Topic: Is there any chance of having any "fiat" like system that is backed by Bitcoin? (Read 1279 times)
December 25, 2016, 07:57:24 AM
Even understanding the main reason under this, thats is give people the option to use bitcoin as a fiat currencie, some people really doesnt like to wait for their transaction, but for me makes no sense at all countries and big corporations are interested into make their own crypto currencie, soo why whould bitcoin do the reverse thing?
December 25, 2016, 07:41:42 AM
I know that central bankers and people in power are not going to want anything like this to come to life; but I would like to think of a world where this is possible. Even if it's just entertaining the idea and nothing will come of it.
I mean theoretically it could be done though. In past human history, and even recent history, banks would have notes that would represent, or guarantee the person accepting the note, that it would be redeemable to get X amount of gold or silver for that note and or currency in general. It worked for a while, until governments and banks had the incentive to keep the precious metals for themselves and overprint their currency to help fund wars, or "pay off debts", etc; thereby making people placing value in the notes in terms of having "trust' in the American/global economy.
Now what would happen if you could create a fiat system where you could just strap the gold or silver to the note itself?
Would it technically be possible to have a system in government where we send Bitcoin, or even another cryptocurrency, to an address that is attached to the note it self?
I know that there are already things that have been created for stuff like this; such as OpenDime and Satoshi Notes. But, I'm curious as to what you guys think would be a "do-able system" if something like the fiat system were to collapse and there were need for a new currency for the masses... since block size limits probably wouldn't allow for that high of tx/sec.
I mean theoretically it could be done though. In past human history, and even recent history, banks would have notes that would represent, or guarantee the person accepting the note, that it would be redeemable to get X amount of gold or silver for that note and or currency in general. It worked for a while, until governments and banks had the incentive to keep the precious metals for themselves and overprint their currency to help fund wars, or "pay off debts", etc; thereby making people placing value in the notes in terms of having "trust' in the American/global economy.
Now what would happen if you could create a fiat system where you could just strap the gold or silver to the note itself?
Would it technically be possible to have a system in government where we send Bitcoin, or even another cryptocurrency, to an address that is attached to the note it self?
I know that there are already things that have been created for stuff like this; such as OpenDime and Satoshi Notes. But, I'm curious as to what you guys think would be a "do-able system" if something like the fiat system were to collapse and there were need for a new currency for the masses... since block size limits probably wouldn't allow for that high of tx/sec.
In theoretically, it can't be done. Bitcoin and fiat will always separate as the way it is.
Fiat can't backed by bitcoin, simply can't be done and government planning to have their own digitalize fiat.
What makes bitcoin interesting because it's separated from any central banks.
December 25, 2016, 06:56:02 AM
I think it is not possible at this point of time that fiat currency be backed up by bitcoin. But i have my own view, a currency online that will represent the actual value of fiat currency in the real world.
But your idea can be done and it is possible, but the question is when will it happen or when will society be ready to such kind of financial systems. Only time will tell I guess.
But your idea can be done and it is possible, but the question is when will it happen or when will society be ready to such kind of financial systems. Only time will tell I guess.
Yeah. everything is the point of the time. Now sociaity is not ready to work like you say, but who knows - the idea seems good.
December 25, 2016, 06:34:59 AM
No i dont think it is backed back any digital cryptocurrency .maybe side by side there will be development of any other digital cryptocurrency.banks may back it up witth gold.
November 14, 2016, 09:53:38 AM
Just to be clear here, you want another fiat currency that can be manipulated by governments < Flexible Cap > so that they can print < create tokens > without limits, like they are doing it now with Fiat money? How will that be a improvement on the current system?
Governments have already shown that they cannot be trusted with the creation of money. They print it like toilet paper and it decrease in value. You need something like Bitcoin, with a fixed amount of tokens and participation from the public to determine it's value/cap for it to be successful.
Governments have already shown that they cannot be trusted with the creation of money. They print it like toilet paper and it decrease in value. You need something like Bitcoin, with a fixed amount of tokens and participation from the public to determine it's value/cap for it to be successful.
