It is time to question Poloniex market manipulation - page 2.

tokeweed

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Quote from: bl234st on May 16, 2016, 01:10:31 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on May 16, 2016, 12:12:24 PM

Roach, is this you?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

Roach has had a bug up his ass ever since he invested in BTS and the trolls on Polo dumped on him. He whined and complained that these markets don't have enough liquidity to support margin trading. He's right, but so is the fanatic standing on the corner yelling the Apocalypse is coming. I have lines plotted from 6 months ago on Bitstamp, and its a joke how obvious BTC trades. These markets trade like the guy who plays ABC poker. Yes Roach, Polo is a turd festival, but so is everything else in this rigged world. To me, you are nothing but another mushroom farmer.

Yup.

GreenBits

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Quote from: rigel on May 16, 2016, 03:49:29 PM

I'm not an expert in trading.
is wash trading illegal on its own or is it illegal only when is used to evade taxes?

Yes, if involving securities (legally these are securities), any attempt to defraud shareholders of value is illegal (this would be considered price manipulation). There is no doubt in my mind the volume is artificial, people in this space forget a single person in the real world with money could damn near buy up an orderbook . These markets don't have very large caps compared with regulated markets that state actors participate in.

Look at the doge chart on polo. Looks like a goddamned ekg.

rigel

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I'm not an expert in trading.
is wash trading illegal on its own or is it illegal only when is used to evade taxes?

spartak_t

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Quote from: alyssa85 on May 16, 2016, 02:17:11 PM

Do they have any venture capital backing them?

I think they don't...

vlom

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Quote from: spartak_t on May 16, 2016, 12:50:19 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on May 16, 2016, 12:12:24 PM

Roach, is this you?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

These are some serious accusations...

uuups, if this is true und polo is going down then... mhh i don't know what to say.

i hope this is not true.

The Sceptical Chymist

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There are no rules about wash trades with cryptocurrency, right? I know in the U.S. you can't do wash trades with stocks (last I remember anyway).

It's crazy how very much we're still in the wild west, in the frontier land with redskins shooting arrows at us and killing our horses. Proud to be part of the virtuous side of it, not the devious side.

alyssa85

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Quote from: spartak_t on May 16, 2016, 01:38:00 PM

This subject could be very controversial, because if some exchange make an announcement about a hack, it may scare a lot of people thus leading to its failure. I can say (in some way) that I see nothing wrong If they are indeed hacked and then quietly solved the problem, without going public.

Do they have any venture capital backing them? If they do, they are safe, because that money acts like a cushion if they are hacked. I googled but I couldn't find anything.

There are several ways to manage the risk of hacking if you are an exchange. Get insurance (lots of traditional banks get bespoke insurance against hacking from the Lloyds insurance market in the City of London - I'm surprised bitcoin exchanges haven't approached the underwriters there - they do all sorts of unusual insurance and would probably take on the risk for a fee). The second way is to raise a lot of venture capital, and use that money to compensate customers and keep trading in the event of a hack. The third is to set aside reserves - but I couldn't find out anything about Poloniex doing that either.

By contrast both Coinbase and Kraken have raised a lot of venture capital. According to the following article:

http://altcointrading.weebly.com/blog/signing-up-to-a-bitcoinaltcoin-exchange-read-this-first

Coinbase raised $106 million and Kraken $5 million.

spartak_t

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r0ach,

bl234st is right for one thing. Judging by your threads and posts, you are looking like a very negative person. I'm not blaming you, I'm just pointing to the facts...

Quote from: alyssa85 on May 16, 2016, 01:25:25 PM

http://www.coindesk.com/poloniex-loses-12-3-bitcoins-latest-bitcoin-exchange-hack/

I know about that one. This subject could be very controversial, because if some exchange make an announcement about a hack, it may scare a lot of people thus leading to its failure. I can say (in some way) that I see nothing wrong If they are indeed hacked and then quietly solved the problem, without going public.

alyssa85

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Quote from: spartak_t on May 16, 2016, 12:50:19 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on May 16, 2016, 12:12:24 PM

Roach, is this you?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

These are some serious accusations...

Yeah. It is interesting. Poloniex was hacked back in 2014 and lost 12% of it's coins. See

http://www.coindesk.com/poloniex-loses-12-3-bitcoins-latest-bitcoin-exchange-hack/

But I haven't heard of any hacking since. After the original hack they raised their fees to make back the money. Fees have since gone down and they don't charge high exit fees either (which is a sign of trouble).

