Is there such a thing as Bitcoin Base Transaction Fee?

dzungmobile

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Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 01:40:40 AM

Transaction size: Larger transactions require more data and result in higher fees per byte.
Network demand: During periods of high activity, fees increase due to more competition for block space.

The first one does not relate to your fee rate while the second one does relate.

Code:

Transaction fee = transaction size * fee rate

You can choose fee rate you want to use, but will your transaction be confirmed by Bitcoin miners or not, it depends on whether your fee rate, and transaction fee is at tip of mempool. Bitcoin miners confirm transactions at tip of mempool first except they broadcast their own transactions. Most of Bitcoin mempools set their default min fee rate is 1 satoshi/vbyte.

Transaction size can be decreased by using less inputs, less outputs and Segwit.

https://learnmeabitcoin.com/technical/mining/memory-pool/

Quote

The default minimum mempool fee is 1 sat/byte.

ABCbits

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Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 01:40:40 AM

The fee rate is determined by two main factors:

Transaction size: Larger transactions require more data and result in higher fees per byte.

Transaction size actually affect total fee, not fee rate.

Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 01:40:40 AM

But, I was under the impression there is a minimum fee rate built into the algorithm, like .00005.

There's no minimum imposed by Bitcoin protocol. But in practice, most Bitcoin node would only relay transaction which have fee rate at least 1 sat/vByte.

Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 01:40:40 AM

I guess like, what is the algorithm to determine the fee rate?

Each wallet software have it's own algorithm to determine best fee rate.

ml9999

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There is no "base transaction fee". The fee is just an incentive for miners to confirm your transaction and add it to a block, so theoretically the fee is optional. However, transactions with a low enough fee won't ever be picked up simply because there isn't enough reward for the miners, but there is no "base" or minimum fee programmed into bitcoin.

Catenaccio

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Quote from: avikz on October 04, 2024, 01:02:30 PM

I believe you are referring to the bare minimum fees by base fees! The minimum fees for a bitcoin transaction depends on a couple of factors.

1. Network congestion
2. Transaction size (Data Size in Bytes)
3. Batching of transactions and complexity

To save transaction fees, taking action of consolidation inputs when network is not congested, mempools are not heavy and cheapest fee rates like 1 to 2 satoshi/vbyte are available to use, is good for preparation of your transaction when transaction fees are more expensive.

Cheap transaction fee rate like 1 - 2 satoshi/vbyte is not always available.
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),1y,weight

avikz

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Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 12:21:24 AM

What is the Base Transaction Fee for Bitcoin? The original fee programmed? Does anyone know?

I believe you are referring to the bare minimum fees by base fees! The minimum fees for a bitcoin transaction depends on a couple of factors.

1. Network congestion
2. Transaction size (Data Size in Bytes)
3. Batching of transactions and complexity

There could be more factors, but these are the basics. So the base fees changes every second. If the network is less congested, you will pay less fees and vice versa.

But you can choose to pay 1 SAT/vbyte for your transaction, but that's probably never going to get confirmed in your lifetime.

EL MOHA

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Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 02:34:59 AM

If there's no base fee, why do fees stay so low?

Fees stay low because the network is less congested, bitcoin network or protocol doesn’t have a base transaction in fact transaction can be completed even without the fees there is nothing stopping it from happening but Due to how all mining nodes actually prioritize transactions base on fees most wallets do not allow transactions with fee less than 1sat/vbyte but it is not a bitcoin network protocol.

Transaction fees are high because of congestion on the bitcoin network most at time this high congestion aren’t even caused by bitcoin transaction alone but due to some ordinals or runes inscriptions.

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Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 01:40:40 AM

I know that it is calculated by multiplying the transaction size in virtual bytes (vBytes) by the fee rate in satoshis per vByte.

It's accurate.

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The fee rate is determined by two main factors:

Three factors, you forgot that a Bitcoin user is free to choose a fee rate. It's a missing factor in your post.

Quote

Transaction size: Larger transactions require more data and result in higher fees per byte.

Again, you use vague word, I don't know what is larger transaction in your post.

