Issue with flag system (Please FIX) | Bitcointalksearch.org

ChuckBuck

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on June 11, 2020, 08:21:21 AM

I answered your question 3 times... It seems you signature guys just like to try get as many large post's in as possible..

Without reading my reply..

Have you read and understood my question yet Huh

I mean, he has been away from this forum for a very long time. Because he no longer works on this forum, I don't see the effect of tagging his account. That's what I thought Wink

But, I just saw the last activity on his topic. Even though he didn't work on this forum, the topic is still active, I can understand that many others can still be deceived by that topic. Now I understand why you want to flag a dead account Cheesy

It's not about the signature or anything else, I just want to make clarify the point

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Quote from: ChuckBuck on June 11, 2020, 05:02:28 AM

What I see here is that the MagicByt3 is too stubborn and insists it is a issue that needs fixing Roll Eyes

In fact, if it is fixed the way he suggested, it would create a real hole in the flag system. If the flag can be created easily by a self-moderated topic, the evidence within it may be distorted, one-way editing. Someone created a flag for you with a self-moderated topic, you appealed there, and they deleted your post. After all, your opinion is not considered and you will be unjust. What do you think about it? I also don't see any difficulty when creating a new thread to associate with a flag.

Moreover, you have not answered the question, why do you want to create a flag on the dead account (more than 3 years with main account and 2 years with alt account)? Huh

I answered your question 3 times... It seems you signature guys just like to try get as many large post's in as possible..

Without reading my reply..

theymos

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You're supposed to use the link in the flag to link to a topic where the flag is explained in detail and people can discuss it, not to the topic where the person was scamming. For discussing the flag, selfmod or locked topics would not be ideal. If a topic doesn't already exist about a scam, create it yourself before creating the flag.

ChuckBuck

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What I see here is that the MagicByt3 is too stubborn and insists it is a issue that needs fixing Roll Eyes

In fact, if it is fixed the way he suggested, it would create a real hole in the flag system. If the flag can be created easily by a self-moderated topic, the evidence within it may be distorted, one-way editing. Someone created a flag for you with a self-moderated topic, you appealed there, and they deleted your post. After all, your opinion is not considered and you will be unjust. What do you think about it? I also don't see any difficulty when creating a new thread to associate with a flag.

Moreover, you have not answered the question, why do you want to create a flag on the dead account (more than 3 years with main account and 2 years with alt account)? Huh

bL4nkcode

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on June 10, 2020, 04:28:32 PM

But topic or posts can be deleted and in that case you loose all the evidence in the flag. Just take for example your last flag
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=1780

That's why you need to change your habit of creating flags with topic of the OP, you should at least make a screenshot or archive the OP as your proof and create your own thread as the reference of the flag.

^^Above reply explains it all

suchmoon

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on June 10, 2020, 04:28:32 PM

A lot of the topics I flag are for users posting stolen credit cards for sale or bank transfers the topics end up being deleted by the mods as I report them as fraud as a service so a lot of them end up with missing topics.

I don't see the point in opening a separate topic for these as they are against the forum TOS and the flags are to alert users so most of them do not require a whole separate posts to be created.

You're contradicting yourself. That's exactly the reason to create your own topic for a flag. If the perp's topic is deleted your flag becomes invalid.

Self-moderated and locked threads can't be used for flags by design. There should be an open topic available for discussing the flag.

Edit: for type 1 flags of the same reason (e.g. "Stolen credit cards") you can create a single topic and use it as a reference for multiple flags. List any additional info (archive links etc) in the OP. For example:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/stake-flags-for-ponzi-schemes-here-5157698

bob123

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on June 10, 2020, 04:28:32 PM

I don't see the point in opening a separate topic for these as they are against the forum TOS and the flags are to alert users so most of them do not require a whole separate posts to be created.

The reasoning behind that is that other people can confirm your claim and therefore support the flag.
It also acts as proof for the flag.

