Is True Decentralization a Myth? - page 2.

leea-1334

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on November 17, 2019, 02:14:34 PM

Quote from: tsaroz on November 15, 2019, 08:59:34 PM

Just like a true democracy, we would never have a true decentralization. Arguably the most decentralized coin bitcoin is controlled by miners and developers while the largest amount are hold by early adopters and whale investors.

SegWit2x shown us that miners don't have full control over Bitcoin - they simply follow the price, meaning they have to follow the community.

Not only that,,, even the old miners themselves generally saw what happened with BCH and then they themselves decided not to go with SegWit2x. This to me shows that even though people have been against Bitcoin, they know now that what they proposed was wrong and dangerous.

People will still choose and their choice is very clear in today's price.

TheClownSong

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Quote from: Abiky on November 15, 2019, 05:06:56 PM

Since Bitcoin was created, Blockchain technology promised to bring full decentralization over people's funds. Each cryptocurrency has a certain level/degree of decentralization depending on the consensus algorithm used and the number of distributed nodes worldwide. While Bitcoin is known to be the most decentralized cryptocurrency today, it still has a certain level of centralization attached to it. PoW is not perfect, as well as, PoS, DPoS and other consensus algorithms.

In the search of "True Decentralization", I found out that there's no such thing. One way or another, a cryptocurrency will have some level of centralization as nothing is perfect in this life. Which is why, I'm starting to think if "True Decentralization" is more of a myth than anything else? What are your thoughts? Huh

I think coins like Bitcoin will remain decentralized because mining will continue. Transaction data is not stored in a data center and is spread across all the computers that record it and this is a decentralized form of Bitcoin. For tokens, centralization might occur because the supply controller is still in the developer team and the team can intervene in the market price

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Quote from: Abiky on November 15, 2019, 05:06:56 PM

Since Bitcoin was created, Blockchain technology promised to bring full decentralization over people's funds. Each cryptocurrency has a certain level/degree of decentralization depending on the consensus algorithm used and the number of distributed nodes worldwide. While Bitcoin is known to be the most decentralized cryptocurrency today, it still has a certain level of centralization attached to it. PoW is not perfect, as well as, PoS, DPoS and other consensus algorithms.

In the search of "True Decentralization", I found out that there's no such thing. One way or another, a cryptocurrency will have some level of centralization as nothing is perfect in this life. Which is why, I'm starting to think if "True Decentralization" is more of a myth than anything else? What are your thoughts? Huh

In fact there are a number of big players fighting over for bitcoin to be centralized for themselves, we can see with the dramas that have already taken place.
People who really want bitcoin to be decentralized prefer to keep quiet and keep trying to introduce bitcoin to everyone with all their expertise.

joinfree

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You have a very good point mate, in as much as we claim to see cryptocurrency fully decentralized this has never been the case in most of the major cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin, Ethereum etc. Almost all those who still operate using the PoW consensus protocol are can be centralized if those nodes with high computing power can come together to attack the network. However, these nodes have stayed honest because of the benefits that they gain from the network other than the reward that they would get if they should harm the network.

oxgroth

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100% decentralization is a myth but we are should trying to achive as much as possible

Karto

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decentralization is not a myth.. its just meterpretered differently by people and also being used by project leaders in different ways to confuse people.
its just like privacy is being used by mark zuckerberg to confuse people. he is saying that facebook cares about privacy while it does not cares about privacy at all , but in technical level it does so you can not complaint, while they are selling your info to hunderds of organizations..
same thin decentralization.. you can have many levels of decentralization and scammers use that to confuse you.

only projects who are close to decentralization are BTC and ETC
dont believe if someone tells you otherwise

henmark

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I believe that we have over 200 million users of cryptocurrency, and believe me that not everyone really understand what decentralization is all about, some of them just know that people are using crypto, while some of them are just more concerned about the use if it for investment whether it is a decentralized project or centralized project.

Very few people that are really more concerned about decentralization will really not care much about this project because their name already said it all, it has already said what they intend giving to the public, and people like me will not even look back into the project to see what they have to offer because I personally already have a little doubt about the project and its future growth.

