Topic: Is this possible? (Read 1853 times)
Wow what and awsome question, i was really going to crawl for an answer for that one, glad some on already found and shared with us, well at least it's not even "impossible" on a math carather.
At the risk of furthering this absurd conversation, I want to point out that if someone states that there is a probability of 1 in 2256 of guessing a private key, they are explicitly stating that it is possible to guess the key. If it were impossible, then the probability would be 0.
Now for those of you that don't yet grasp improbability of 1 in 2256, I give you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTRwD85AQ4
Now for those of you that don't yet grasp improbability of 1 in 2256, I give you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTRwD85AQ4
CMIIW, you don't need to get the same private key but just a private key corresponding to the same address. If so, the chance would be 1 in 2^160 instead, am I right?
Correct. Well, it assumes further that the hashing algorithms (SHA256 and RIPEMD 160) used are evenly distributed, which is not proven AFAIK. Should the hashing algorithms be unevenly distributed could be some addresses with more corresponding private keys and some with less.
At the risk of furthering this absurd conversation, I want to point out that if someone states that there is a probability of 1 in 2256 of guessing a private key, they are explicitly stating that it is possible to guess the key. If it were impossible, then the probability would be 0.
Now for those of you that don't yet grasp improbability of 1 in 2256, I give you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTRwD85AQ4
Now for those of you that don't yet grasp improbability of 1 in 2256, I give you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTRwD85AQ4
CMIIW, you don't need to get the same private key but just a private key corresponding to the same address. If so, the chance would be 1 in 2^160 instead, am I right?
Anyway, it doesn't change the conclusion that a collision is not gonna happen, ever.
At the risk of furthering this absurd conversation, I want to point out that if someone states that there is a probability of 1 in 2256 of guessing a private key, they are explicitly stating that it is possible to guess the key. If it were impossible, then the probability would be 0.
Now for those of you that don't yet grasp improbability of 1 in 2256, I give you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTRwD85AQ4
Now for those of you that don't yet grasp improbability of 1 in 2256, I give you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTRwD85AQ4
I don't think that anybody is having trouble of grasping the improbability. My original question was "Is it possible?" not "Is it probable?" That question was answered, and I thank you for all the responses.
Now for those of you that don't yet grasp improbability of 1 in 2256, I give you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTRwD85AQ4
Love that movie!!! Another interesting link:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Improbable_things_happen
At the risk of furthering this absurd conversation, I want to point out that if someone states that there is a probability of 1 in 2256 of guessing a private key, they are explicitly stating that it is possible to guess the key. If it were impossible, then the probability would be 0.
Now for those of you that don't yet grasp improbability of 1 in 2256, I give you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTRwD85AQ4
Now for those of you that don't yet grasp improbability of 1 in 2256, I give you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTRwD85AQ4
I found this showing the math behind it - http://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/1x50xl/time_and_energy_required_to_bruteforce_a_aes256/
With a billion GPU's "The universe itself only existed for 14 billion (1.4e10) years. It would take ~6.7e40 times longer than the age of the universe to exhaust half of the keyspace of a AES-256 key." So guess a new universe could be created before this happens.
With a billion GPU's "The universe itself only existed for 14 billion (1.4e10) years. It would take ~6.7e40 times longer than the age of the universe to exhaust half of the keyspace of a AES-256 key." So guess a new universe could be created before this happens.
thanks for your research, it's a good link and answers my questions
unfortunetly it is impossible.
It's not impossible, but it is highly improbable.
It's the way people look at this....
Someone who looks realistically to this topic says it is impossible.
Someone who say it is possible looks in a theoretical way, like a scientist for example.
I would say both answers are possible and acceptable as long someone can explain why he give this answer.
unfortunetly it is impossible.
It's not impossible, but it is highly improbable.
unfortunetly it is impossible.
I don't think someone can generate new address that actually used by another user before.
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
ha ha ha, why you use this smiley? ->
it seems you have the wish, to generate (brute force) a address of your choice somehow ^^ right?
We just don't have the technology to do so. The amount of time and power required to brute force this is hard to say. It would take who knows how many years it could be after most of us are dead.
Maybe if a future far far away... but not going to happen anytime soon.
haha, i wrote this already few posts before
.....
I think it is not possible during my lifetime, even if with computer which are 1000 times faster than today.
I think it is not possible during my lifetime, even if with computer which are 1000 times faster than today.
but my question now is, HOW TO CALCULATE THE REQUIRED TIME
lets assume i'm able to calculate private keys with ~33.33 Mkey/s
I found this showing the math behind it - http://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/1x50xl/time_and_energy_required_to_bruteforce_a_aes256/
With a billion GPU's "The universe itself only existed for 14 billion (1.4e10) years. It would take ~6.7e40 times longer than the age of the universe to exhaust half of the keyspace of a AES-256 key." So guess a new universe could be created before this happens.
I don't think someone can generate new address that actually used by another user before.
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
ha ha ha, why you use this smiley? ->
it seems you have the wish, to generate (brute force) a address of your choice somehow ^^ right?
We just don't have the technology to do so. The amount of time and power required to brute force this is hard to say. It would take who knows how many years it could be after most of us are dead.
Maybe if a future far far away... but not going to happen anytime soon.
haha, i wrote this already few posts before
.....
I think it is not possible during my lifetime, even if with computer which are 1000 times faster than today.