Imagine someone seeing another scam offered by the flagged person. They will likely check the flag and see that the referenced topic doesn't exist anymore.
There is no way for them to verify that this flag actually indeed is accurate.

Creating a new thread as a reference containing all relevant details and proof is a proper way of doing this.

PrimeNumber7

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Create a new thread with the relevant evidence. Don’t make it self moderated.

You cannot open a flag against anyone using a self moderated thread. This is to ensure the accused is able to respond.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Quote from: Rikafip on June 10, 2020, 04:24:49 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on June 10, 2020, 04:15:13 PM

You cannot flag a topic that is self mod that's the issue.

But topic or posts can be deleted and in that case you loose all the evidence in the flag. Just take for example your last flag
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=1780

When I want to check the topic where it's explained why that user is scammer, topic is missing, it has been deleted it seems. So how can I support the flag if i don't have some evidence? I see that you made 23 flags so far, I hope you haven' t made all of them the same way.

A lot of the topics I flag are for users posting stolen credit cards for sale or bank transfers the topics end up being deleted by the mods as I report them as fraud as a service so a lot of them end up with missing topics.

I don't see the point in opening a separate topic for these as they are against the forum TOS and the flags are to alert users so most of them do not require a whole separate posts to be created.

Rikafip

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on June 10, 2020, 04:15:13 PM

You cannot flag a topic that is self mod that's the issue.

But topic or posts can be deleted and in that case you loose all the evidence in the flag. Just take for example your last flag
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=1780

Luckily tvplus006 made the flag as well, and he used the link of the topic he created
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=913

When I want to check the topic where it's explained why that user is scammer, topic is missing, it has been deleted it seems. So how can I support the flag if i don't have some evidence? I see that you made 23 flags so far, I hope you haven' t made all of them the same way.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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I made it clear why I needed to add a flag this pool is stealing hashpower and block rewards.
A quick 2 sec read over the commented will show people asking where there reward went well it went directly to the pool OP..

And there seems to be no way to quickly set the flag without opening a new topic but I think your missing the point..

at this point there is no reason to open a new topic as the user has not logged in for a long time but if I flag the user maybe some new miners may spot it and not mine there and lose there blocks.

You cannot flag a topic that is self mod that's the issue.

rhomelmabini

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Quote from: ChuckBuck on June 10, 2020, 04:00:23 PM

No no

we shouldn't try, I see a note that the flag can't be deleted after it's created, meaning it will be there, we shouldn't try it on an account.
Edit again: And he's been inactive for a long time, why do you need to create a flag on a dead account, MagicByt3?

I don't know his reason but I guess being active by the topic created by the user.

Quote from: Rikafip on June 10, 2020, 04:00:36 PM

Yeah I get it now. I was a bit confused with the his first post, didn't really get what was the issue right from the beginning.
I somehow thought that everyone is creating topic first, before flagging someone, (or using already existing topic created by someone else with proof) as that's what I am doing so I assumed op is doing the same.

Well, as the trust flag notice you should have to link a clear specific topic to create a flag. But my bad as well as to the OP that it shouldn't be a self mod topic in the first place, see for the images MagicByt3 posted and we can get a clearer view of it. It isn't a bug.

This one:

Quote

You must link to a topic documenting your specific concerns. Someone visiting your topic should get a clear idea of what this flag is about. The topic must not be self-moderated. If you flag many users, you can create a single flag-explanations topic.

Upgrade00

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As mentioned one should not create a flag linking to a post of the alleged scammer as proof, It can be edited and the evidence lost.
You should create a new topic containing the reason(s) for the flag, (you can archive the post from the alleged scammer and include it) other members would go through the evidence and choose to support or oppose the flag.
I would assume that not being able to use a self-moderated topic will not be a bug, but to prevent users censoring any arguments against them. One would not be able to defend themselves in a self-moderated thread as their replies can be deleted by the OP, and other users cannot reach an unbiased conclusion.

Local rules should not apply in cases of scam accusation.

