Is trading gambling in another form? - page 4.

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Quote from: DoublerHunter on September 16, 2022, 04:59:58 PM

Quote from: teosanru on September 16, 2022, 02:07:27 PM

Quote from: Outhue on August 25, 2022, 09:22:59 AM

Gambling is betting something valuable on an uncertainty outcome right? Isn't this the same with Trading?/i mean even pro traders said out of 10 trades you can lose 4 and win 6, is this not a form of gambling? I had this argument with few of my friends that are traders some hours ago and I will like to here from you all what hou think about this.

If you develop a system and have a record book of your trades in which you can prove a 60% win probability over a sample space of say 100 Trades, then it's definitely not Gambling. Gambling just has 49% probability of winning over a longer term which means there are 100% chances you will end up losing money over a 100 or let's say 1000 gambles sample because of the House Edge. In trading first thing that you can do is have a risk-reward ratio to ensure that you are losing less on bad trades and winning more on winning trades with this even 60% of correct trades can give you 50-60% ROI on your money. But yes if you are doing it blindly just buying and selling then obviously it's nothing less than a form of gambling.

^ You are definitely right, if you don't have knowledge in trading and doing it blindly without any calculation or everything then, that is a form of gambling.
Because you are just relying on luck and the result of your action in the market hoping that there is a big return or ROI.
Trading cannot be called it is a form of gambling once you have knowledge of it, because this is not based on luck, it needs pure skills that improve your chances to chase profit. It needs technical and fundamental analysis in trading while in gambling this is not applicable.

That is the main difference, those that do not really know anything about trading and that rely on signals or hunches cannot be said to be trading and instead they are gambling, but those which have dedicated years of their life to study the markets and to create several strategies in order to profit from them cannot be said to be gambling because they are not relying on their luck, now it is true that even with those strategies they cannot win all the time, however we need to question ourselves who is able to win all the time at anything? And when we think about it no one can do something like that, so that argument that is used against traders in order to liken trading to gambling lacks any substance.

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Quote from: Outhue on August 25, 2022, 09:22:59 AM

Gambling is betting something valuable on an uncertainty outcome right? Isn't this the same with Trading?/i mean even pro traders said out of 10 trades you can lose 4 and win 6, is this not a form of gambling? I had this argument with few of my friends that are traders some hours ago and I will like to here from you all what hou think about this.

I think it's different when you can do some analysis for trading but not for gambling, both of them have their own risk and we can't predict what will exactly happen in the future. I do once think that gambling and trading is likely the same but because when I do trading without any skill/education and only do YOLO, so when I got a profit I think that my profit is like a gamble.

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Quote from: sana54210 on September 17, 2022, 03:10:44 PM

Quote from: Natalim on September 16, 2022, 04:28:10 AM

Quote from: Fireebrand on September 16, 2022, 02:06:59 AM

Not if everything is calculated! Gamblers lack market knowledge and have a wrong mindset when it comes to trade. They look for ways to make quick money. However, on the other hand, traders have an approach and they take many things into consideration before taking the final call.Hence, they have more chances of earning.

It is really to know that people haven't changed their minds but consider crypto trading as an easy way to make money or earn profit just like what they know about gambling - instant millionaire.
Trading requires knowledge and skill while Gambling needs knowledge, skill, and of course LUCK. And they are both risky but the chances of earning from gambling are very slim, unlike if we do trading.
Well, if they actually know the difference between the two will help them realize that they are wrong and change their market approach.

That's right, the luck part is the difference and the house edge is also another big reason. While gambling, the casino you are gambling against would have some sort of leverage against you, meaning you should be losing more often than you win, not in the amount of bets, but the money you earn is less than money you lose on each bet, and that makes sure that casino stays afloat.

When trading exchanges make money either way, even if you lose or earn, because they take a cut from your trades, meaning there isn't anyone trying to make you lose money, nobody cares about it, so if you are good at what you do, then you could make a good chunk of profit from it.

Thats how business works and gamblers doesnt really mind much about house edge but rather they would be mainly thinking about on the current things that they've been dealing.As long they could get those winning moments or situations then they would really make out bets for longer runs or as long as they do have those capital or money into their pockets.Risk is higher on something which you've been dealing
that has house edge.

