Topic: Isn't Roger ver showing all how the industry will behave in the longterm Future? (Read 247 times)

well jes we establish cryptoeconomics for good reasons, because the current financial system is indeed broken, but we will need a working cryptoeconomics and not a neverending propaganda beacon, that constantly radiats people with advertisement of new coins and new systems.

paper money is also very rarely doing that, its mostly about political ideals.

Roger Ver is an eccentric character and the way in which he represents things might not be in the best interest of many people but i see Craig as a person who has a deep understanding of things rather than just blabbering things, lets forget about his claims of being the creator and lets focus on what he says and some of his ideas seems crazy but if he could implement these things then it will be great.


We have this entire market simply because of the white paper and it does have an importance and if someone can implement everything in bitcoin as the white paper says, it is great as i do not want to see thousands of alt coins which can do specific functions, i just want a single coin with all the functions and that can be transfered world wide for everything and i do not want alt coins for specific needs.

The main reason for the implementation of bitcoin is to move away from banks and have a currency that could be sent world wide without the help of a third party and that is the real purpose, if you read the white paper you will understand clearly what it means, i want to use bitcoin as a currency primarily and if i am getting a profit with it, then it is an advantage. If people are looking at bitcoin just as a store of value it will be just a speculative market .

the problem is that you guys still are pushing bitcoin as money, by billions of people people simply didnt pushed for creating money or payment innovations outside of the banking sector as the people wanted their stable and secure states.

if people wanted to create billions of coins to lay around seeking idiots that are supposed to work for those, people would have done it.

now the entire internet and world will be trashed with scamcoins to take the fruits of those that work for money....

regards

oh.. and as for the jgarzic/Ver/craig wright    ||    gmax/theymos/adam back  storyline

thats just kardashian drama

its all 2 side of the same penny.
its all one big illusion. to confuse the sheep into fighting over which field to grase while the shephard is shouting out commands to the sheepdogs to point them in any direction.

the sheep think they own the fields. but the shepherd is just moving them all around until its time to lock the sheep into a barn and then turn the field into profitable wheat

if you cannot see the similarity about how
(CW) adam back said he was involved in bitcoins invention (adam back wrote NO bitcoin code on or prior to 2009)
(Jgar)greg maxwell coded a node
(ver)theymos has domains to promote a certain node as the bitcoin
who does that sound like (hint above)
its all one big social drama mirror illusion to distract the sheep while centralising bitcoin into corporate/banking hands(DCG/hyperledger).

take the other puppet actors
hearne runs off to R3 and starts helping with hyperledger (blockstream partner and banking cartel)
gavin runs off to bloq and starts helping with hyperledger (blockstream partner and banking cartel)
gmax, luke JR, matt corrolla PRETEND to not be founders/part of blockstream now yet starts helping with hyperledger (blockstream partner and banking cartel)
all pretending to hate each other. yet are all just social drama pawns playing a hidden game of chess for the same side

i laughed when people actually beleived gmax left blockstream (a company valued over $100m)

its all a 3 card swap trick to get people looking for the queen while not noticing whos holding the bets
its all a 3 grass field trick to get sheep jumping and bleeting at othr sheep while not noticing whos whistling commands at the sharp teethed sheepdog

It's sad how many people completely misunderstand Roger Ver. Few people have done more than him to contribute to Bitcoins initial success. And we should all be grateful for that. I understand that many people don't like what Roger is doing with Bitcoin.com, and that's OK. But it obviously has nothing to do with BCH itself. And while I don't agree with him promoting BCH as the real Bitcoin, I do understand where he's coming from and why he's so passionate about Bitcoin. Consider this, for the past seven years, he has put his heart and soul into promoting Bitcoin full time. And since he was one of the first people to really 'get it', and to promote and invest in Bitcoin in a big way, he probably thinks of Bitcoin as his little baby. So what happens to Bitcoin, and the name itself, is obviously very personal to him. And since BCH works in the same way as Bitcoin did before 2016, and BTC does not, while I don't agree with him, I understand where he's coming from.

