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Topic: Is There Any Hope Left? (Read 5227 times)

full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
October 25, 2011, 07:28:26 AM
#45
Quote
Re: Is There Any Hope Left?
No.

Bitcoin is doing just fine. What is nutty is not the recent price drop, but the former $30/bitcoin situation. A bunch of people thought that bitcoin was getting more traction as a household name than what it was (and this is not a bad thing either) and bought a bunch of it at nutty prices.

It is my believe that bitcoin will stabilize at $1.50 and at that point, with all these projects and tools in place, it will become a viable STABLE way to pay and get paid.

From there, will  bitcoin ever reach USD 100 per bitcoin? Sure, but it might take 20 years, AS IT SHOULD BE!
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
October 24, 2011, 03:45:06 AM
#44
Inflation is theft from the people holding the "whatever", unless you are giving the new "whatever" to every person already holding it, which would be pointless.

Inflation isn't theft if your coins aren't devalued.  If new coins are mined but the exchange rate remains stable, the total economy just gets bigger and you don't lose anything.


We need someone like fidelity or amazon to come in and setup a legit exchange, or a real facebook-type startup to create a secure exchange with a real us company behind it.  I am not holding my breath..

Exchb was great while it lasted.  CampBX looks like it might be a winner too.  I doubt you're going to have established companies jumping in at this stage, but we've had two US-based startups with real people behind them who seem to be taking it seriously.
hero member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 503
Someone is sitting in the shade today...
October 24, 2011, 03:19:25 AM
#43
Until a legit company comes and sets up a secure exchange for trading bitcoins, bitcoin will never take off.  Every single major crash bitcoin had so far is due to those shit basement outfits getting hacked or trying to scam its clients themselves. There is little to no faith left in the current list of btc exchanges/wallet holders, and without trust and stable environment to conduct trades, a currency cannot exist.  

The $30 bubble created by the media didnt help the matter, but the main reason bitcoin crashed and will remains at such depressed levels is the fact there is no legit trustworthy exchanges.

We need someone like fidelity or amazon to come in and setup a legit exchange, or a real facebook-type startup to create a secure exchange with a real us company behind it.  I am not holding my breath..

ps: also if the main bitcoin forum (yes i am talking to you admins) can stop getting fucking hacked every 2 sec, it would also help the matter.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
October 23, 2011, 10:09:26 PM
#42
I'm going to make this short, because I'm more interested in reading your opinions rather than sharing mine. I'm sure most of you have invested in Bitcoins- and I consider even $50 an investment (though a small one). You could have invested when 10,000 Bitcoins were worth $25, or when a Bitcoin was worth about a buck. But do you regret not cashing in your investment earlier? Even I didn't expect the value of a Bitcoin to plummet this low, and despite getting rid of all my rigs and finally uninstalling both the RPC and Diablo miners from my main computer I still check MtGox each day in hopes that the economy will get much better. Then again, I'm a kid, so why should my opinion be taken seriously? The point that I'm trying to get at is, Bitcoins have been drastically falling in value ever since the CosbyCoin incident. At this point, do you intend to sell your investment and make what tiny profit (if any) you can get, or continue "believing" in Bitcoin?
As long as Silk Road is up, I'm sure Bitcoins will still be around regardless of their value. But I can just expect that one day I'll come back here and the whole community will be dead (metaphorically, of course).

One more thing, can someone explain to me how this ISN'T a ponzi scheme? I could have become a millionaire by selling Bitcoins right now if I had known about them from the start.

And finally, how do you think the BTC economy will influence other cryptocurrencies? Or as I call them, knock-offs.

If 50 bucks is a major investment for you, do not try to make a buck speculating on currencies.
hero member
Activity: 632
Merit: 500
October 22, 2011, 09:47:13 PM
#41
Because instead of MINING bitcoins, you can just BUY bitcoins.

Yes, I know.

Quote
At the moment prices are less than the cost to mine them, or about the same.

No. My margin of profit is around 50% right now on 1 Bitcoin mined. Why?
-The highest I can pay is 7.5 cents/kwh for electricity. It's possible for me to pay lower than that.
-I use Canadian dollars. 1 Bitcoin give me more $CAN than $US. Since I pay my bills in $CAN, I get more for my money. The 20-30 cents I get in bonus helps a lot.

Each day, I mine Bitcoins for 1.30$ while you buy them for 3$. It's a free world, so buy them if you want. I prefer mining them, since it's cheaper.

Quote
Not to mention that buying bitcoins instead of inflating the currency more by mining them will help to drive the price up further.
It ain't June anymore son.

The number of new Bitcoins injected is fixed. Mining more just give me a bigger cut on the 50 BTC bounty on each block. Mining doesn't influence the price at all, since the rate of new Bitcoins stay the same. The only thing mining influence is the difficulty index and the reward you get in your pockets.
hero member
Activity: 481
Merit: 502
October 22, 2011, 07:36:34 PM
#40
@Brunic - I have no idea why you are buying more rigs now when it's surely far cheaper and faster to buy the coins outright.