COmparing up gambling to trading is totally different.Risk would be there but the level of risk would be entirely differ into each other and you would eventually find out for yourself
about these stuffs when you do have active dealing in both things.You would eventually realize the differences.

sana54210

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Quote from: Natalim on September 16, 2022, 04:28:10 AM

Quote from: Fireebrand on September 16, 2022, 02:06:59 AM

Not if everything is calculated! Gamblers lack market knowledge and have a wrong mindset when it comes to trade. They look for ways to make quick money. However, on the other hand, traders have an approach and they take many things into consideration before taking the final call.Hence, they have more chances of earning.

It is really to know that people haven't changed their minds but consider crypto trading as an easy way to make money or earn profit just like what they know about gambling - instant millionaire.
Trading requires knowledge and skill while Gambling needs knowledge, skill, and of course LUCK. And they are both risky but the chances of earning from gambling are very slim, unlike if we do trading.
Well, if they actually know the difference between the two will help them realize that they are wrong and change their market approach.

That's right, the luck part is the difference and the house edge is also another big reason. While gambling, the casino you are gambling against would have some sort of leverage against you, meaning you should be losing more often than you win, not in the amount of bets, but the money you earn is less than money you lose on each bet, and that makes sure that casino stays afloat.

When trading exchanges make money either way, even if you lose or earn, because they take a cut from your trades, meaning there isn't anyone trying to make you lose money, nobody cares about it, so if you are good at what you do, then you could make a good chunk of profit from it.

teosanru

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Quote from: dunfida on September 16, 2022, 04:45:01 PM

Quote from: teosanru on September 16, 2022, 02:07:27 PM

Quote from: Outhue on August 25, 2022, 09:22:59 AM

Gambling is betting something valuable on an uncertainty outcome right? Isn't this the same with Trading?/i mean even pro traders said out of 10 trades you can lose 4 and win 6, is this not a form of gambling? I had this argument with few of my friends that are traders some hours ago and I will like to here from you all what hou think about this.

If you develop a system and have a record book of your trades in which you can prove a 60% win probability over a sample space of say 100 Trades, then it's definitely not Gambling. Gambling just has 49% probability of winning over a longer term which means there are 100% chances you will end up losing money over a 100 or let's say 1000 gambles sample because of the House Edge. In trading first thing that you can do is have a risk-reward ratio to ensure that you are losing less on bad trades and winning more on winning trades with this even 60% of correct trades can give you 50-60% ROI on your money. But yes if you are doing it blindly just buying and selling then obviously it's nothing less than a form of gambling.

Trying out your best on having that 60% chance of winning rather than on going below 50 but it doesnt mean that you are already doing gambling because as long you do put up any analysis and in depth application of

those things that you do have learned then it isnt really something that you can called gambling.Both things are entirely different because if you do make out some trades without having any analysis
that backs up on it then you are just doing gambling.

Trading does have that risk which is normal because in every investment that we do really engage, then there's always comes a risk.

Yes obviously testing the system is something that can be an exception to the 60% rule that is why my answer started with once you have made the system. I think you are not trading until you have made a system till then you are just experimenting the market. One very insightful thing someone told me about trading is that trading is very boring, because you know the result of your action. If you are buying a coin because it triggered a signal in your system you eventually know that either it will hit the TP in this much time or it will hit this SL in this much time. When you know the result things become boring. It's in gambling that you have n number of outcomes which keeps you interested and glued in front of screen.

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Quote from: teosanru on September 16, 2022, 02:07:27 PM

Quote from: Outhue on August 25, 2022, 09:22:59 AM

Gambling is betting something valuable on an uncertainty outcome right? Isn't this the same with Trading?/i mean even pro traders said out of 10 trades you can lose 4 and win 6, is this not a form of gambling? I had this argument with few of my friends that are traders some hours ago and I will like to here from you all what hou think about this.