I think it is not possible during my lifetime, even if with computer which are 1000 times faster than today.
but my question now is, HOW TO CALCULATE THE REQUIRED TIME
lets assume i'm able to calculate private keys with ~33.33 Mkey/s
you can't be really sure that is impossible, it maybe impossible for now, but there are numerous things that are still undiscovered, or not known well, like the dark matter
We just don't have the technology to do so. The amount of time and power required to brute force this is hard to say. It would take who knows how many years it could be after most of us are dead.
Maybe if a future far far away... but not going to happen anytime soon.
Maybe if a future far far away... but not going to happen anytime soon.
....saving space
Holy crap, the amount of misinformation in this thread is mind boggling.
First off, the theoretical limitation IIRC is because of thermodynamics NOT the speed of light. Everything you do (including calculations) requires energy. There is a minimum amount of energy required for any single calculation and hence you require incredible amounts of energy to actually bruteforce the entire keyspace.
... saving space
So I am right it would be after we are dead. If you look into bruteforcing there are breakthroughs at times such as when the industry went from CPU to GPU to crack many things, this was a huge advancement. And there is always Moores Law.
I did not do the math as it is something that is not plausible. Not trying to pass misinformation.
We just don't have the technology to do so. The amount of time and power required to brute force this is hard to say. It would take who knows how many years it could be after most of us are dead.
Maybe if a future far far away... but not going to happen anytime soon.
Maybe if a future far far away... but not going to happen anytime soon.
I heard some scientists saying that it still may be impossible in the futute because computers will have a limit on how fast they can process information, since information itself cant travel faster than light
Holy crap, the amount of misinformation in this thread is mind boggling.
First off, the theoretical limitation IIRC is because of thermodynamics NOT the speed of light. Everything you do (including calculations) requires energy. There is a minimum amount of energy required for any single calculation and hence you require incredible amounts of energy to actually bruteforce the entire keyspace.
This isn't entirely true as the security of Bitcoin depends on SHA-256, RIPEMD-160 and ECDSA being secure - but bruteforce attacks are not viable.
I don't think someone can generate new address that actually used by another user before.
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
ha ha ha, why you use this smiley? ->
it seems you have the wish, to generate (brute force) a address of your choice somehow ^^ right?
We just don't have the technology to do so. The amount of time and power required to brute force this is hard to say. It would take who knows how many years it could be after most of us are dead.
Maybe if a future far far away... but not going to happen anytime soon.
I heard some scientists saying that it still may be impossible in the futute because computers will have a limit on how fast they can process information, since information itself cant travel faster than light
I don't think someone can generate new address that actually used by another user before.
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
ha ha ha, why you use this smiley? ->
it seems you have the wish, to generate (brute force) a address of your choice somehow ^^ right?
We just don't have the technology to do so. The amount of time and power required to brute force this is hard to say. It would take who knows how many years it could be after most of us are dead.
Maybe if a future far far away... but not going to happen anytime soon.
I don't think someone can generate new address that actually used by another user before.
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
ha ha ha, why you use this smiley? ->
it seems you have the wish, to generate (brute force) a address of your choice somehow ^^ right?
I don't think someone can generate new address that actually used by another user before.
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
The chance getting this is very very small
The length of private key is make sure there are so many bitcoin address out there
Once when I first started getting into crypto, I accidentally sent sone altcoins to the wrong address and of course, that was that. The coins were gone.
That made me wonder if the following scenario is possible: Could someone create a brand new Bitcoin address and find Bitcoin sitting in his wallet if someone accidentally sent coins to that address a year or so ago? Or will coins only show up if someone sends them to the wrong address and that address already exists.
I was just curious.
That made me wonder if the following scenario is possible: Could someone create a brand new Bitcoin address and find Bitcoin sitting in his wallet if someone accidentally sent coins to that address a year or so ago? Or will coins only show up if someone sends them to the wrong address and that address already exists.
I was just curious.
It is impossible because of the length of the private key. A bitcoin private key is usually a 256 bit number, where a bit is a choice between 0 or 1. You must throw a coin 256 times and get each of the heads and tails combinations exactly right. 256 throws, you can do that right?
There are 2^256 possibilities. Guess the number below 115.792.089.237.316.195.423.570.985.008.687.907.853.269.984.665.640.564.039.457 .584.007.913.129.639.936.
If you can do that, you have the control. The chance of this randomly occurring? 1/ (2^256). Practically zero.
Newer wallets may use BIP 32 seeds for their private keys, which can be as long as 512 bits. There is also the risk of have a multi signature address where you need to guess not only one private key but four or more.
Could someone create a brand new Bitcoin address and find Bitcoin sitting in his wallet if someone accidentally sent coins to that address a year or so ago?
A while ago i asked my self the same question...And yes, i agree with DannyHamilton's answers.
It is possible, but the chance that two people generate the same address and that someone has deposit coins on it is very very very small! It seems nearly not impossible...
And please think about the fact that you are able to also generate a address on a computer without internet connection. And you can send coins to this address without that this computer was connected to the internet ever.
This way i learned that a address is not bound to a user or to a wallet. And it means that there is not a mechanism which prevents that a address can generated more as to times.
The procedure of generating a address offline is good for some reasons, ( and the safest ) for example to generate a address and a private key to print it on a paper. Or for generating a unique address ( a vanity address). No hacker or bad software is able to find a offline generated address. And i am not able to calculate how long it could need to bruteforce a private key of a address with coins deposited on it. I think it is not possible during my lifetime, even if with computer which are 1000 times faster than today.
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