockchain}

Who says that miners need to earn the same they earn now? The fees are nowhere near replacing the block reward. So miners will have a hard time and they need to stop using some miners.

Advancing tech cant help very much there.

It would be really hefty when miners try to get the same reward they get now. They would need to add 12.5 Bitcoins in fee per block. That would be deadly to bitcoin and to the miners at the end. But when i see how levelheaded scammers and forking miners are acting then i wonder if they would think about that at all. Roll Eyes

Hopalong

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Quote from: ajareselde on July 09, 2015, 04:51:18 PM

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on July 09, 2015, 04:43:27 PM

Quote from: ajareselde on July 09, 2015, 04:37:38 PM

On the other hand ; you may want to ask the question on who is to blame?

It appears to be the miners to blame.

Is it time to switch Bitcoin to Proof of Stake and fuck them all six ways from Sunday?

If they won't move our transactions... then fuck them too.

Proof of Stake is not the answer, because it promotes the idea of rich getting richer, which is against bitcoin's agenda.
The solution to this problem is for developers to start developing, or we can close the curtain and end this one-man-show.

cheers

Rich getting richer is exactly what bitcoin is about. Poor people around the world is never going to see bitcoins.

S4VV4S

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Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on July 13, 2015, 08:20:52 PM

Quote from: S4VV4S on July 13, 2015, 06:23:50 AM

Quote from: Kprawn on July 13, 2015, 01:30:54 AM

In a way, you must understand the miners view on this... Why spend the same resources on transactions with little fee's, if you can spend that same resources to get to the juicy transactions with the higher fee's.

The odd thing about this is... This will become a more frequent thing now... If this is the miners doing this, they would do this again and again.. They have changed the behaviour of the crowd in their favor.

People are now forced to pay higher fees, to get their transactions confirmed quicker... and the miners now realized this.. and this situation will repeat itself in future.

The developers should just stuff them, and increase the block size once and for all. Angry

I don't think the miners really care that much about transaction fees right now.
I think they care most about the block reward.

However like you said: Why spend the same resources on transactions with little fee's, if you can spend that same resources to get to the juicy transactions with the higher fee's.
It's business Wink

I understand that eventually a fee market will come into play. But there has to be a limit. Where does it end? That's what I want to know.

Where does it end?!

Imagine fees becoming so high and spam becoming so unruly that people just start mailing their privkey by UPS? Undecided

By the time fees become important for miners the fees should be enough.
By then I expect Bitcoin to be mass adopted therefor fees should be adequate.
I doubt I will be around to witness that by that time, but my guess is that, that is how it is going to be.

ragi

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Quote from: BayAreaCoins on July 12, 2015, 06:04:01 PM

They look nice and full now, but when the post was made the blocks were going through like 1/3 full and other fuckery like that.

Check again.

Kprawn

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I think it will become worst in the near future. {2016} We will have a halving of the block reward, and the miners will need more fee's to make up for the reduced coins.

This experiment already gave them the taste for more fee's and also the information on how to do it.

I predict a increase in the use of alternative payment channel services like Xapo, where off-chain transactions with instant confirmations can be done. This might be the only method to counter higher

miners fee's, from people sabotaging the blockchain for their own benefit. These services will have to increase security for that to happen, and they will also need to bump up their protection against Doss attacks. {A lot of pissed off miners will start to target them, to force people to use the Blockchain}

BlindMayorBitcorn

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Quote from: S4VV4S on July 13, 2015, 06:23:50 AM

Quote from: Kprawn on July 13, 2015, 01:30:54 AM

In a way, you must understand the miners view on this... Why spend the same resources on transactions with little fee's, if you can spend that same resources to get to the juicy transactions with the higher fee's.

The odd thing about this is... This will become a more frequent thing now... If this is the miners doing this, they would do this again and again.. They have changed the behaviour of the crowd in their favor.

People are now forced to pay higher fees, to get their transactions confirmed quicker... and the miners now realized this.. and this situation will repeat itself in future.

The developers should just stuff them, and increase the block size once and for all. Angry

I don't think the miners really care that much about transaction fees right now.
I think they care most about the block reward.

However like you said: Why spend the same resources on transactions with little fee's, if you can spend that same resources to get to the juicy transactions with the higher fee's.
It's business Wink

I understand that eventually a fee market will come into play. But there has to be a limit. Where does it end? That's what I want to know.

Where does it end?!

Imagine fees becoming so high and spam becoming so unruly that people just start mailing their privkey by UPS? Undecided

S4VV4S

hero member

Activity: 1582

Merit: 502

Quote from: Kprawn on July 13, 2015, 01:30:54 AM

In a way, you must understand the miners view on this... Why spend the same resources on transactions with little fee's, if you can spend that same resources to get to the juicy transactions with the higher fee's.

The odd thing about this is... This will become a more frequent thing now... If this is the miners doing this, they would do this again and again.. They have changed the behaviour of the crowd in their favor.

People are now forced to pay higher fees, to get their transactions confirmed quicker... and the miners now realized this.. and this situation will repeat itself in future.

The developers should just stuff them, and increase the block size once and for all. Angry

I don't think the miners really care that much about transaction fees right now.
I think they care most about the block reward.