If you develop a system and have a record book of your trades in which you can prove a 60% win probability over a sample space of say 100 Trades, then it's definitely not Gambling. Gambling just has 49% probability of winning over a longer term which means there are 100% chances you will end up losing money over a 100 or let's say 1000 gambles sample because of the House Edge. In trading first thing that you can do is have a risk-reward ratio to ensure that you are losing less on bad trades and winning more on winning trades with this even 60% of correct trades can give you 50-60% ROI on your money. But yes if you are doing it blindly just buying and selling then obviously it's nothing less than a form of gambling.

^ You are definitely right, if you don't have knowledge in trading and doing it blindly without any calculation or everything then, that is a form of gambling.
Because you are just relying on luck and the result of your action in the market hoping that there is a big return or ROI.
Trading cannot be called it is a form of gambling once you have knowledge of it, because this is not based on luck, it needs pure skills that improve your chances to chase profit. It needs technical and fundamental analysis in trading while in gambling this is not applicable.

dunfida

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Quote from: teosanru on September 16, 2022, 02:07:27 PM

Quote from: Outhue on August 25, 2022, 09:22:59 AM

Gambling is betting something valuable on an uncertainty outcome right? Isn't this the same with Trading?/i mean even pro traders said out of 10 trades you can lose 4 and win 6, is this not a form of gambling? I had this argument with few of my friends that are traders some hours ago and I will like to here from you all what hou think about this.

If you develop a system and have a record book of your trades in which you can prove a 60% win probability over a sample space of say 100 Trades, then it's definitely not Gambling. Gambling just has 49% probability of winning over a longer term which means there are 100% chances you will end up losing money over a 100 or let's say 1000 gambles sample because of the House Edge. In trading first thing that you can do is have a risk-reward ratio to ensure that you are losing less on bad trades and winning more on winning trades with this even 60% of correct trades can give you 50-60% ROI on your money. But yes if you are doing it blindly just buying and selling then obviously it's nothing less than a form of gambling.

Trying out your best on having that 60% chance of winning rather than on going below 50 but it doesnt mean that you are already doing gambling because as long you do put up any analysis and in depth application of

those things that you do have learned then it isnt really something that you can called gambling.Both things are entirely different because if you do make out some trades without having any analysis
that backs up on it then you are just doing gambling.

Trading does have that risk which is normal because in every investment that we do really engage, then there's always comes a risk.

teosanru

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Quote from: Outhue on August 25, 2022, 09:22:59 AM

Gambling is betting something valuable on an uncertainty outcome right? Isn't this the same with Trading?/i mean even pro traders said out of 10 trades you can lose 4 and win 6, is this not a form of gambling? I had this argument with few of my friends that are traders some hours ago and I will like to here from you all what hou think about this.

If you develop a system and have a record book of your trades in which you can prove a 60% win probability over a sample space of say 100 Trades, then it's definitely not Gambling. Gambling just has 49% probability of winning over a longer term which means there are 100% chances you will end up losing money over a 100 or let's say 1000 gambles sample because of the House Edge. In trading first thing that you can do is have a risk-reward ratio to ensure that you are losing less on bad trades and winning more on winning trades with this even 60% of correct trades can give you 50-60% ROI on your money. But yes if you are doing it blindly just buying and selling then obviously it's nothing less than a form of gambling.

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Quote from: Fireebrand on September 16, 2022, 02:06:59 AM

Not if everything is calculated! Gamblers lack market knowledge and have a wrong mindset when it comes to trade. They look for ways to make quick money. However, on the other hand, traders have an approach and they take many things into consideration before taking the final call.Hence, they have more chances of earning.

It is really to know that people haven't changed their minds but consider crypto trading as an easy way to make money or earn profit just like what they know about gambling - instant millionaire.
Trading requires knowledge and skill while Gambling needs knowledge, skill, and of course LUCK. And they are both risky but the chances of earning from gambling are very slim, unlike if we do trading.
Well, if they actually know the difference between the two will help them realize that they are wrong and change their market approach.

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Quote from: Marvell1 on September 02, 2022, 12:40:13 AM

Quote from: Masplanc on August 29, 2022, 10:13:22 AM

Gambling and trading are two different things , Gambling is a game that having experience in it can never determine if you can win or not. Trading is a skill that people learn , that has rule or strategy to get profit. In trading people study the market to know when is the right time to sell or buy.