That is what I understands with what he means. Something like a physical bitcoin. If it hs a physical coin,I think it is possible for goverment to confiscate and it may seems like illegal. I think it is not a good idea,a debit card is ok for me.
November 14, 2016, 09:17:07 AM
Just to be clear here, you want another fiat currency that can be manipulated by governments < Flexible Cap > so that they can print < create tokens > without limits, like they are doing it now with Fiat money? How will that be a improvement on the current system?
Governments have already shown that they cannot be trusted with the creation of money. They print it like toilet paper and it decrease in value. You need something like Bitcoin, with a fixed amount of tokens and participation from the public to determine it's value/cap for it to be successful.
Governments have already shown that they cannot be trusted with the creation of money. They print it like toilet paper and it decrease in value. You need something like Bitcoin, with a fixed amount of tokens and participation from the public to determine it's value/cap for it to be successful.
i dont want that. im just explaining what the banking cartel are doing.
too many people are defending blockstream and seeing hyperledger as the way forward for bitcoin. im just throwing info out to show what the banking cartels are doing. not what we should be wanting.
i want bitcoin to remain as an asset currency with no barrier to entr, no barrier to utility as the open choice to stay separate and away the risks of the banking cartels hyperledger
knowing your enemy is better then not knowing it and pretending you will win the battle by default.
i find it strange how people ar playing into the bankers hands and wanting to squeeze bitcoin into a limb of the banking cartel
as for increasing the supply.. this is already being proposed by blockstream
they are changing the real hard coded units of measure in the future. but hiding it from sight at the users GUI/frontend.
satoshi CODED bitcoin to produce
5000000000 units per block initially, then halve every 210000blocks. it was only a human mind. not code that converts this unit of measure to 50btc for human GUI purposes
currently at code level we are making
1250000000 units of measure a block
as part of LN. and future bitcoin node code that will change to
1250000000000 units of measure a block
but at GUI level it will be 12.50000000,000
meaning although people can say there are still 21mill (GUI measures of btc cap)
at code level
2100000000000000 units of measure will be
2100000000000000000 units of measure
thats right bitcoin loses its fixed 100000000 unit of measure status
extending mining beyond the year 2140.
but hey lets now watch blockstream/banker defenders call it a good thing because the GUI tells users its still a 21m cap. even if there are 1000x more individual units that can handed out.
when this kind of thing is don on wallstreet, its called share dilution.
November 14, 2016, 01:38:49 AM
Just to be clear here, you want another fiat currency that can be manipulated by governments < Flexible Cap > so that they can print < create tokens > without limits, like they are doing it now with Fiat money? How will that be a improvement on the current system?
Governments have already shown that they cannot be trusted with the creation of money. They print it like toilet paper and it decrease in value. You need something like Bitcoin, with a fixed amount of tokens and participation from the public to determine it's value/cap for it to be successful.
Governments have already shown that they cannot be trusted with the creation of money. They print it like toilet paper and it decrease in value. You need something like Bitcoin, with a fixed amount of tokens and participation from the public to determine it's value/cap for it to be successful.
November 13, 2016, 06:26:13 PM
Yeah, I just now started looking at the stuff on the main website; and under the finance section the biggest thing that popped out to me is when it said it's goal is to "increase transparency" in the financial market. That is perhaps the worst, most malicious thing that we could hand over on a silver platter to governments.
This is the kind of things tyrants dream of; a way to always be able to see who's sending money where and have a way to stop them if it doesn't please them. They could single handedly control people by forcing them to make it illegal to purchase anything from "Mom and Pop's general store" and force them to buy things from "Walmart" if Walmart CEO's give political figures incentives for doing so and passing those type of laws.
Cryptocurrencies need to be permissively transparent... not forced to be transparent on default.
This is the kind of things tyrants dream of; a way to always be able to see who's sending money where and have a way to stop them if it doesn't please them. They could single handedly control people by forcing them to make it illegal to purchase anything from "Mom and Pop's general store" and force them to buy things from "Walmart" if Walmart CEO's give political figures incentives for doing so and passing those type of laws.
