Topic: Is this the kind of world you want to live in? [read] (Read 553 times)

If there are regulations like that, it's scary, because our bitcoins are entrusted even to countries or institutions, only storing decimals but assets are managed and freely visited by state wallets, I can't imagine it. So the value of a new business that might be lucrative. Bitcoin is still new and not yet comprehensive proof that the country has only reached the stage of providing conversion to fiat from a local cex. they consider it easy but it could be that with the vision and mission of wanting to provide security for citizens and in the future will consider bitcoin as a currency for blatant payment in public , actually it doesn't matter but convenience will bring side effects, your thinking is right, it could be threatening and could be real.
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I didn't realize that sometimes I use P2P even on cex, do cex users have traffic as visitors because more and more cex are popping up, at the beginning I used cex maybe slowly wanted to highlight bitcoin and under the ownership of a clear institution (cex) add to altcoins, especially there are some that support P2P among cex, when I have cex indeed my privasy has been given to the financial service. less practicing P2P personally especially with new people.

I don't doubt there are a small number of people in the world using cryptos to pay for things "on a daily basis" but the keyword here is small. There are something like 30 billion transactions a day worldwide using credit cards alone, and there's simply no chance, architecturally, that cryptocurrency could even achieve one thousandth of that.

And as I've said many, many (many!  ) times here, I think it's great that people view Bitcoin as an investment opportunity. You have my viewpoint here exactly backwards. I think cryptos are a perfectly fine investment instrument and they've shown their popularity in being so in the last 10 years.

But as a worldwide payment system, crypto has failed. And you know what? Given the price of Bitcoin right now, nobody cares. How hard is it to believe that a technology that was created for one purpose was instead used for another purpose, the original one being a bust? That's happened a zillion times in the history of tech...




Sorry that I think what? I said I agree that Google has privacy issues, and they are well-documented. And my company doesn't even use cookies because we see them as evil.

I was only making a narrow point about the text and meaning of the emails themselves, for which there has never been any evidence that Google has every breached that without a specifically targeted court order, nor would there be any reason for them to. That doesn't mean I deny they have many privacy issues, many of which I've seen first hand in my IT career.

You describe some points that totally stand against the Bitcoin decentralisation concept. Then it seems to look like an existing digital fiat currency concept. So if all of your "ifs" become reality, then the concept of decentralised p2p money won't be true. That means Bitcoin would just use the same fiat currency, which is pretty similar to PayPal. Then we can't see current Bitcoin that is focused worldwide. Otherwise, another Satoshi would discover the real concept of Bitcoin.

What specific aspects do you think crypto failed to achieve? I use crypto payments on an almost daily basis. Wasn't that the primary purpose of Bitcoin? A global, decentralized payment network accessible to everyone. Why do you care if many people now view Bitcoin as a potential investment opportunity, if it still serves its primary purpose?


I feel sorry for you if you really think that. These are the facts, though:

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_litigation

Among all those other What Ifs, this is the one that interest me, I don't think any government on entity can control the Bitcoin blockchain right? so there is no way to block or interfere with Bitcoin transaction to certain wallet, hypothetically the only way is to filter the Internet connection with mac address or IP address, because we need internet connection to do Bitcoin transaction. But I am not networking/internet expert so I don't know.

I mean if we are to do What If, it's good to get into the detail right.

people are not taking that seriously for now. but eventually, they'll have to fight for that if they want freedom and privacy for their selves and their upcoming generations. because govt and banks will keep oppressing them and they'll eventually take over Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency too. they are already getting into that slowly.
Most of the exchanges are in their control. and any exchange they can't control they try to shut that down. it is becoming harder and harder to use crypto freely nowadays. so people have to start fighting before situation gets even worse.

Only a few would be able to understand the deep meaning behind this question. There was a time when exchanges gave priority to privacy whereas now most of them have made KYC mandatory as per the government law. I still remember Binance allowing 2BTC worth transaction without passing KYC.

If you are referring to the Bitcoin wallet where we have control, then I do not think it is possible now. Maybe in the future, the government might come up with a law asking every wallet owner to pass KYC.

Why would they be interested in doing that, they have other important things to do.

That would be the end of Bitcoin as it not what Bitcoin was designed to do, become a centralized entity.

Agree! But, I am not someone in power or has the money to be part of that power.

