Topic: it is Core, not Bitman blocking segwit - page 5. (Read 5420 times)

Wauw, so many people tried explaining all kind off things but Jonald keeps putting his fingers in his ears..

Is he really not open to others opinion? his vision seems to be the only one and nothing else

It doesn't change much besides seeing the malicious incentives for blocking protocol upgrades. Therefore, you as a rational (assumption) individual along with other rational individuals would condemn their behavior. This should lead to miners switching pools and the economy making a stronger push towards other methods of upgrading (as mentioned, UASF). Regardless of whether you support Core, BU, SW, EC, or something else, you should never condone what Antpool was/is doing.

You didn't answer my question at all... I'll restate it another way: Regardless of whether you think its related, or what they support, or whether anything was deflected,
how would anything change in the scaling debate even if they did admit they were using asicboost?

Obviously it is very much related. Segwit would prevent them from using it covertly, which is what they have been doing (even though they are denying it).

There is nothing indicating that they really support/want "SW + 2MB". This was just used as a deflecting statement due the recent outing.

Segwit is the short term solution. Nothing is indicating that it would be inadequate. Please do not tell me that you'd be willing to accept a coin where mr. Jihan (and/or his partners) control the direction in which the coin is going. It seems that UASF is the only way to break out of the ASICBoost covert abuse & SW blocking by Jihan. What ever happened to the Segwit + EC implementation?

Even if they are using it, I don't see how this is relevant to the scaling debate.  Let's say in a hypothetical scenario, they say "ok you caught us, we've
been using it.  But we have the patent and its our right, we still support segwit+2mb or extension block"... so core devs can block asicboost, dont block it,
it doesnt matter... we're no closer to a solution.   don't tell me you think the rest of the miners are going to suddenly love and support SF segwit in that case?
 

It must be nice drinking that kool-aid, or should I say receiving that fat check mister jonald? This statement by Bitmain is completely nonsensical, in a way that they are trying to distract you from the truth.

---

ASICBoost is being used by Antpool: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/63yo27/some_circumstantial_evidence_supporting_the_claim/dfy5o65/

Then let's implement the anti asicboost bip and then see what changes it brings in the community,
If it is a "distraction", it won't change anything and we will only loose a few weeks. Otherwise it might bring consensus all at once on something.

Do not misunderstand me i think we should have bigger block, yet this "distraction" looks like a real threat to me.

Who wouldn't support 2mb/segwit except people that say "cores roadmap is the only one"

stop trolling.  asicboost is the distraction away from scaling debate and meaningful proposals like extension blocks.

By everyone you mean Chinese miners? if hard fork with 95% consensus it's fine if soft fork with 75% consensus it's fine but changing protocol as soon as you reach 51%+ hash power it's not fine. instead of dying from the shame of mining with a significant advantage over others now you guys are distracting all the attentions away from asicboost?

Yes, to his credit Greg already created a BIP for that.

Isn't the patent a big problem?
This looks like a failure scenario for bitcoin that i never envisioned before.
A few years ago, the classic newbe question was " what if minning function was hacked?" or "omg quantum computer"
and the classic answer was that it cannot be hacked, any efficiency gain would spread to minner or a consensus people will occur because otherwise btc die..

But patent changes that.
If a proprietary code afford a bonus in mining efficiency then a manufacturer can have a monopole on asic production, or a miner can out-price all the other miners ....

I am not an expert here but i belive that something should be done to prevent this asicboost patent from working asap. It should not include anything else. And maybe after that the community will be more united...

This is a very surprising turn of events and this kind of move by bitmain was a good move and will place the core on the edge. We dont know how the core will answer to this kind of movement but I guess they will not give a reply and continue to proceed on their original plan.  Well let us just hope that everything will turn out well and that both groups will agree to something for the sake of bitcoin and the community.

Why does this always bring controversy among all people? Is segwit really necessary for bitcoin for people to target it? I feel bored when this is constantly being debated. If segwit is really needed, why do not people still choose it? Why is it not accepted by everyone? and why Bitcoin still thrive without it? I like bitcoin as present, strong and agile. We do not need something new just to make more losses, BU is an example.

Maybe you should change your name to This is a shill thread.

It is all you seem to say. 

Does that make you sad? 


 

Now you're getting it. 

 

This is the same kind of idiotic argument I keep seeing around here.

The problem with your story is that you simply don't know what Jihan knew, and it was Greg who broke the HK agreement, not Jihan.

I know you tried your best to pretend to be logical, but in the end you just failed the simple common sense test. This is what happens when you have to make something sound 10 times more complex than it actually is.


You're just trying to misdirect people without technical background here, the key to ASICBoost is the rearrangement of tx in a block, SegWit makes it costly to rearrange tx, so does Ext Block.

Granted there was still a little loop hole remaining in the tx in the canonical block, but it's so easy to fix, after Greg's crying, the Ext Block devs just eliminated the entire ASICBoost issue by adding 2 words in the Ext Block spec.

Just add a little extra crap to the merkle root calculation step, and ASICBoost instantly becomes a total non-issue, that is how small an issue this is, this is how weak your speculation is.


And yours is a year late. The ASICBoost issue is over 2 years old, Core/Blockstream already cried about it a year ago, nobody gave a fuck. Stop pretending ASICBoost is some newly discovered game changing trick only Bitmain knew about until today.

30 Apr 2016 Luke Parker: AsicBoost claims 20% efficiency improvement in Bitcoin mining
13 May 2016 - ‏@olivierjanss: Note to miners: We, the core devs, discovered a patented optimization in your ASIC. We will make it obsolete in the next update.


So go ahead and gather older data then, you're the accuser here, the burden of proof is on you, so back up your accusations with facts instead of pure speculations, prophecies and red herrings.

That fact was for the idiots who keep regurgitating the 'AntPool is using ASICBoost to mine empty blocks' bullshit script.

Blockstream already spent a year digging and got nothing solid on Bitmain. All Blockstream got is 'ASICBoost maybe used in the future', but it's obvious Bitmain/AntPool will be instantly caught if they actually use ASICBoost in any meaningful way that affect results.


This is hilarious, all I did was post facts, and all you did was make speculations and then justify them by acting like some cult prophet talking bullshit prophecies  (read: Charles Manson/Heaven's Gate).

ASICBoost is an old issue, Greg is using it again as a distraction, get that through your head.

This is a shill thread.

!!!

You've basically missed the biggest news since the collapse of Mt. Gox. Maybe bigger. Rather than try to summarize it for you, just start digesting these:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-April/013996.html

https://medium.com/@WhalePanda/asicboost-the-reason-why-bitmain-blocked-segwit-901fd346ee9f

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/mining-manufacturer-blocking-segwit-benefit-asicboost/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/63qaps/a_list_of_all_the_bu_supporter_concocted/

core has a bug in its code where it cannot accept 2MB blocks

NOW its clear why they didnt honer the HK argument and get segwit activated

Did something happen today? Did I miss something? I've been busy the last few days and I feel like I'm missing some good news. The price went up a decent amount which was unexpected with all of the turmoil going on.