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on June 10, 2020, 04:05:20 PM

I'm sure there are many abusing this now and it means that I am unable to flag the user's topic for scamming users.

Create a new thread, archive the self-moderated topic of the user and include it as evidence, link that to your flag, if you get more support than opposition, the warning banner would be displayed above the user's post, self-moderated or not.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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The flag system asks for the topic link by default you can't just flag without it so if the scammer just makes his topic self mod you cannot add it to the flag system which is a major flaw in the system.

I'm sure there are many abusing this now and it means that I am unable to flag the user's topic for scamming users.

I hope the admin will look at this and change the flag system so this users topic and any self-mod topic can be added as people are losing a lot of money there and there is no way to flag it to warn new miners.

I hope my screenshots prove what I am saying.

Rikafip

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Quote from: rhomelmabini on June 10, 2020, 03:52:46 PM

Quote from: Rikafip on June 10, 2020, 03:44:45 PM

But why would you use topic link as proof? You should create separate topic explaining why you think someone is scammer. Or eventually you can archive topic and then use that link for flag.

That's what I suggest to him, to create a flag you have to create a new topic. He presented here a new scenario that he wants to add a flag using the self mod topic of one particular user but it hasn't created because it is self mod. If he created a separate self mod topic to think someone was a scammer that will not work at all since self mod topic wasn't allowed to be linked to the flag. I hope you do get my point here as well as him.

Yeah I get it now. I was a bit confused with the his first post, didn't really get what was the issue right from the beginning.
I somehow thought that everyone is creating topic first, before flagging someone, (or using already existing topic created by someone else with proof) as that's what I am doing so I assumed op is doing the same.

ChuckBuck

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Quote from: rhomelmabini on June 10, 2020, 03:52:46 PM

I did but haven't created a flag yet on a self moderated topic. I think to answer this is create a self mod topic and test it if it can be linked to the flag which I doubt will work.

No no

we shouldn't try, I see a note that the flag can't be deleted after it's created, meaning it will be there, we shouldn't try it on an account.
Edit again: And he's been inactive for a long time, why do you need to create a flag on a dead account, MagicByt3?

rhomelmabini

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Quote from: Rikafip on June 10, 2020, 03:44:45 PM

But why would you use topic link as proof? You should create separate topic explaining why you think someone is scammer. Or eventually you can archive topic and then use that link for flag.

That's what I suggest to him, to create a flag you have to create a new topic. He presented here a new scenario that he wants to add a flag using the self mod topic of one particular user but it hasn't created because it is self mod. If he created a separate self mod topic to think someone was a scammer that will not work at all since self mod topic wasn't allowed to be linked to the flag. I hope you do get my point here as well as him.

Quote from: ChuckBuck on June 10, 2020, 03:49:12 PM

Has anyone tried creating flags through a normal topic?

I did but haven't created a flag yet on a self moderated topic. I think to answer this is to create a self mod topic to be linked on the flag and test it if it will work.

ChuckBuck

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Quote from: rhomelmabini on June 10, 2020, 03:30:12 PM

Quote from: theymos on June 11, 2019, 10:13:36 PM

You can create a flag using a link on a person's trust page.

I think it's not really an error, by this description of theymos, it means that the flag should be created that way, right? Has anyone tried creating flags through a normal topic? Why do you create a flag with a link to his topic? It doesn't seem to be the way theymos's flag system works. I see people send negative trust to account first, then create flags, I think the problem is there Cheesy

Quote from: Rikafip on June 10, 2020, 03:44:45 PM

Or eventually you can archive topic and then use that link for flag.

I think Rikafip's suggestion is good to try Cheesy

But by looking at the trusted feedback, OP have sent him a lot of negative feedback from before Roll Eyes

Negative feedback also stated that the account was hacked, another factor to create the flag

Rikafip

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Quote from: rhomelmabini on June 10, 2020, 03:41:48 PM

Quote from: Rikafip on June 10, 2020, 03:38:05 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on June 10, 2020, 03:30:23 PM

You can't create it against the person who started the topic.