Basically, both gambling and trading have one thing in common which is making a profit. If you enter a trade without any knowledge or skill then that is really called gambling, not trading anymore.

In gambling, you cannot use analytical knowledge to make any judgments, it just depends on your playing experience and it takes a bit of luck to win. On the contrary when you trade, to make a profit you have to learn a lot, it must be said that the knowledge of trading is endless, you can never learn it all. In trading, we must combine knowledge and experience to make the most accurate decisions to be profitable.

Hence, trading will not fall into gambling if you only trade with knowledge and skills. And with experienced traders, trading is trading, so its goal is to be more profitable and create limitless source of profits. However, with newbies in trading, mostly they end up with gambling because they start trading when they are not yet prepared and skilled about it.

Fireebrand

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Not if everything is calculated! Gamblers lack market knowledge and have a wrong mindset when it comes to trade. They look for ways to make quick money. However, on the other hand, traders have an approach and they take many things into consideration before taking the final call.Hence, they have more chances of earning.

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Quote from: Desmong on September 12, 2022, 05:21:20 PM

Trading is like gambling so I will not be surprised if some persons that are not traders will hit me up and argue it that trading does not look like gambling. Trading is very risky just like we gamble on something that we thing we are going to win. If you place a trade, it means you are betting that the coin you are holding is going to move well whether upward or downward based of your direction.

Betting on the coin to go up or down is different from buying that coin at low price and waiting for it to go up. The first one sounds more like leverage while the second one is spot trading. The first one is a type of gambling while the second one is not.

Depending on how a trader approaches the market, of they are getting engrossed into the trades so much that they are losing track of family and work life balance, this becomes gambling.

Still it is possible to keep trading limited to spot trading and not allow it to becom gambling. But this differs and those who become addicted need to avoid trading.

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Quote from: Outhue on August 25, 2022, 09:22:59 AM

Isn't this the same with Trading?/i mean even pro traders said out of 10 trades you can lose 4 and win 6, is this not a form of gambling?

So, you can apply it to everything in this world then? Let's say you enroll for job interviews and you only get 1 interview out of 10 that you have enrolled before, is it gambling? No!
They rejected probably because you don't meet the requirements or just your behavior in general. Same logic could be applied in trading, you probably missed the opportunity or just didn't have enough research before that's why you lose. Unlike gambling where it's completely just luck-based and your money gone in a second.

If it's trading is some sort of gambling then how about stock trading, or even just trading the fiat money in general? Is it gambling? They are separate stuff

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Quote from: Outhue on August 25, 2022, 09:22:59 AM

Gambling is betting something valuable on an uncertainty outcome right? Isn't this the same with Trading?/i mean even pro traders said out of 10 trades you can lose 4 and win 6, is this not a form of gambling? I had this argument with few of my friends that are traders some hours ago and I will like to here from you all what hou think about this.

Trading is like gambling so I will not be surprised if some persons that are not traders will hit me up and argue it that trading does not look like gambling. Trading is very risky just like we gamble on something that we thing we are going to win. If you place a trade, it means you are betting that the coin you are holding is going to move well whether upward or downward based of your direction.

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Quote from: Kasabus on September 12, 2022, 06:21:10 PM

Hence, trading will not fall into gambling if you only trade with knowledge and skills. And with experienced traders, trading is trading, so its goal is to be more profitable and create limitless source of profits. However, with newbies in trading, mostly they end up with gambling because they start trading when they are not yet prepared and skilled about it.

Gambling and trading are both similar and they often are misunderstood by people more often. Trading required it's noticeable and required fundamental, tchnical and Sentimental analysis while gambling just needs the accurate number of game results and their odds. Gamblers tend to make more profits in gambly when their betting slip favor them while traders makes profits when either they short or long a coin and it goes directly as planned for them. Trading is pure gambling for some traders who don't sacrifice their time to study the basic of trade before hopping into opening positions.

