Israel Confirms It Will Tax Bitcoin as Property - page 2.

bug.lady

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Quote from: BartS on February 21, 2018, 04:41:55 PM

Quote from: bug.lady on February 21, 2018, 06:44:09 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on February 20, 2018, 06:22:48 AM

https://www.coindesk.com/israel-confirms-will-tax-bitcoin-property/

Quote

[...]The circular explains that profits from cryptocurrencies will be subject to capital gains tax at rates between twenty percent and twenty-five percent, while individuals mining or trading cryptocurrencies in connection with businesses must pay a seventeen percent value-added tax (VAT) in addition to capital gains tax.

nice. twenty-five percent and seventeen percent makes a nice forty two percent. Almost half of the money people make on bitcoin goes to the pocket of Israeli government. I have always known that the govs will regulate it eventually with the purpose of taxing it, but I have really mixed feelings about returning half of your money back.

And other governments will follow, if not now, eventually they will.

And in the middle ages the royalty was considered greedy because they taxed their subjects with 10% taxes....

This was going to happen we all knew that, but it is not such a big issue as you make it out to be, if they are going to tax bitcoin saying it is a property I have no doubt some countries will put forward laws that charge very little to no tax on bitcoin gains, when that happens then bitcoin holders will just create bank accounts on those countries and pay the small tax there, if done properly this will be completely legal and will allow you to get fiat for your bitcoin.

I am not so sure it will be legal, at least for US were I think majority of users come from. Did you know that US sued (in US courts) the Switzerland bank for not disclosing that one of their customers was an American and not surprisingly US won and (maybe more surprisingly) eventually the bank paid the fine? Of course all the banking was done in Switzerland, but still US could intervene. So it seems that US can prosecute you no matter were you do your banking. I am not sure on what Israel may or may not do.

This article is on a different but closely related story: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/04/us-switzerland-tax-dodging-sue-banks_n_948362.html

darkangel11

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Quote from: kueyen on February 21, 2018, 02:41:54 PM

It's nice that a tax was introduced (becuase it means cryptocurrencies are legal now) but 42% is really much. As such, I'm wondering whether this legislation will help because people may still try to avoid the law due to the high rate. Governments have to come up with reasonable rates, otherwise regulations will not work.

I'd prefer it to remain in the gray zone than be forced to give away half of my earnings (as a miner). Historically, Jews always knew how to make money and were seen as greedy people so it doesn't surprise me that their government is following the same path.
That's why I'm against regulations. They never bring anything good for the people. A government involvement always means that you'll get robbed while they're trying to make you feel happy, like you're doing a good thing, contributing and all.

onnz423

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Definitely an absolutely terrible idea to set the tax rate so high, obviously this will lead to more people actually attempting to evade tax than pay it, something that is quite easily done with cryptocurrencies. The logical decision is to tax it on par with other assets, or perhaps a tiny fraction more, going so far over that threshold is going to lead to extreme tax evasion. I'll be surprised if anybody actually files for taxes in Israel now with their crypto gains.

BartS

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Quote from: bug.lady on February 21, 2018, 06:44:09 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on February 20, 2018, 06:22:48 AM

https://www.coindesk.com/israel-confirms-will-tax-bitcoin-property/

Quote

[...]The circular explains that profits from cryptocurrencies will be subject to capital gains tax at rates between twenty percent and twenty-five percent, while individuals mining or trading cryptocurrencies in connection with businesses must pay a seventeen percent value-added tax (VAT) in addition to capital gains tax.

nice. twenty-five percent and seventeen percent makes a nice forty two percent. Almost half of the money people make on bitcoin goes to the pocket of Israeli government. I have always known that the govs will regulate it eventually with the purpose of taxing it, but I have really mixed feelings about returning half of your money back.

And other governments will follow, if not now, eventually they will.

And in the middle ages the royalty was considered greedy because they taxed their subjects with 10% taxes....