A Bitcoin transaction has its size, that depends on its number of inputs, outputs and its type. You can reduce your transaction size by using less inputs, set less outputs, and choose better input script type like using Segwit.

Transaction size calculator https://bitcoinops.org/en/tools/calc-size/

Larger transaction in this context is not about its value in either BTC or $.

Quote

Network demand: During periods of high activity, fees increase due to more competition for block space.

If you are experienced, you can avoid these times. No need to join these crazy fee rate races when you can have other better times to move your bitcoin with cheaper fee rate.

Minimize your transaction fee with Electrum wallet

pooya87

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Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 02:34:59 AM

If there's no base fee, why do fees stay so low?

There is a standard rule that majority of nodes enforce which is they don't relay anything that pays less than 1 sat/vbyte. From there, the fee people pay is a preference and also is affected by how much "competition" exists in the network for the limited block space. If there is more demand for it than there is space (meaning if there is 5 mb which is 1 mb bigger than the cap) then the competition becomes fierce and fee goes up. The more people compete, the higher the fee goes.

NotATether

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Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 01:40:40 AM

I was under the impression there is a minimum fee per Bitcoin transaction. I know that it is calculated by multiplying the transaction size in virtual bytes (vBytes) by the fee rate in satoshis per vByte. The fee rate is determined by two main factors:

Transaction size: Larger transactions require more data and result in higher fees per byte.
Network demand: During periods of high activity, fees increase due to more competition for block space.

What you think is is the "minimum fee" is actually the smallest possible fee that you can pay to the network for your transaction to get broadcast.

It basically implies multiplying the transaction size in vbytes by 1 sat/vbyte i.e. the smallest fee you can pay is the size of your transaction.

But don't expect anybody to mine a block with that small of a fee, unless you use a mempool accelerator service.

Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 02:34:59 AM

If there's no base fee, why do fees stay so low?

Fees only rise when some people fill up the mempool with at least 1vMB of transactions that pay larger fees. The miners can't clear them out in time, which results in the average fee rising for everyone else.

EluguHcman

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Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 12:21:24 AM

What is the Base Transaction Fee for Bitcoin? The original fee programmed? Does anyone know?

Absolutely... No fixation on Bitcoin transaction fee rather transaction fees might be determined based on network conditions depending on choice of transaction networks and the interference of miners facilitations to execute flexible transaction especially when there is a network congestion.

Although if you are looking for a cheaper transaction means, you can try the lightning network which offers lesser fee in compared to the traditional Blockchain networks but yet, there is no precised pinned transaction fee .

deatrice

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If there's no base fee, why do fees stay so low?

Questat

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on October 03, 2024, 02:13:59 AM

In the early days, when block subsidy was 50 BTC and there were no transaction competition, you could have it confirmed for free. Example: https://mempool.space/tx/fff2525b8931402dd09222c50775608f75787bd2b87e56995a7bdd30f79702c4.

Crazy, right? Back then, 50 BTC was just $13.15, and now it’s worth over $3 million... Time really flies....

Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 02:34:59 AM

If there's no base fee, why do fees stay so low?

Because the network is not congested.

deatrice

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Thank you.

BlackHatCoiner

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There is no such a thing as a base fee. This term makes sense only in the Lightning Network.

In Bitcoin, a transaction that pays no fee can be valid. However, nodes would, by default, reject adding it to their mempool, and it wouldn't therefore reach the miners. You would have to manually reach the miners with that transaction, and you would likely have to pay them to have it confirmed, which is the same thing as paying the fee.

In the early days, when block subsidy was 50 BTC and there were no transaction competition, you could have it confirmed for free. Example: https://mempool.space/tx/fff2525b8931402dd09222c50775608f75787bd2b87e56995a7bdd30f79702c4.

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Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 01:40:40 AM

I was under the impression there is a minimum fee per Bitcoin transaction. I know that it is calculated by multiplying the transaction size in virtual bytes (vBytes) by the fee rate in satoshis per vByte. The fee rate is determined by two main factors:

Transaction size: Larger transactions require more data and result in higher fees per byte.
Network demand: During periods of high activity, fees increase due to more competition for block space.