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Quote from: meliodas on November 17, 2019, 07:44:21 PM

Decentralization is not a myth because if decentralization is a myth then the government should already stop the operation of cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin. Bitcoin should not be available in the internet since the government doesn't want to deal with bitcoin because of its anonymity. Decentralization exists and it helps a lot of people in doing transactions.

Some people only see decentralized is about exchange, although not all but mostly discussion is about market that means centralized, wallet, etc. I will agree with you because if Bitcoin is centralized, and controlled by some organization or maybe government, people across the world wouldn't use it easily like now although in some country it has been banned.

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Quote from: ecnalubma on November 15, 2019, 08:33:33 PM

I tend to believe too that Bitcoin is not fully decentralised yet due to unequal distribution because large miners can influence prices and has partial control in the ecosystem. But once it will become more diversified and distributed equally among users worldwide then full decentralisation might be achievable but very slim possibility.

With ASIC mining that is hard to achieve. Some company developed better ASIC miner. They make them and mine on their own. This was is and will be reality. Someone from Guatemala or Swaziland or Tadzikistan cant dream to afford that miner. True mining decentralisation can only happen with algos that favourite CPU mining.

One computer one vote a smart guy used to say.

meliodas

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Decentralization is not a myth because if decentralization is a myth then the government should already stop the operation of cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin. Bitcoin should not be available in the internet since the government doesn't want to deal with bitcoin because of its anonymity. Decentralization exists and it helps a lot of people in doing transactions.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on November 17, 2019, 02:14:34 PM

Quote from: tsaroz on November 15, 2019, 08:59:34 PM

Just like a true democracy, we would never have a true decentralization. Arguably the most decentralized coin bitcoin is controlled by miners and developers while the largest amount are hold by early adopters and whale investors.

SegWit2x shown us that miners don't have full control over Bitcoin - they simply follow the price, meaning they have to follow the community.

It became more of democratic rather than saying it is decentralized.
The agreement that users will make is by having a choice or an option.
We could stop using it and go back to the normal one or just the old one. That is better than nothing.

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on November 17, 2019, 02:14:34 PM

Quote from: tsaroz on November 15, 2019, 08:59:34 PM

The price is mostly determined by the manipulation rather than the market.

People tend to exaggerate the power of manipulation.

In conclusion, Bitcoin doesn't have any big problems with centralization.

Yeah, I also disagree with people calling it manipulation.
We are going larger in numbers now and if we are holding even just 1000 satoshis in our wallets then manipulating it will be difficult.

kawetsriyanto

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The first objective of blockchain technology implemented in BTC may be decentralized. However, over time, it continues to grow.
In this case, many developers end up creating blockchain-based projects in which decentralization is no longer 100% due to one thing or another.
And of course, the concept of decentralization will relate to the type of platform or coin or token offered.

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Quote from: aprilnot on November 15, 2019, 10:30:09 PM

there is no perfect decentralization, all consensus has its drawbacks. so don't be surprised by this. but I think the current blockchain technology (except POS / DPOS) is better and far from centralized. even though it's not perfect yet, but we can still compromise on this.

POW or DPOS/POS have its own disadvantage and advantage. As per the possibility of 51% attack and holders have not power in POW system and totally controlled by the miners. We can see that when there will be an implementation to the any improvement proposal and the miners the only party that has the right to give vote. In POS system has the different mechanism. But as far as I believe bitcoin is the only true decentralized blockchain which is not even controlling by a team behind it like almost of all coins in the market except dogecoin.

POW can be centralized, DAG is verified as a centralized system.

tenakha

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Quote from: Abiky on November 15, 2019, 05:06:56 PM

Since Bitcoin was created, Blockchain technology promised to bring full decentralization over people's funds. Each cryptocurrency has a certain level/degree of decentralization depending on the consensus algorithm used and the number of distributed nodes worldwide. While Bitcoin is known to be the most decentralized cryptocurrency today, it still has a certain level of centralization attached to it. PoW is not perfect, as well as, PoS, DPoS and other consensus algorithms.