This was going to happen we all knew that, but it is not such a big issue as you make it out to be, if they are going to tax bitcoin saying it is a property I have no doubt some countries will put forward laws that charge very little to no tax on bitcoin gains, when that happens then bitcoin holders will just create bank accounts on those countries and pay the small tax there, if done properly this will be completely legal and will allow you to get fiat for your bitcoin.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: budi691 on February 21, 2018, 03:53:16 PM

Quote from: Vin183~ on February 21, 2018, 01:44:35 PM

It is no problem. We can pay tax to our goverment

it's normal if the rules apply in each country. I think that's fairer than having to ban it.

I agree with you better than having nothing or worse having it banned, taxing bitcoin will be better and i know people in isreal will pay...just hope these rates wont be so high to discourage cryptocurrency users from using these coins.

budi691

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Quote from: Vin183~ on February 21, 2018, 01:44:35 PM

It is no problem. We can pay tax to our goverment

it's normal if the rules apply in each country. I think that's fairer than having to ban it.

BillCoin

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The big problem here is not to pay taxes, most of the Israeli banks won't accept you as an account if you tell them that you are going to trade bitcoins.
You made money from bitcoins ===>> went to the tax offices to declare about income====>>> you get your documents signed, then you receive the transfer to your bank account and your bank account is now blocked, the bank won't take the signed documents as a valid document, and they still won't release your money.
Israel has a deep problem, same problem as USA has, the banks can't really protect from money laundering when it comes for bitcoin so they just don't accept and don't deal with bitcoins business at all.

terrific

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I have read in some other states bitcoin is considered as commodity.
And now in Israel it is considered as property, there's no problem if I live there and I'll be taxed. What's good about this news is there is assurance that the people won't be scared on investing on it.

Rozita

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Quote from: leviathon on February 21, 2018, 03:00:37 PM

So it finally started. I always thought if it would happen or not. Didn't know Bitcoin will be taxed so soon though. Now as Israel has done it, soon other countries will do it too.

It's not that easy. It will take some time to tax bitcoin. Many countries want to tax bitcoin. Israel is not the only country. But there are many challenges. It is not easy for governments to know all bitcoin holders.

leviathon

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So it finally started. I always thought if it would happen or not. Didn't know Bitcoin will be taxed so soon though. Now as Israel has done it, soon other countries will do it too.

Doge dealer

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this is just a move to retake the reign and control over the crypto currency. bitcoins as ive said before is still evolving and id expect that as it changes so will the taxation policies , this is just an initial move to retake control and to try and limit its impact on its economy, its this high because with that percentage they can try to nullify its impact on their economy.

kueyen

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Quote from: bug.lady on February 21, 2018, 06:44:09 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on February 20, 2018, 06:22:48 AM

https://www.coindesk.com/israel-confirms-will-tax-bitcoin-property/

Quote

[...]The circular explains that profits from cryptocurrencies will be subject to capital gains tax at rates between twenty percent and twenty-five percent, while individuals mining or trading cryptocurrencies in connection with businesses must pay a seventeen percent value-added tax (VAT) in addition to capital gains tax.

nice. twenty-five percent and seventeen percent makes a nice forty two percent. Almost half of the money people make on bitcoin goes to the pocket of Israeli government. I have always known that the govs will regulate it eventually with the purpose of taxing it, but I have really mixed feelings about returning half of your money back.

And other governments will follow, if not now, eventually they will.

And in the middle ages the royalty was considered greedy because they taxed their subjects with 10% taxes....

It's nice that a tax was introduced (becuase it means cryptocurrencies are legal now) but 42% is really much. As such, I'm wondering whether this legislation will help because people may still try to avoid the law due to the high rate. Governments have to come up with reasonable rates, otherwise regulations will not work.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: alyssa85 on February 20, 2018, 06:22:48 AM

https://www.coindesk.com/israel-confirms-will-tax-bitcoin-property/

Quote

Israel's government confirmed Monday that it would treat bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as a kind of property for tax purposes.