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Quote from: Luqman on September 12, 2022, 06:05:54 PM

Quote from: Desmong on September 12, 2022, 05:21:20 PM

Trading is like gambling so I will not be surprised if some persons that are not traders will hit me up and argue it that trading does not look like gambling. Trading is very risky just like we gamble on something that we thing we are going to win. If you place a trade, it means you are betting that the coin you are holding is going to move well whether upward or downward based of your direction.

It is not true that trading is like gambling. Of course, both trading and gambling have risks and no guarantee for profits. But gambling basically relies on luck, while trading doesn't depend on luck to get a good result (profits) but depends on the experience and knowledge of the traders. You have to know this basic difference, don't generalize it because both have risks. However, for the people who trade with no knowledge, you may call them as betting their coins. Or when people choose trading future, it is almost the same as gambling.

I am also one of those who do not agree to equate gambling with trading, because the two are clearly different if we study further.
Maybe for a newbie the two are almost the same, but for people who are experienced in the trading world, and have good analytical skills.
The opportunity to make a profit from trading should be greater, so it is not surprising that some people turn to trading as a main job.
Because professional traders can generate profits that are greater than the losses they experience. While gambling that relies on luck,
it is definitely not possible to achieve sustainable profit. That's why gambling can't be used as a source of income. We will begin to be able
to distinguish that gambling and trading are different, after we learn trading properly. So don't be in a rush to trade, we must do careful
preparation before trading. Like learning the basics about trading, so we know how to minimize trading risks and can generate sustainable profits.

Luqman

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Quote from: Desmong on September 12, 2022, 05:21:20 PM

Trading is like gambling so I will not be surprised if some persons that are not traders will hit me up and argue it that trading does not look like gambling. Trading is very risky just like we gamble on something that we thing we are going to win. If you place a trade, it means you are betting that the coin you are holding is going to move well whether upward or downward based of your direction.

It is not true that trading is like gambling. Of course, both trading and gambling have risks and no guarantee for profits. But gambling basically relies on luck, while trading doesn't depend on luck to get a good result (profits) but depends on the experience and knowledge of the traders. You have to know this basic difference, don't generalize it because both have risks. However, for the people who trade with no knowledge, you may call them as betting their coins. Or when people choose trading future, it is almost the same as gambling.

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Some form of trading is like gambling. Both have got its difference. With trading we have multiple options to lower the loss. We predict the price to reach X, but this didn't happen. So, we can just hold and the market will reach the target. This needs time and we should have the patience. With gambling it is all about the result, we predict the outcome and based on the coincidence of our prediction with the outcome we'll be rewarded with the amount we've risked.

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Quote from: Anguwa on September 12, 2022, 02:39:16 PM

There is a slight difference between them, but some people will confuse them. Gambling has no refund; once you have initiated or staked your game, you will have to wait for the outcome before knowing your faith; whereas trading can be monitored and even changed by the trader; the trader can decide not to trade again and take back his initial investment, and he can also take any profit he has at any time and decide whether to end it soon or not.

Trading that deserves to be called gambling is when the trader only has two choices when buying as we know in binary options trading. I think binary options is a gamble where the trader just guesses the price between going up or down to make a profit. It doesn't happen in spot trading or anything so it's not correct to call it gambling. In spot trading, someone will also be said to be gambling when only guessing when buying an asset in the hope that the price will rise as predicted. They don't do the analysis and just hope it goes the way they want.

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Quote from: Anguwa on September 12, 2022, 02:39:16 PM

There is a slight difference between them, but some people will confuse them. Gambling has no refund; once you have initiated or staked your game, you will have to wait for the outcome before knowing your faith; whereas trading can be monitored and even changed by the trader; the trader can decide not to trade again and take back his initial investment, and he can also take any profit he has at any time and decide whether to end it soon or not.

It really is confusing in a sense that you're always doing the same thing yet there are factors that differs each of them.

But with what you've said about refund, they're also the same with it. What you've said in gambling about no refund, you're free to withdraw it at any time as well.

As long as you're on the threshold and minimum withdrawal, you'll be allowed to.

Topic: Is trading gambling in another form? - page 4. (Read 1379 times)