There's no denying that the main purpose and attractiveness of Bitcoin, and what made it successful in the first place, is the fact that we could send almost instant peer-to-peer transactions basically for free. But when fees and confirmation times went up during 2016-17, Bitcoin stopped working as it used to and was no longer useful as electronic cash. And that's why BCH was created (and btw, to OP, Roger Ver did not create it, nor was there any pre-mine). The increased block size will make sure that no fee spikes or delays occur in the future as usage grows, because unpredictable fees and confirmation times is a death sentence for merchant adoption, as we have seen with BTC over the past year. And for those of us who believe that merchant adoption is the key to Bitcoin's success (and future value), doing this is absolutely crucial (and gives us time to develop those 2nd layer solutions while Bitcoin is still working and growing). As a long-time Bitcoin fan, it's just sad to see these things happening on BCH instead of BTC. And I'm sure Roger feels exactly the same.

want to know the real big picture
core (the puppets) are tied by the paid devs of BLOQ and Blockstream. who are funded by DCG.co

DCG have given out millions of dollars in set financial tranches, one of which only got released if segwit got released.
segwit only had 35% community support. hense employing bloq to get rid of the 65% opposition.

this is because the DCG want LN to be the sole payment network for mainstream.
 so it can link to the hyperledger (bankers fiat chain.. oops not chain, i meant DLT*)
this is why core devs introduced the BC1q adress types to while inside LN identify a LN paymnt as a bitcoin core chain based.

hyperledger with their FIAT chains will have america= USD1q addresses UK=GBP1q addresses, and so on
and the hyperledger(fiat banks) that do swaps and payments will manage the major LN hubs (bank branches)

yes i know most are salivating over the idea that LN will allow FIAT/bitcoin core swaps. but it WILL NOT be rgulation/KYC free
people are already noticing problems with LN now about it becoming an issue to 'open channels' randomly due to fnding issues
and counter party authorisation issues.

but anyway, LN is the reason core have been very very loud that bitcoin cores chain is not a payment network but a 'store of value' (lik a bank note/bearer bold) but if you want a digital funds transfer LN is the future. (bitcoin core onchain will be the slow and expensive cash/cheque processing)

because shortly after LN takes over and destroys the blockchain immutible security of satoshi's invention. what will be left of bitcoin cores chain, is a UTXO set being hashed/updated and all the historic data prunned away, becasue all they care about is the UTXO set (DLT*)

yes thats big picture stuff, and yea i summerised it down.
*distributed ledger technology (not decentralised blockchain as that is what they want to become obsolete)

TL:DR;
core are destroying decentralisation and trying to promote distributed ledger
decentralised and distributed are 2 separate things

the problem is that the bitcoin core group sooner or later will lose interest pushing their coin.

industry will have to live with new coins all the time.

regards

OP with false propaganda.. so lets clarify the truth and why the core paid devs are desparate to OWN BITCOIN

BLOQ created bitcoin cash
BLOQ made it to shift all core opposers away from core so that core can jump from 35% vote to 95% vote by getting rid of opposition
(segwit bilateral split)
BLOQ is a financial partner of the paid devs of core(blockstream).
https://dcg.co/portfolio/#b

DCG an blockstream and bloq are also partners with bitpay, coinbase and.. the biggest crypto media coindesk

what i really find strange is why none of the core fanboys are attacking jgarzic for making bitcoin cash.. oh, its not strange. i just explained why
 

---

before rebutting with anything that resembles defending core and thinking bitcoin core deserve full and sole ownership of "bitcoin" ask yourself this
1. isnt handing bitcoin.com to one central group (core team) anti-decentralisation
2. replace the word "bitcoin core" with U.S dollar.. "bitcoin cash" with canadian dollar. and BITCOIN with "dollar"
then take a step back and run your rebuttle argument through your mind.
(imagine having your bitcoin argument but talking about fiat dollar and  america vs canada)

P.S
try your hardest to not wear the U.S / core defensive cap when following point 2. instead wear a "bitcoin decentralised" cap



theymos/cobra and the core clan already own too much of "bitcoin"

so here we ago again
NO ONE OWNS BITCOIN. and core definetly should not. this "ver drama" is all just a ploy to hand the brand and trademark to one central team

lets make it simple, bitcoin brand is like dollar brand

america have dollar
australia have dollar
canada have dollar

in normal conversation a canadaian CAN happily say they have dollars in their pocket but it aint U.S dollar
in normal conversation a american CAN happily say they have dollars in their pocket but it aint canadian dollar

an australian forex CAN put.. "buy dollars or buy U.S dollars"
an american forex CAN put.. "buy dollars or buy A.U dollars"
a bitcoin core exchange can put buy bitcoin or buy bitcoin cash
a bitcoin cash exchange can put buy bitcoin or buy bitcoin core