Bitcoin is actually a volatile asset we can't tempered with because we can lose our money anytime if we make mistakes while doing any transactions, we can lose our money and it is not reversible.

The majority of people these days are just jumping into Bitcoin investment without knowing the primary goal behind the creation of Bitcoin. Some of them feel that it is just by investing in Bitcoin and waiting for your profit after some time. We need to know that Bitcoin is created to give us financial freedom, that is what the government is trying to fight so that they will have some control over our Bitcoin transactions with exchanges.
Let us avoid Centralized exchanges to avoid all these dramas of SEC, and other regulatory bodies trying to distract bitcoin adoption globally.

Do you think this is possible?
Almost everything we do currently requires to pass through kyc, exchange and gambling site. This is most common place that asked for our kyc details and for that whomever that doesn't pass through kyc might not be allowed to either withdraw his coin in both platform. Apart from this common place where else do we need to spend bitcoin except doing p2p among ourselves here or other than those platform that doesn't seek for personal documents, also, know there are restricted countries that might not be allowed to use those platform due to sets of restriction.

Lightning networks the solution as op said.

Not the currency. The network in general. Nobody can censor me from sending and receiving bitcoin.

In cash? None. Via the Internet? They have to pass through a financial institution which imposes their own rules, all of which can censor transactions.

Nobody can prohibit you from setting up a Bitcoin wallet. Nobody grants you permission to access Bitcoin.

But, again. I'm not arguing for the benefit of the consumer. I'm arguing for the fundamentals that maintain this network's integrity. A Bitcoin standard would promote reduced state intervention and cater to individual preferences. It essentially embodies the ideal vision of every libertarian intellectual from the 20th century.

What is mean for a currency to be "censorship resistant"? In what way are, say, US Dollars not "censorship resistant" for instance? What does "permissionless" mean? Again, in what way are US Dollars not "permissionless"?

I certainly get that it's denationalized. That's not a very strong benefit to the consumer though per se. Most credit cards these days allow you to pay in whatever currency that is required at the point of purchase and the bank does the forex for you behind the scenes.

It is definitely not subject to currency manipulation by governments, but on the other hand the price of Bitcoin has been extremely volatile, so there's certainly no materialized benefit there.

And all of these benefits, I assume, are only realized in the context of somebody transacting with Bitcoin without the assistance of any financial institution which is, I suspect, not the way most consumers use Bitcoin these days, e.g. with some kind of app and a company like Coinbase...

I doubt people using BTC for buying goods and services everyday of course some do, but not many because of the fee's.
And yes we can send money around the world, but we have to pay expensive fees if we choose BTC. But other crypto's have good fee's.



Then I hope it would be a coup d'état. Governments are nothing then mafia and they should leave us crypto lovers alone, they are scumbags and the worst people and thing in the world IMO. They just steal from the citizen's and nothing else, they don't care about us, they care about our money.



What if What if.. It would suck but I really doubt it would happen.



What if.. What if... It would be a sad day, but it will never happen.



Agree. I am always for freedom of speech and decentralized places, the most danger for that is probably the middle east where you cant say or do anything without getting killed.

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Conclusion, stop think so much about "What if" and Negativity it's only a waste of your time and you should respect your time more bro and focus on things you actually can improve and change instead and positivity mate.


Best regards
/ BabyBandit.

It hasn't failed being censorship resistant. It hasn't failed being permissionless. It remains denationalized, and resistant to arbitrary monetary policy from the state.

And frankly, that's all we have in our disposal. The moment Bitcoin stops being resistant and permissionless is the very moment it has turned into fiat. It probably will not, because it is designed to not require extensive effort to work. But that does not mean we should completely ignore every potential threat.

I do not see these happening anytime soon.  So I don't make myself worry about this kind of situation



A decentralized wallet will always be available, just like how the government forbids illegal file torrenting, and yet it still exists today, I believe the same thing will happen to the availability of non-custodial Bitcoin wallet.


One cannot hodl for eternity, at some point in time we have to make a profit or make use of the Bitcoins we are holding.  If  the people in charge are those developers and miners and not the government that is setting the high fee, then we cannot do anything about this but setup our own mining pool to confirm a low tx fee transactions.  But if it is the government who is implementing it to centralized services then we can always opt in decentralized services that is not controlled by the government.  I believe there will always a service like decentralized exchanges

Well, in actual reality, crypto has failed to achieve anything besides being another financial instrument to invest in. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but that's the reality.