You must be mental.

Yeah, I'm mental because I make profits.  Roll Eyes

Dude, I'm making money of mining Bitcoins and selling them. Why should I stop? With these new rigs, I'll just make more money.


Because instead of MINING bitcoins, you can just BUY bitcoins.
At the moment prices are less than the cost to mine them, or about the same.
Not to mention that buying bitcoins instead of inflating the currency more by mining them will help to drive the price up further.
It ain't June anymore son.
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
October 22, 2011, 12:20:42 AM
#39
I see the current situation as a good opportunity for people to get near early adopter prices for Bitcoin.

...  and thus the cycle begins again.  This is exactly why I don't like the deflationary model.

The deflationary model has a very important social aspect in that it creates interest for Bitcoin before it becomes actually useful as a medium of exchange.


I like your point.

Yeah, that's pretty smart, I never thought of it like that before.

However Revalin's point is good too.  If you look at just about any thread of economic history, the biggest bubble/crash cycles often seem to arise out of circumstances where some prominent and well-known quality of the bubble asset leads to an easy conclusion that the asset's value will substantially appreciate in the long run.

What we really need is to stop is Bitcoin Robberies. Everytime a Hacker get his hands on a large ammount of Bitcoin, the value plummet along with trust and credibility.

A currency not backed up by an army is a very big challange...

+1.  I literally suspect that a massive international government crackdown would have been better tolerated  by the bitcoin economy (or maybe I'm wrong and this is it  Cheesy)

Also it probably doesn't help that scammers have to unload their coins on the market to realize any benefit.
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
October 20, 2011, 12:47:37 PM
#38
I see the current situation as a good opportunity for people to get near early adopter prices for Bitcoin.

...  and thus the cycle begins again.  This is exactly why I don't like the deflationary model.

The deflationary model has a very important social aspect in that it creates interest for Bitcoin before it becomes actually useful as a medium of exchange.


I like your point.

Anyhow as said elsewhere many times, we need to build a Bitcoin Economy if we want a stable Bitcoin.

The nice part is that a stable Bitcoin is not needed to start a Bitcoin Economy, even though it is very benefical to it. Sellers can immediately convert the Bitcoin, and stay safe of the exchange rate, while still contributing to the Bitcoin Economy by creating a flow of value.

What we really need is to stop is Bitcoin Robberies. Everytime a Hacker get his hands on a large ammount of Bitcoin, the value plummet along with trust and credibility.

A currency not backed up by an army is a very big challange...
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
October 20, 2011, 08:23:55 AM
#37
Yeah, I'm mental because I make profits.  Roll Eyes

Dude, I'm making money of mining Bitcoins and selling them. Why should I stop? With these new rigs, I'll just make more money.

Troll, or a complete moron? Cast your votes.

The residential price of electricity in Quebec, Canada is around 60% of the average price of electricity in the US. And the more electricity I consume, the more the price goes down. At a certain point, it's possible to pay 2.97 cents/kwh.

You should inform yourself before insulting people. Google is free of charge you know. Try "Hydro Québec" in Google if you don't believe me.

I don't disbelieve you, I'm sure you are telling the truth about Hydro power being relatively inexpensive in Canada. But for all I knew, you could have been a kid clocking up their parent's electricity bill, who doesn't understand that profit is what is left from revenue-expenses. I still don't know that for a fact.

My point was that it is rather silly to invest long-term in mining rigs with fiat currency in order to mine bitcoin so it can be sold for fiat profits when bitcoin can only be exchanged for $2 a coin and decreasing... well, you can see my dilemma.

Mining is still profitable for me as well. Still will be for awhile. And I own my own house and pay my own electricity bills. Your myopia actually is suggesting you are more of a troll than others that are stating their mining / electricity cost unique situations.

I invested in july, to see prices plummet, and I regret nothing! I've got a shit ton of hardware I can always sell on ebay if need be. only invest what you are willing to lose, and I'm still winning.
hero member
Activity: 632
Merit: 500
October 20, 2011, 12:19:33 AM
#36

I don't disbelieve you, I'm sure you are telling the truth about Hydro power being relatively inexpensive in Canada. But for all I knew, you could have been a kid clocking up their parent's electricity bill, who doesn't understand that profit is what is left from revenue-expenses. I still don't know that for a fact.

My point was that it is rather silly to invest long-term in mining rigs with fiat currency in order to mine bitcoin so it can be sold for fiat profits when bitcoin can only be exchanged for $2 a coin and decreasing... well, you can see my dilemma.