EG
if a european wants dollars, so the conversation is.. "do you want U.S at ~0.8Eur/$ or A.U at ~0.6/$"
if a fiat holder wants bitcoin, so the conversation is.. "do you want core at ~$9,000k or cash ~$900"

so the conversation is there is U.S dollar AND A.U dollar
so the conversation is there is bitcoin core and bitcoin cash

there would only be fraud if Australia was selling australian dollar at the american dollar rate

there would only be fraud if bitcoin cash was selling bitcoin cash coins at the bitcoin core rate

an american can say "i got 99 dollars but a A.U dollar aint one"
an australian can say "i got 99 dollars but a U.S dollar aint one"

an american cannot say "australia is fake,fraud, non existant, a myth, a dream they dont have dollars"

once you stop being a foolish sheep protecting core as a centralist group... and instead ignore the core team and think about DECENTRALISATION and noone should own bitcoin. then you see that this social drama of lawsuits/banning/reporting. is just cencorsip to drive out consensus/decentralisation/competition.. and just promote centralisation towards the core team becoming a monarchy

so, how did it all occur you may ask..

the 2017 event was a bilateral split instigated by the core team and their partners (blockstream: samson mow... Bloq:jgarzic) to do a bilateral split where BOTH SIDES become an altcoin
yes both blockstream guys and bloq guys(the main paid devs involved in core) who are all paid by the same investors created both bitcoin core and bitcoin cash
yes we all know that the core team are point fingers at jihan and ver.. but it was actually BLOQ that made bitcoin cash.. yes thats how desparate to cause propaganda they are that they wont admit their own partner made it

anyway the bilateral fork..
unlike UNILATERAL forks like clams. .

its not a
_________________core
            \_________cash
(unilateral)

or a
             _________core
_______/_________cash
(unilateral)

but was a
           __________core
______/
          \__________cash
(biilateral)

yes BOTH sides split

this whole thing would not have happened if the bilateral split did not occur and REAL consensus was used. but no.. core hated that they only had 35% of the vote and so forced a bilateral split using their partner and then tried blaming a third person.
(facepalm) at cores shadiness to try making bitcoin centralised


so. the solution is simple..
when thinking of bitcoin. think of it as the same conversation you would have travelling around the world and talking about dollar.
"is that U.S, A.U. CAD your talking about/want"

then things become simple

if anyone sent coins to the wrong address.. just get the private key from the wallet and use it on the correct wallet for the coin that got sent

as for the lawsuit.
(analogy) i doubt anyone bought a A.U dollar at a U.S rate
(analogy) i doubt anyone bought a U.S dollar at a A.U rate

i doubt anyone bought a bitcoin cash coin at a bitcoin core rate
i doubt anyone bought a bitcoin core coin at a bitcoin cash rate
so no fraud.

Bitcoin is like a media event, after the industry have spend it, it will start promoting another cryptocurrency, they will tear down attention for older coins to push for the new ones.

etc

regards

You are absolutely right on this. Is there anything special regarding bitcoin gold? Of course not and yet why does it have high place on in terms of market cap, as it is the coin in top 50 coins! It is only because of it being the fork right before bitcoin cash. Rodger Ver is doing this rich scheme with bitcoin cash, I mean if you look at his talks/interviews guys states he sold majority of his bitcoin holdings into bitcoin cash and then he tries to pump bitcoin cash, why? Because the higher price BCH has the richer the guy is because he bought in, he is using his name and good connections with people around the crypto business to get BCH registered in the world. That's why it got added to coinbase and many other places, he is playing smart for his own good. People are so dumb to see and figure out whats going on and this is the only thing why I like Rodger because he sees the opportunity and go and grab it cuz he can.

with this thread i want to point out something for the bitcoin holders, or all other decentral empty altcoins, they are just propaganda coins the industry will always seek to put a new layer of new coins over the older ones

They do this as they know they can manipulate the markets on the small coins, something which isn't possible (without large-scale manipulation) on something like bitcoin as the market cap is too big to be manipulated. But they do this on the small coins, buy large positions when the coins are worth nothing and then push it up with their media presence.

It happens in the real world, and it happens here as well.

I was one of the people who had lots of coins {BTC} at the time of this BCash fork. My plan was to keep all the FREE coins,

because the fork had some merit at the time. Bitcoin {BTC} was struggling with scaling {being spammed from all sides} so it

only made sense to keep some coins from both forks, if this could not be resolved. Since the introduction of SegWit and the

Lighting Network, I see no need or future for Bcash. {It will not be CHEAPER / FASTER ...., than Bitcoin for long.} So I sold

most of my FREE BCash.    .... In any way, there are other Alt coins with a much better future than BCash. {LiteCoin and

Ethereum will be a much better Alt coin than BCash} 

People aren't really that foolish to fall for scam after scam. BCash has been derided enough in the general cryptocurrency circles because of their unnecessary attacks on bitcoin. People who really care about decentralization and the potential of crypto understand the damage that Roger Ver's deceptions and slimy marketing tactics have caused.