But, I was under the impression there is a minimum fee rate built into the algorithm, like .00005. I guess like, what is the algorithm to determine the fee rate? Like if there was no competition for block space, and during a period of no activity, what would the fee be?

No, there is no minimum fee built into the protocol... In the early days, blocks even kept a little bit of space free especially for high priority zero fee transactions. Right now, you can still create 0 fee transactions, but most nodes will not accept them into their mempool (nor relay them). This is basically a choice the nodes make (eventough, the dev's did make it easy for them to configure their node in such a way that transactions with a fee that's "to low" get bounced) but they make said choice out of their own free will (or because it's the default setting of their node software). If they wanted to, they could accept and relay 0 fee transactions.

You could, theoretically, contact a big mining pool and give them your 0 fee transaction and ask if they're willing to include your transaction into their blocks (untill they succeed in solving a block). They probably won't do this tough, since it would make no sense economically...

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As a result of transaction validation, miners reward, and network congestion, the bitcoin first layer has no base transaction fee or programmed fee, it all varies due to the few above listed factors. But the layer 2 protocols that's the lightening network was structured to operate above those barriers and you could get lower fees and fast transaction speed when sending bitcoin through LN.

Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 01:40:40 AM

But, I was under the impression there is a minimum fee rate built into the algorithm, like .00005. I guess like, what is the algorithm to determine the fee rate? Like if there was no competition for block space, and during a period of no activity, what would the fee be?

You answered the question, the algorithm is calculated via sats/vbyte multiplied by the size of your transaction. But, if you're sending through a bitcoin wallet, when the network is less busy, you'd get a lower fee suggestion, which you could adjust to the lowest or higher size depending on how fast you'd want the transaction to be confirmed. However, lower fees are not encouraged even when the network is not congested, it could take hours to send.

Russlenat

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You mean the original transaction fee, like during Bitcoin's early days?

Hopefully this would help....So, if we're talking about 2011 (which is before I knew about Bitcoin), based on those old threads, it was around 0.01 BTC. I'm not entirely sure if that’s correct, but it seems to be the case. If I'm misunderstanding your question,please clarify it.

BTC Transaction fee of 0.01 for a 0.02 Send?
0.01 BTC fee on 0.01 BTC transaction?

Quote from: alxs on June 13, 2011, 11:26:49 AM

I'm running latest windows client. Sent 0.02 BTC to someone and couldn't get it to not charge .01 transaction fee. Found this really odd...If I send 1.00BTC don't get charged a fee, but get charged if its less than 1.00? Doesn't seem right...

Don't mind the answer above.

I guess this one could help .

What's the minimum transaction with bitcoin?
And if you want to check on the fees, try this. : https://mempool.space/

deatrice

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I was under the impression there is a minimum fee per Bitcoin transaction. I know that it is calculated by multiplying the transaction size in virtual bytes (vBytes) by the fee rate in satoshis per vByte. The fee rate is determined by two main factors:

Transaction size: Larger transactions require more data and result in higher fees per byte.
Network demand: During periods of high activity, fees increase due to more competition for block space.

But, I was under the impression there is a minimum fee rate built into the algorithm, like .00005. I guess like, what is the algorithm to determine the fee rate? Like if there was no competition for block space, and during a period of no activity, what would the fee be?

odolvlobo

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Quote from: deatrice on October 03, 2024, 12:21:24 AM

What is the Base Transaction Fee for Bitcoin? The original fee programmed? Does anyone know?

It's not clear what you mean by "base transaction fee". Fees are not required. However, transactions are normally prioritized by the fee amount and a transaction paying a fee of 0 is unlikely to be confirmed.

DubemIfedigbo001

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Base transaction fee for Bitcoin, also known as network fee or transaction fee is the fee you pay to miners to get your transactions confirmed. It is not fixed and is variable depending on the current network conditions. The network conditions might include congestion and demand for block space.

You need to know that miners prioritize higher network fee and users can specify the amount they are willing to pay measures in Satoshi per byte (sat/byte) from their sending wallets. If network is congested, the fee tends to be higher than when the network activity is low.

You can also confirm the current acceptable fees from mempool.space which provides current information about network fees based on network conditions.

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