Yeah, I see your point there. Don't worry, I've been an entrepreneur for a couple of years now, I know what I'm talking about. It's just....I don't know, I have a Bitcoin start-up business, like you have a Bitcoin start-up business also. It's simply that I'm doing mining, while your doing torrent service. How would you feel if I came from nowhere, telling that you're a troll or a moron for doing torrent services?

My point is, currently, producing a Bitcoin cost me around 1.25$(didn't calculated with the last difficulty drop, so it could be lower). They are currently sold at 2.50 $CAN. My margin of profit is 50%. Why would I pay 2.50$ to have a Bitcoin when I can produce them at half the price?

donator
Activity: 83
Merit: 10
October 19, 2011, 11:43:55 PM
#35
Due diligence. People who bought at 30$ should Google that up.

If you want to invest in something, you have to do your own research, free of bias, and come up with your own idea of what the value of something really is. Next compare to the market price, factor in liquidity, risk, and so forth. Determine how much you are willing to lose, based on your confidence in your own valuation metrics.

Do that, and you will make money trading.

Don't, and you are the only one to blame.

The USD value of bitcoins themselves is irrelevant. What's valuable is the infrastructure around it... Money (currencies, gold, bitcoins, etc...) is just a way to measure the value of products and services. How are you helping anyone by sitting on your ass holding bitcoins in hopes of getting rich? Get to work kids!

Please read on Austrian economics and stay away from the Keynesian bullshit and you might end up getting that and start making good financial decisions... you'll thank me later Wink
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1008
October 19, 2011, 11:21:19 PM
#34
I see the current situation as a good opportunity for people to get near early adopter prices for Bitcoin.
Early adopter prices would be more like $0.05.  I doubt very much we'll get anywhere near that level.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
October 19, 2011, 10:42:33 PM
#33
Hope and fear keep people from seeing things clearly.  I'm just continuing to watch.
hero member
Activity: 482
Merit: 502
October 19, 2011, 10:38:49 PM
#32
Mining stopped to be profitable for me yesterday. I made some calculations and find out that it costs 31eur to mine 24/7 in 1 month. I can earn 28 to 30 eur in current price...
And guess what? I'm not going to stop.
hero member
Activity: 728
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165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
October 19, 2011, 08:50:04 PM
#31
Only until Despair.  Then we're going to board the place up.
hero member
Activity: 616
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Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)
October 19, 2011, 06:41:17 PM
#30
Of course there is hope, we're still around, aren't we?
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
GET IN - Smart Ticket Protocol - Live in market!
October 19, 2011, 05:48:31 PM
#29
Yeah, I'm mental because I make profits.  Roll Eyes

Dude, I'm making money of mining Bitcoins and selling them. Why should I stop? With these new rigs, I'll just make more money.

Troll, or a complete moron? Cast your votes.
We have to make a new name for him...trolon.



Lovin' the debate. Please continue, I feed off of threads like these.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
October 19, 2011, 05:32:50 PM
#28
Yeah, I'm mental because I make profits.  Roll Eyes

Dude, I'm making money of mining Bitcoins and selling them. Why should I stop? With these new rigs, I'll just make more money.

Troll, or a complete moron? Cast your votes.

The residential price of electricity in Quebec, Canada is around 60% of the average price of electricity in the US. And the more electricity I consume, the more the price goes down. At a certain point, it's possible to pay 2.97 cents/kwh.

You should inform yourself before insulting people. Google is free of charge you know. Try "Hydro Québec" in Google if you don't believe me.

I don't disbelieve you, I'm sure you are telling the truth about Hydro power being relatively inexpensive in Canada. But for all I knew, you could have been a kid clocking up their parent's electricity bill, who doesn't understand that profit is what is left from revenue-expenses. I still don't know that for a fact.

My point was that it is rather silly to invest long-term in mining rigs with fiat currency in order to mine bitcoin so it can be sold for fiat profits when bitcoin can only be exchanged for $2 a coin and decreasing... well, you can see my dilemma.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
October 19, 2011, 04:57:28 PM
#27
The deflationary model has a very important social aspect in that it creates interest for Bitcoin before it becomes actually useful as a medium of exchange.

I know, but I think that scam-avoidance and volatility are hurting us more than the bait-factor is helping.  Perhaps we never would have gotten here without it, but now how do we get past here with it?
hero member
Activity: 632
Merit: 500
October 19, 2011, 04:44:09 PM
#26
Yeah, I'm mental because I make profits.  Roll Eyes

Dude, I'm making money of mining Bitcoins and selling them. Why should I stop? With these new rigs, I'll just make more money.

Troll, or a complete moron? Cast your votes.

The residential price of electricity in Quebec, Canada is around 60% of the average price of electricity in the US. And the more electricity I consume, the more the price goes down. At a certain point, it's possible to pay 2.97 cents/kwh.

You should inform yourself before insulting people. Google is free of charge you know. Try "Hydro Québec" in Google if you don't believe me.
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