The notice confirms past indications that the Tax Authority will regard cryptocurrencies as "a property, not a currency", making it therefore taxable as such. The Authority's position was first detailed in a draft circular issued in January of this year.

The circular explains that profits from cryptocurrencies will be subject to capital gains tax at rates between twenty percent and twenty-five percent, while individuals mining or trading cryptocurrencies in connection with businesses must pay a seventeen percent value-added tax (VAT) in addition to capital gains tax.

Eventually, its noteworthy to mention that they are coming out with a position on what they want to do with crypto currency and I think taking a good look at this leave some grey areas left because they are making it sound as if they are doing crypto enthusiasts a favor by taxing them. What is here can be regarded as punishment. I am still comfortable with the capital gains tax which is on the high side but something affordable since its going to be from profit.

But this "while individuals mining or trading cryptocurrencies in connection with businesses must pay a seventeen percent value-added tax (VAT) in addition to capital gains tax." is the most ridiculous law I have ever seen to pay a cumulative of 42% as tax is not only high but be condemned by all well meaning stakeholders in the crypto industry in that part of the world. This would not only kill initiative, but would kill investment because when you consider the amount of risk you have to take to be involved in crypto and when that risk eventually paid off government is ready to take large chunk of it, then you stay away.

Hydrogen

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Quote

The circular explains that profits from cryptocurrencies will be subject to capital gains tax at rates between twenty percent and twenty-five percent

In the USA the higher tax rate is reserved for cases where someone buys and holds for less than 12 months.

The lower tax rate applies to cases where investors buy and hold for a period longer than 12 months.

In this way the capital gains tax can encourage HODL investing strategies which in turn have a net effect of increasing price stability and decreasing volatility. This implies that a capital gains tax applied to crypto could decrease volatility, encourage HODL and do away with the massive price fluctutations we've seen since crypto futures were introduced and bitcoin became more an instrument of speculation than its historical role of being a method of storing value via HODL.

Quote

individuals mining or trading cryptocurrencies in connection with businesses must pay a seventeen percent value-added tax (VAT) in addition to capital gains tax.

It helps to remember chinese miners probably won't have to pay this tax, which is a big part of why they're so dominant. The deregulation present in chinese markets gives them a massive advantage which deters competition on a global scale.

Vin183~

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It is no problem. We can pay tax to our goverment

bug.lady

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Quote from: alyssa85 on February 20, 2018, 06:22:48 AM

https://www.coindesk.com/israel-confirms-will-tax-bitcoin-property/

Quote

[...]The circular explains that profits from cryptocurrencies will be subject to capital gains tax at rates between twenty percent and twenty-five percent, while individuals mining or trading cryptocurrencies in connection with businesses must pay a seventeen percent value-added tax (VAT) in addition to capital gains tax.

nice. twenty-five percent and seventeen percent makes a nice forty two percent. Almost half of the money people make on bitcoin goes to the pocket of Israeli government. I have always known that the govs will regulate it eventually with the purpose of taxing it, but I have really mixed feelings about returning half of your money back.

And other governments will follow, if not now, eventually they will.

And in the middle ages the royalty was considered greedy because they taxed their subjects with 10% taxes....

Miner228

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After several years of uncertainty, the Israel Tax Service published a document (the original in Hebrew) that defines the status of the crypto currency and the taxation regime applied to them.

alyssa85

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https://www.coindesk.com/israel-confirms-will-tax-bitcoin-property/

Quote

Israel's government confirmed Monday that it would treat bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as a kind of property for tax purposes.

The notice confirms past indications that the Tax Authority will regard cryptocurrencies as "a property, not a currency", making it therefore taxable as such. The Authority's position was first detailed in a draft circular issued in January of this year.

The circular explains that profits from cryptocurrencies will be subject to capital gains tax at rates between twenty percent and twenty-five percent, while individuals mining or trading cryptocurrencies in connection with businesses must pay a seventeen percent value-added tax (VAT) in addition to capital gains tax.

Topic: Israel Confirms It Will Tax Bitcoin as Property - page 2. (Read 246 times)