I can't find any information about whether they have raised any start-up capital (the reason exchanges like Coinbase and Kraken are safe is because they have a large amount of venture capital as a cushion, letting them ride out problems).

bl234st

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Quote from: r0ach on May 16, 2016, 01:19:39 PM

No Eth shills please.

Quote from: bl234st on September 17, 2015, 06:24:41 PM

Vitalik is a genius. Fact!

Yes, I am a shill! And you are a guy who trashes anything but his own interests. I know I am a joke, but you have no idea the joke is on you. Wink

r0ach

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No Eth shills please.

Quote from: bl234st on September 17, 2015, 06:24:41 PM

Vitalik is a genius. Fact!

bl234st

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Quote from: tokeweed on May 16, 2016, 12:12:24 PM

Roach, is this you?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

Roach has had a bug up his ass ever since he invested in BTS and the trolls on Polo dumped on him. He whined and complained that these markets don't have enough liquidity to support margin trading. He's right, but so is the fanatic standing on the corner yelling the Apocalypse is coming. I have lines plotted from 6 months ago on Bitstamp, and its a joke how obvious BTC trades. These markets trade like the guy who plays ABC poker. Yes Roach, Polo is a turd festival, but so is everything else in this rigged world. To me, you are nothing but another mushroom farmer.

r0ach

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Quote from: tokeweed on May 16, 2016, 12:12:24 PM

Roach, is this you?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

no

spartak_t

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Quote from: tokeweed on May 16, 2016, 12:12:24 PM

Roach, is this you?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

These are some serious accusations...

tokeweed

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Roach, is this you?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

Sark

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Its going to be alright folks, the kind of wash trading - OKCoin is soon adding ETH pairs so there is no way Polo will be able to compete in the wash trading game.

tokeweed

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Quote from: r0ach on May 16, 2016, 06:41:30 AM

My main problem with it is they're supposed to be an altcoin exchange, but now they're framing one coin as superior to all others due to a backroom deal they made with someone to allow permanent wash trading of one single asset. When you give someone non-public rates on trades that results in one coin being wash traded to 50-100x higher volume than every other coin, it makes Poloniex themselves in on the pump/manipulation.

The last thing on earth you want is to be trading assets where the exchange owner is in on the manipulation themselves. Anyone remember when Vertcoin hit something like $10? I talked to Big Vern and told him to add it to Craptsy. What did Big Vern do? He added the coin and then immediately disabled wallets so nobody could deposit shortly after, dumped at market peak, then re-enabled wallets again several hours later. He probably just dumped coins that customers themselves deposited (shorting), then buys back after the market crashes. If the exchange owner is in on any type of manipulation, traders are screwed and there is no reason to go anywhere near the coin.

Please show your proof. These are serious allegations.

Febo

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@alyssa85

because trades started at same hour, on at least 5-10 moments. for like 5-10 coins. It was one guy or a group of guys work close together, to manipulate market. Yes, they used all tools possible so knew when they must do something for best result.

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Quote from: r0ach on May 16, 2016, 12:50:01 AM

It's blatantly obvious Eth is and has been wash traded by a single entity on Poloniex for literally months now. Their fee structure is setup where someone pushing that volume would have 0.10% taker fees and 0.0% maker fees, so 0.05% if wash traded.

On a slow Eth day of 20,000 BTC volume, that would be 100 BTC per day in wash trade fees. Does anyone honestly believe the Poloniex Eth manipulators pay that much? Hell no.

Why is Poloniex doing backroom deals with market manipulators to artificially pump coins to defraud investors? It's different if some random guy like Wolong decides to pump a random shit coin, but when the exchange itself is involved in the scheme (like Bittrex has been accused of with Bobsurplus), it's pretty questionable.

Why do you assume that there is one person doing all the trades on Ether? More likely there are lots of smaller traders, who are trading on margin, which is why you see such a huge volume. Ether's volume on Kraken and other places is pretty big too.

When that Mike Hearn thing happened, lots of bitcoin traders switched to Ether - ETH got lucky in that their coin was being promoted at the same time. If the Hearn thing had happened two years earlier, the rush of money fleeing bitcoin would have gone into Doge.

If you look at the btc/usd charts and the ETH/USD charts, they are negatively correlated. This is being caused by bitcoin traders finding something new and more profitable to trade.

Febo

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I totally agree. You need to treat all costumers equally. All need to have same fee. But how we can be sure, this is true? As i stated before, they risk to much.
If your complain is that ETH fees are lower then for other coins i don see that as something bad. If they offer this to all traders.

They can also make no fee trades if they want. As long as they are for all traders and everyone know that and assume that part of volume can be fake.

Topic: It is time to question Poloniex market manipulation - page 2. (Read 4648 times)