Yes, absolutely Google itself lives off of your data in lots of ways, but they don't do anything with your actual emails. They work off of aggregated data. I don't discount the privacy concerns with them for a second (my company doesn't even use cookies at all for instance), but your actual emails aren't getting breached unless there's a court order.

Well I hope it doesn't come that. However, like I said the government has done all it could to kill Bitcoin but after realizing that its actions are actually futile, it has no other option than to create a replica (bitcoin spot ETF).

I don't know if you've been following the news lately, the government are beginning to crack down on privacy coins and the reason is because these coins are very difficult to trace. Four years ago, $625,000 bounty was offered by the Internal Revenue Service to anyone who could hack the Monero protocol. This is to tell you how much they want to get rid off what they cannot control.

This is one of the reasons why we love Bitcoin so much.
its acceptance as the global currency to be used that sometimes eases us to do some certain transactions so much. But unfortunately, there are still many who think that Bitcoin transactions require very high fees due to price progress and the network's crowded level, or because of several other things. This means that sometimes some people prefer to use other coins for transactions.

certainly very unfortunate. Yes, of course we will always hope that Bitcoin will become what it was originally created for and can actually progress like that, becoming a truly decentralized currency, free from the grasp of the rulers, and can be freely used. But in reality, it doesn't work exactly as it should. I don't know whether it is all over the world, or maybe only in certain countries. When our activities, businesses related to crypto, exchanges, and others have begun to be linked to the laws of a country, linked to government control, and required to be under the authority of a government, then of course it will no longer be 100% decentralization.

And in reality, many exchange platforms require KYC verification with ID documents and other equipment for certain policy reasons, related to government policy. and whether you like it or not, you have to follow it if you want one day to be able to cash out easily. Of course, this is certainly not in accordance with the heart of the city and the goals of Bitcoin. And it's definitely not that satisfying.

However, what to do? because that is the best way at the moment? At a time when Bitcoin cannot be used as a currency in our country, it can't be helped, while there are still many pros and cons going on here.

Hmmm, of course all of these situations are very unsatisfactory. and I'm also not sure that as time goes by, the government will relax this. or in the sense of not controlling cryptocurrency anymore, I think in the future, the government will increasingly try to get into it.

Yes, but we don't care about the profit as much as the crypto-anarchist virtues. Do we? 'Cause I thought this whole reinvention of money had to do with replacing the current fiat system with something superior, less prone to corruption.

Profit gains are without doubt good news, but if we don't think about these virtues and act accordingly, then we're no different from just another financial scheme.

Google is literally the privacy nightmare of Web2. You can probably keep your documents private from a family member or a friend, but in general? Google lives off your data.

Well, cash (banknotes, not metallic coins) is like BTC in a sense.

Why? Because banknotes have unique serial numbers and they can be deemed "tainted" (if their origins are from a bank robbery, or a VIP abduction etc.)

You won't have any issues exchanging tainted banknotes hand-to-hand, but if you try to deposit them in a bank, you're fucked.

It's the same with BTC: tainted coins are fine in p2p transactions, there's no mechanism to freeze them, unless you try to deposit them in a CEX with KYC/AML.

That's why BTC is called electronic cash in the whitepaper: it was modelled after the physical cash.

So yeah, I agree with you that BTC was never really private (anonymous) to begin with. Just like the internet with IP addresses doesn't offer full anonymity. It's pseudonymous.

I don't really understand people who set up BTC nodes to increase privacy, since every on-chain transaction will be settled in the blockchain. Tor & mixers are another thing (kinda like SELinux).

On the other hand, Monero is private by default (built-in mixing via ring signatures). Just like OpenBSD is security-enhanced by default, unlike vanilla Linux.

Both Bitcoin and Monero have a bright future ahead, but for different purposes/use cases.

Bitcoin's privacy features are often misunderstood. Sure, Bitcoin transactions go on some public ledger for the world to see.  But that don't automatically mean your identity is out there too.  Truth is, if you're careful and know how to use it, Bitcoin can still be pretty private.  The public ledger don't have anything that ties back to your real world identity.



Hahaha! Is that a joke? I would never use anything related to google and the word "private" in the same sentence.



True, since Bitcoin is a digital currency that leaves a digital footprint after all.  But, by that logic, physical Bitcoin is way, way more private than physical cash.