I attempted to add a flag to the user who started the topic and it said I could not do this on self-mod topics.

Hm, I created flags against OP of self-moderated topics before, here is one recent example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2809954

And here is the self-moderated topic
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54487871

I can't see a self mod topic linked on that flag.

But why would you use topic link as proof since OP can delete evidence as it's self moderated topic? You should create separate topic explaining why you think someone is scammer and then use that link for flag creation.

I don't know, but for me it looks like system is working as intended.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Below is screens showing that it's impossible to flag this user with there topic link so the system has a flaw.

rhomelmabini

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Quote from: Rikafip on June 10, 2020, 03:38:05 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on June 10, 2020, 03:30:23 PM

You can't create it against the person who started the topic.

I attempted to add a flag to the user who started the topic and it said I could not do this on self-mod topics.

Hm, I created flags against OP of self-moderated topics before, here is one recent example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2809954

And here is the self-moderated topic
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54487871

I can't see a self mod topic linked on that flag. What he really meant is the link to the flag not that if one user has created a self mod topic before will not work it against him, that's not the case he presented here.

Rikafip

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on June 10, 2020, 03:30:23 PM

You can't create it against the person who started the topic.

I attempted to add a flag to the user who started the topic and it said I could not do this on self-mod topics.

Hm, I created flags against OP of self-moderated topics before, here is one recent example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2809954

And here is the self-moderated topic
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54487871

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Quote from: rhomelmabini on June 10, 2020, 03:30:12 PM

I think to cater that is you may post a scam accusation first on the said account then link that to flag him.

Quote from: theymos on June 11, 2019, 10:13:36 PM

You can create a flag using a link on a person's trust page.

I think that's a good find on you because if you have created a self mod accusation thread about him and link that to flag the account that will not still effect. I think you found a good bug, I don't know if this has been found already on the trust flag thread of theymos but I guess it was the first time I heard it. By the way, the trust flag system will celebrate its first anniversary by tomorrow.

Thank you I would agree this is a bug there should be no reason you cannot flag a user just because they have started the topic with self-mod.

I hope theymos can fix this to include topics that are self-mod if you can't flag them scammers will just abuse that by starting the topic with that option enabled and it means no one can issue them with a flag.

I also attempted via the users trust link and it also popped up the you cannot do this error.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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You can't create it against the person who started the topic.

I attempted to add a flag to the user who started the topic and it said I could not do this on self-mod topics.

rhomelmabini

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I think to cater that is you may post a scam accusation first on the said account then link that to flag him.

Quote from: theymos on June 11, 2019, 10:13:36 PM

You can create a flag using a link on a person's trust page.

I think that's a good find on you because if you have created a self mod accusation thread about him and link that to flag the account that will not still effect. I think you found a good bug, I don't know if this has been found already on the trust flag thread of theymos but I guess it was the first time I heard it. By the way, the trust flag system will celebrate its first anniversary by tomorrow.

Quote from: Rikafip on June 10, 2020, 03:20:58 PM

You don't flag topic, you put flag on user that created that topic. I don't see a reason why you can't create flag against OP.

I think what he meant is the link to be linked on the flag.

Edit: By the way, @MagicByt3 don't double post, I see it below my post. Edit the first reply instead of creating another reply.

Rikafip

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You don't flag topic, you put flag on user that created that topic. I don't see a reason why you can't create flag against OP.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Hey everyone.

Just wanted to point out the flag system will not work on topics that are self mod.

This pool

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/segwit-ltctbdiceorg-05-fee-solo-mm-ltcdge-pool-3k-ltc7k-dge-blks-solved-1290219

is scamming it's users of LTC and DOGE blocks it's been stealing the block rewards we have been trying to warn user about this but as the topic is self mod there is no way to add a flag on the user.

Please fix the flag system to work on self mod topics or scammers will just start creating them to avoid being flagged by the system.

Topic: Issue with flag system (Please FIX) (Read 634 times)