The problem is that the media needs figureheads. Someone they can interview and call an expert. Most of the people who cut their teeth in the early days of bitcoin were not the narcissistic, attention-seeking types. Those true cypherpunks and libertarians love their privacy. That leaves conmen like Roger Ver or the fake Satoshi Craig Wright to peddle their nonsense for the masses. Who then go on bitcoin.com and buy BCash in the name of bitcoin.

BCash could have been a simple fork by itself but their insistence on "we are the real bitcoin" is stupid. They have a circle-jerk of people who tip each other pennies, call Roger Jesus and present the Whitepaper as some sort of bible that is sacrosanct. That is too much like 15th century church control to me. So no, thank you. I prefer sticking with people who talk in balanced, informed manner rather than those who make passionate appeals to emotions all the time.

These people have tried to damage the biggest experiment on financial freedom in history. All for what?? For their silly argument that "If the blocksize would have been increased, just imagine what the price of bitcoin would have been?". All their arguments ultimately rest on this. Of course, once you confront them, they'll change the narrative.

---

My suggestion to BCashers or it's sympathisers. Leave bitcoin the fuck alone. It is bigger than your collective egos.

Stop being part of slimy marketing tactics by repeating that "Bitcoin Cash is the nearest implementation of the whitepaper". For fuck's sake, there are a hundred more.

Stop being part of fake achievements by telling people that it is fast and cheap when it is so only because their is too much space on the chain due to low usage. Every blockchain behaves that way.

Stop playing the blame game on censorship and using the conspiracy theories on blockstream to try to prop up your investment. Use BCash all you want for it's merits but stop trying to bask in the reflected glory and damage bitcoin at the same time.

Sadly, I do believe this is a sign of things to come. Whether or not the next Bitcoin forks will gain traction or not, somebody out in the world is getting a useless coin in general. I doubt that Bitcoin Gold and all these other forks will provide anything beyond speculation, which means they are only made to make the founders richer.

but why should the market consolidate around a few coins, that doesnt make sense at all, there will be always more and more different coins comming up,

till people will hope that someone gets rid of all those cryptos illegalises them and introduces a national currency,

main issue is that those marketing the new coins will always after they sold their premine try to market and sell a new one,

like roger ver did.




regards

Roger isn't an example of anything, before Bcash altcoins kept poping up every week because people already knew that the cryptosphere could be a very profitable market when you do things right. Some of those coins had a crew behind it, a marketing team or some investors with big pockets.

But not every coin will have the same luck as Bcash as this shitcoin managed to ride the Bitcoin name to attract newcomers, very unlikely that we see another case like Bcash.

And I we're not far from reaching the point where the market is going to consolidate around a handful of coins, so cryptocurrency newcomers will be less susceptible of falling for obvious scamcoins (I hope).

Roger Ver is totally into to profit, he is willing to trade his ideals (about economic freedom) for money. Besides bitcoin.com, he also owns /r/btc and has shares in multiple block-explorers and exchanges. I remember an article which described that Roger Ver and his team influenced explorers and exchanges to list BCH as Bitcoin. The problem is that we can not stop this from happening, as Roger Ver and his team have a lot of money and therefore influence. So they can buy up community owned properties that they can use to imitate Bitcoin. In perspective, BTG was worth $350 in December and they have a pre-mine of 100,000 units, that means that they could have possibly made $35,000,000 from this project.

the industry will nevertheless constantly try to sell cheap coins for really hard produced products, lieing to everyone about their legitimacy, till they get bashed as they constantly are already begging to get regulated, or at least regulate themselves.

as soon as they try to exclude others from creating and market their own money they get issues,

and they exclude already.

there are always certain people in any industry that is related to money, who are trying to take the shortcut and fill their pockets with a lot of money in a short time. they don't represent the whole industry!
by the way creation of shitcoins is nothing new. it has been happening from early days that people realized they actually could copy the source of bitcoin!


i find it absurd that they kept of blaming bitcoin.org and core guys for manipulation and running their "agenda" but Roger Ver is doing exactly what he was blaming in his bitcoin.com and other places!