Cryptocurrencies need to be permissively transparent... not forced to be transparent on default.
its not about transparency as in every customers account balance is transparent to the public.
its not to make customer accounts "public".. but sell customer details privately (including access to balance and spending data) to the highest bidder. much the same as how google and facebook sell personal data. even when users have their profiles private to the public that data can still be sold behind the scenes
theres other parts that they can be more transparent about how they make their money (previously as loans<-> money creation) so thy can sell this money creation and monkey making, as a sellable service itself. rather than the previous hidden policy that meant they had to keep bank secrets a secret
November 13, 2016, 05:48:47 PM
its no secret.
hyperledger.
they have been very public about it.
oh and guess who is programming it.. blockstream, yep. gmaxwell and chums.
This is the kind of things tyrants dream of; a way to always be able to see who's sending money where and have a way to stop them if it doesn't please them. They could single handedly control people by forcing them to make it illegal to purchase anything from "Mom and Pop's general store" and force them to buy things from "Walmart" if Walmart CEO's give political figures incentives for doing so and passing those type of laws.
Cryptocurrencies need to be permissively transparent... not forced to be transparent on default.
November 13, 2016, 04:18:52 PM
Something like this would be incredibly easy to implement for the most part; just have stores of Bitcoin and have the bank notes have something on them detailing the exchange rate for a note to Bitcoin. Nothing too hard beyond any of that.
It's easy to back something. Just have a good and a constant exchange rate.
It's easy to back something. Just have a good and a constant exchange rate.
November 13, 2016, 04:02:36 PM
In order to do that, you need majority to use bitcoin as an everyday currency. Unless it happens, it is not possible.
Bitcoin is already backed by the FIAT system. If anyone says the otherwise, he/she is lying.
If you want to use FIAT backed by bitcoin, just use USD. It backs everything out there.
This is the main thing I want to point out. What I was trying to say in the OP, is what would happen if the USD and every other fiat system collapses. I would imagine it would be pretty hard to have a fiat currency, such as USD, to go from representing nothing to representing either gold, silver, or Bitcoin.
So with that being said, I'm curious as to if creating a new "fiat-like" paper/physical currency would be feasible. I know something like this is a total long shot of actually happening, but I mean hey, Donald Trump is the US president for god sakes...
And the reason as to why I think it would be necessary to have Bitcoin be in physical form on either paper backed currency, or whatever, is to help with microtransactions and not over load blocks; plus it will prevent having people having to wait for 2 hours to get 1 confirmation to get their cup of coffee or whatever. Then in that instance, you can have larger volume type transactions and/or transactions going across international borders be used on the actual Bitcoin network.
November 13, 2016, 02:50:10 PM
i somewhat tjinking the same idea as op since op is very high ranker than me anyway strainght comming to the point the government is not trying to become so advance like bitcoin they can not just scrifile all their privacy but they do try to improve themself on the governmental levels but bitcoin has no rules and autorities so its free to be treated as whatever we want
November 13, 2016, 02:11:38 PM
Well Hyperledger seems to be the hype these days, but I think Ripple will be more than willing to sell out to anyone that can offer them
money and profits. The thing is, Fiat is evil and everything associated with it will go down. It is like driving around with a Vintage car, because
it attracts attention for the novelty... not the practicality.
money and profits. The thing is, Fiat is evil and everything associated with it will go down. It is like driving around with a Vintage car, because
it attracts attention for the novelty... not the practicality.
November 13, 2016, 01:58:49 PM
I see two things that exist right now and can be considered similar to this idea.
Paper wallet - it can be printed have value and secured by private key just like in fiat paper money it was secured by code number, hologram and sign of governor.
Tether (https://tether.to/) - backed by real cash in banks but works on bitcoin sidechain and have similar structure and transaction like bitcoin.
Paper wallet - it can be printed have value and secured by private key just like in fiat paper money it was secured by code number, hologram and sign of governor.
Tether (https://tether.to/) - backed by real cash in banks but works on bitcoin sidechain and have similar structure and transaction like bitcoin.