In the search of "True Decentralization", I found out that there's no such thing. One way or another, a cryptocurrency will have some level of centralization as nothing is perfect in this life. Which is why, I'm starting to think if "True Decentralization" is more of a myth than anything else? What are your thoughts? Huh

Who cares about decentralization if there is no profit? Already the market has changed a lot compared to the past, most of us forgot what our main goal is. How many of us are using DEX? maybe 1 from 10. Because DEXs are not profitable. The profitable ones are Binance's IEOs and what they list. Do not get me wrong, but the truth is so painful in this regard.

r32godzilla

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Quote from: Abiky on November 15, 2019, 05:06:56 PM

Since Bitcoin was created, Blockchain technology promised to bring full decentralization over people's funds. Each cryptocurrency has a certain level/degree of decentralization depending on the consensus algorithm used and the number of distributed nodes worldwide. While Bitcoin is known to be the most decentralized cryptocurrency today, it still has a certain level of centralization attached to it. PoW is not perfect, as well as, PoS, DPoS and other consensus algorithms.

In the search of "True Decentralization", I found out that there's no such thing. One way or another, a cryptocurrency will have some level of centralization as nothing is perfect in this life. Which is why, I'm starting to think if "True Decentralization" is more of a myth than anything else? What are your thoughts? Huh

Cryptocurrencies that are close to the true decentralization: Bitcoin, Grin and Cardano.
Bitcoin and Grin are very close to achieve the true decentralization because they do not have CEO, there is no person with special power and I believe that in the future the wealt will be redistributed.
And Cardano promises to achive more decentralized blockchain with the Shelley update, everyone who owns ADA will be able to maintain the blockchain.

poornamelessme

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Complete decentralization is a myth. However 'good enough' decentralization is probably closer to reality. At least for BTC and some coins. For smaller cap coins decentralization may be a myth however, as the rich would centralize ownership of POS coins, while the poor would only be a small fraction. Just the way it is.

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Quote from: Abiky on November 15, 2019, 05:06:56 PM

Since Bitcoin was created, Blockchain technology promised to bring full decentralization over people's funds. Each cryptocurrency has a certain level/degree of decentralization depending on the consensus algorithm used and the number of distributed nodes worldwide. While Bitcoin is known to be the most decentralized cryptocurrency today, it still has a certain level of centralization attached to it. PoW is not perfect, as well as, PoS, DPoS and other consensus algorithms.

In the search of "True Decentralization", I found out that there's no such thing. One way or another, a cryptocurrency will have some level of centralization as nothing is perfect in this life. Which is why, I'm starting to think if "True Decentralization" is more of a myth than anything else? What are your thoughts? Huh

Define "True Decentralization" and you quickly notice that doesn't exist. Everything is centralized by the very fact that everything is focused on somewhere, even if the area is wider. Real power in decentralization is the permissionless blockchain, and it doesn't really matter how far we get on decentalization because there's no end on that road that would be some ultimate decentralized product. Just getting far away as we can from absolute centralization is enough for me.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: tsaroz on November 15, 2019, 08:59:34 PM

Just like a true democracy, we would never have a true decentralization. Arguably the most decentralized coin bitcoin is controlled by miners and developers while the largest amount are hold by early adopters and whale investors.

SegWit2x shown us that miners don't have full control over Bitcoin - they simply follow the price, meaning they have to follow the community.

As for developers, Bitcoin is an open source project, everyone is free to contribute, those who don't agree with maintainers can create their own versions. I'm sure if developers did something that wouldn't be accepted by the community, people would just run the client that they agree with.

Bitcoin's supply distribution isn't a big problem, since we don't have PoS.

Quote from: tsaroz on November 15, 2019, 08:59:34 PM

The price is mostly determined by the manipulation rather than the market.

People tend to exaggerate the power of manipulation.

In conclusion, Bitcoin doesn't have any big problems with centralization.

abeecrypto

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There is no full decentralisation. I repeat! There is no full decentralisation. I doubt if there is going to be such. But there are platforms that are far less centralised than the other. That is what blockchain implemented concepts provide: far less centralisation. This ‘far less centralisation’ only creeps towards true decentralisation.

But, hey, I would still prefer 'far less centralisation' to traditional centralisation.

Only time will tell if true decentralisation is achievable or not.

Ucy

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No, it's not a myth atall. Nothing is impossible really. People probably don't understand what true decentralization is, or don't know how to make things truely decentralized or don't want people to know that true decentralization is possible. I don't want to say much about this. I believe a time will come when most people will yern for true decentralizion.

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