However like you said: Why spend the same resources on transactions with little fee's, if you can spend that same resources to get to the juicy transactions with the higher fee's.
It's business Wink

Kprawn

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1074

In a way, you must understand the miners view on this... Why spend the same resources on transactions with little fee's, if you can spend that same resources to get to the juicy transactions with the higher fee's.

The odd thing about this is... This will become a more frequent thing now... If this is the miners doing this, they would do this again and again.. They have changed the behaviour of the crowd in their favor.

People are now forced to pay higher fees, to get their transactions confirmed quicker... and the miners now realized this.. and this situation will repeat itself in future.

The developers should just stuff them, and increase the block size once and for all. Angry

BayAreaCoins

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Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: ArticMine on July 12, 2015, 05:58:27 PM

Take a look at https://blockchain.info/ and the size of blocks. Miners are forced to ignore transactions with fees due to the 1 MB blocksize limit.

They look nice and full now, but when the post was made the blocks were going through like 1/3 full and other fuckery like that.

ArticMine

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Monero Core Team

Take a look at https://blockchain.info/ and the size of blocks. Miners are forced to ignore transactions with fees due to the 1 MB blocksize limit.

Panthers52

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#SuperBowl50 #NFCchamps

The miners are prioritizing transactions based on how large the tx fee paid is verses how much of the block the transaction will take to confirm. If someone were to pay a higher fee on a per kb basis then it will most likely receive a higher priority then someone who pays a lower fee on the same basis.

Transaction fees on a per kb basis are generally higher then they were in the past and very few no fee transactions are getting confirmed currently. Many wallet programs will advise you how large of a tx fee to include based on the size of the transaction, however this is almost always based on the setting you have set (or what are set by default if you did have not changed such settings) so if too low a setting is selected, your wallet software will advise you to include too low of a fee.

NorrisK

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Quote from: ajareselde on July 09, 2015, 04:37:38 PM

However you turn this around, transaction spam is a major problem. On the other hand ; you may want to ask the question on who is to blame?
It's funny how this is happening since the fix for this was proposed more than three years ago by Coblee, why it didn't get implemented is beyond me.

cheers

Fixing the blocksize limit would be the perfect time to implement the now tested fix from Coblee then! Should be on the list imo.

omahapoker

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The miners are greedy, that's why many blocks aren't filled.

First, some miners did not yet found out how to set the setting that 1MB blocks are allowed, i have read so. 750KB blocks following. Roll Eyes

Second, some miners only accept transactions with big fees. They want to enforce people paying higher fees.

Third, some miners implement no transactions at all. They want to have an advantage in propagating their own block. Because it's way faster to propagate an empty block through all nodes, and reach >51% acceptance for that block than sending a 1MB block through all nodes. Such a small block could orphan a big block since he is faster.

So blame it on the greediness of miners.

BayAreaCoins

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Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: ajareselde on July 09, 2015, 04:51:18 PM

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on July 09, 2015, 04:43:27 PM

Quote from: ajareselde on July 09, 2015, 04:37:38 PM

On the other hand ; you may want to ask the question on who is to blame?

It appears to be the miners to blame.

Is it time to switch Bitcoin to Proof of Stake and fuck them all six ways from Sunday?

If they won't move our transactions... then fuck them too.

Proof of Stake is not the answer, because it promotes the idea of rich getting richer, which is against bitcoin's agenda.
The solution to this problem is for developers to start developing, or we can close the curtain and end this one-man-show.

cheers

Proof of Stake rewards those who take the risk of holding and securing the network. They are talking the risk of the price and so they should be rewarded if there is a reward.

Bitcoin right now only makes the fat cat electric company, those who steal power and crooked mining companies rich.

What do the users get in return? "New" miners that have only been "tested" and a centralized coin that won't even confirm transactions.

ajareselde

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Satoshi is rolling in his grave. #bitcoin

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on July 09, 2015, 04:43:27 PM

Quote from: ajareselde on July 09, 2015, 04:37:38 PM

On the other hand ; you may want to ask the question on who is to blame?

It appears to be the miners to blame.

Is it time to switch Bitcoin to Proof of Stake and fuck them all six ways from Sunday?

If they won't move our transactions... then fuck them too.

Proof of Stake is not the answer, because it promotes the idea of rich getting richer, which is against bitcoin's agenda.
The solution to this problem is for developers to start developing, or we can close the curtain and end this one-man-show.

cheers

BayAreaCoins

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Activity: 4004

Merit: 1250

Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: ajareselde on July 09, 2015, 04:37:38 PM

On the other hand ; you may want to ask the question on who is to blame?

It appears to be the miners to blame.

Is it time to switch Bitcoin to Proof of Stake and fuck them all six ways from Sunday?

If they won't move our transactions... then fuck them too.

ajareselde

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1000

Satoshi is rolling in his grave. #bitcoin

However you turn this around, transaction spam is a major problem. On the other hand ; you may want to ask the question on who is to blame?
It's funny how this is happening since the fix for this was proposed more than three years ago by Coblee, why it didn't get implemented is beyond me.

cheers

Topic: Is the spam the issue or are miners flat out ignoring transactions with fees? (Read 1258 times)