November 13, 2016, 01:57:54 PM
One of the major reasons for the invention of (gold-backed) fiat money was the insufficient supply of precious metals that led to coin shortage. After medieval times and discovery of the New World the economy of European States saw significant growth. Population also started to grow much faster than in the old times. There weren't enough coins to keep up with these developments. That's why paper money and later fiat money were a convenient solution.
It makes no sense to start a fiat system based on Bitcoin, simply because Bitcoin is infinitely divisible (with precision updates). You don't need to install a secondary money system to allow for uninhibited capital flow. With Bitcoin, there will never be a shortage of mediums of value.
ya.ya.yo!
It makes no sense to start a fiat system based on Bitcoin, simply because Bitcoin is infinitely divisible (with precision updates). You don't need to install a secondary money system to allow for uninhibited capital flow. With Bitcoin, there will never be a shortage of mediums of value.
ya.ya.yo!
November 13, 2016, 12:01:11 PM
It is perfectly possible, not today, but it will be once we have sidechains and lightning network. A country will be able to create their own crypto, and give them the properties that the government in question wants, and ultimately it's all backed by bitcoin hyperledger. I think this is what we will see in the distant near future, but of course there is always the possibility that governments don't want to do anything to do with bitcoin and create a thing that is totally separated from it.
bank of england, scotland, canada, america, switzerland, india, china, singapore, australia, taiwan, russia, germany and many others are already involved in hyperledger.
aswell as international payment/remittance services like union pay, visa etc etc.
as for when..
well they have already passed what bitcoiner would call the "bitcoin pizza event"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-tech-banks-idUSKCN12O0DX
australia trades 88 bales of cotton to china for $35,000 using the blockchain created by the banking cartel under the hyperledger umbrella
November 13, 2016, 09:11:37 AM
It is perfectly possible, not today, but it will be once we have sidechains and lightning network. A country will be able to create their own crypto, and give them the properties that the government in question wants, and ultimately it's all backed by bitcoin. I think this is what we will see in the distant future, but of course there is always the possibility that governments don't want to do anything to do with bitcoin and create a thing that is totally separated from it.
November 13, 2016, 09:04:27 AM
Bitcoin has no chance to be fiat.No authority has control over bitcoin,bitcoin isn't centralized so give bitcoin alone his way.gold or silver also not fiat.I was talked with bitcoin dev they also said Bitcoin has no chance to be fiat.
November 13, 2016, 06:38:20 AM
In order to do that, you need majority to use bitcoin as an everyday currency. Unless it happens, it is not possible.
Bitcoin is already backed by the FIAT system. If anyone says the otherwise, he/she is lying.
If you want to use FIAT backed by bitcoin, just use USD. It backs everything out there.
November 13, 2016, 06:33:56 AM
near on 100 international banks are already dveloping their crypto currency.
research hyperledger.
research hyperledger.
Nice read on the hyperledger, but apparently I cringe on the idea that banks participate in an "open-source, collaborative" effort to create a system which will back each industry up in the near future. As per the OP's view, it's not possible. First off, how would bitcoin back fiat in any way? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Second, authority, regulation and control—bitcoin doesn't have those. How would we, as a community, do desicion-making on fiat events? Consensus? Lol.
banks and bitcoin wont mix.
banks wont offer bitcoin at the bank teller counter or a banks own ATM
bitcoin wont overtake fiat.
bitcoin will continue separate as an alternative to FIAT2.0 (hyperledger)
there are laws to keep fiat dominant. such as tax and minimum wage laws (legal tender) that are there to keep fiat as the controlling circulated currency of a nation.
the banks will basically switch how their database is stored, (via hyperledger) but essentially from the citizens point of view nothing will really change legally/morally. it will still be bank managed funds.
as for the "open source" nature of hyperledger. thats just phase one.. get some free labour and recruit coders (like blockstream already got recruited) .. but the final "product" wont be open source, it will be closed source in shiny metal boxes sold as secure nodes to only the banking community who are authorised to purchase the closed end product system
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