I'm Italian. That title is not true at all! The truth is that before Christmas we made a law that indicate to banks to retain 20% of the money transfers from abroad, even from Eu countries. As far as I know this has not bee applied yet from banks and can be avoided declaring that the money is not coming from interests or capital gains.
Bitcoins were not in the mind of the people who did this law. The main goal was to avoid that capitals can return freely in Italy after having been stored in Swiss or other countries. But I'm quite confident this law will never be applied.
Topic: Italy forces consumers to BitCoin: "20% Tax On All Inbound Money Transfers" - page 2. (Read 8461 times)
February 17, 2014, 09:08:12 AM
February 17, 2014, 08:57:40 AM
aesma, that's mostly useless rhetoric bullishit. I pay every single cent of my taxes in italy (where i have a business that i'm moving away along with my ass because of the high taxation), and the same goes for my family, that has a little grocery.
My aunt provides a service (dogs and cats kennel) so people have to pay hundreds of euros once in a while, it's easy to understand how doing it undeclared would be simple.
If you have no problems with your clients, good for you !
What I'm describing happens in Tuscany, in the south it must be 10 times worse.
About 15 years ago I was asking an uncle who is wealthy why he didn't drive a Ferrari, and his answer was that it would cause an immediate tax inquiry. Today people driving such cars are literally harassed at the Italian borders (with some reason).
February 17, 2014, 08:09:17 AM
Is this reported somewhere on a "real" news site? I can not find anything searching the web for "Italy incoming bank wire 20% tax" and related terms. If this is indeed true, it would be tremendous (but not really surprising) news.
It's true. Biggest financial newspaper in italy:
http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/notizie/2014-02-13/ritenuta-automatica-bonifici-estero-064329.shtml
Thanks! Looked the newspaper up on Wikipedia, and it looks indeed trustworthy. The Google translation also is at least good enough to confirm the basic message. This is really interesting news, then!
February 17, 2014, 07:56:31 AM
So Italy recongises BTC as a legitmate currency? Or at least an asset!
no.
Italy's gov is desperately in need of money and they're charging every bank wire that comes from a foreign country. be it SEPA or not.
It's up to the receiver to prove that on those money the state hasn't to apply that income tax. by default they assume the opposite.
Sick pig, its not a simple NO.
If Italy taxes you on BTC it means that should you make a profit, you will need to pay 20% tax on the profit - 20% is Capital Gains tax in Italy (CGT). Meaning that Italy have recognised BTC as an asset (indirectly). Thus the opposite should be true, if you lose on BTC then you have a CGT loss.
So BTC in the eyes of Italy is like a house, you buy and sell, the difference being +100k, you pay 20%. If the difference is -100k, you have a tax credit for future CGT.
Basically they have legitimised any profit that occurs via BTC- making it a valid financial tool.
I say, set up offshore in Malta and pay a flat 5% non residents tax!
the new tax it's not specifically related to BTC. it applies to all incoming bank transfers. Unfortunately when you cash out btc from an exchange you've to use a bank wire.
Another risk Italy gov's is going to expose italian citizens: double taxation. As I said before is up to the recipient to prove that those money hasn't to be taxed. If he fails or just forgot to do it it could pay the taxes twice. Once when he received the money and once when he have the annual rendezvous with the tax man.
There is no Italian BTC exchange? That would solve pretty much whole problem.
February 17, 2014, 07:54:53 AM
Is this reported somewhere on a "real" news site? I can not find anything searching the web for "Italy incoming bank wire 20% tax" and related terms. If this is indeed true, it would be tremendous (but not really surprising) news.
It's true. Biggest financial newspaper in italy:
http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/notizie/2014-02-13/ritenuta-automatica-bonifici-estero-064329.shtml
aesma, that's mostly useless rhetoric bullishit. I pay every single cent of my taxes in italy (where i have a business that i'm moving away along with my ass because of the high taxation), and the same goes for my family, that has a little grocery.
February 17, 2014, 07:52:14 AM
Is this reported somewhere on a "real" news site? I can not find anything searching the web for "Italy incoming bank wire 20% tax" and related terms. If this is indeed true, it would be tremendous (but not really surprising) news.
February 17, 2014, 07:25:31 AM
My family might have fallen into the category of people that would have to justify the wires they sent to Italy, even if it would have probably been easy since it was from family to family (to support my Italian grandmother, who died last year unfortunately).
When you know Italy this is not really surprising, it's not Greece for sure, but tax avoidance is still rampant. An Italian aunt who owns a business and wants to do everything by the book just can't because half the customers don't want records, they're ready to pay more than the price including taxes ! Meaning they've got plenty of undeclared money.
When you know Italy this is not really surprising, it's not Greece for sure, but tax avoidance is still rampant. An Italian aunt who owns a business and wants to do everything by the book just can't because half the customers don't want records, they're ready to pay more than the price including taxes ! Meaning they've got plenty of undeclared money.
February 17, 2014, 07:24:28 AM
Max Keiser said at the recording of his radio show The Truth About Markets on www.resonancefm.com for broadcast on 23/2/2014 that senior US sources had told him that China and the US were hoarding bitcoin.
Ahahaaaaa. I love it.
Makes perfect sense. I'm so glad I'm not alone on this one.
So think, if China and Russia are hoarding BTC then what will the US And Europe do?
They have to find Bitcoin's twin, they have to find a diff and proven crypto to combat BTC.
And iXcoin is the only true identical clone (twin) of BTC.
That's a fact. This is great news!!!!
Thanks for posting that!!!
February 17, 2014, 07:22:22 AM
Wow such measurements are just ridiculous!
This might again be a good thing for BTC in the future.
This might again be a good thing for BTC in the future.
February 17, 2014, 07:19:57 AM
Max Keiser said at the recording of his radio show, The Truth About Markets on www.resonancefm.com for broadcast on 23/2/2014, that senior US sources had told him that China and the US were hoarding bitcoin.
February 17, 2014, 06:37:59 AM
So Italy recongises BTC as a legitmate currency? Or at least an asset!
no.
Italy's gov is desperately in need of money and they're charging every bank wire that comes from a foreign country. be it SEPA or not.
It's up to the receiver to prove that on those money the state hasn't to apply that income tax. by default they assume the opposite.
Sick pig, its not a simple NO.
If Italy taxes you on BTC it means that should you make a profit, you will need to pay 20% tax on the profit - 20% is Capital Gains tax in Italy (CGT). Meaning that Italy have recognised BTC as an asset (indirectly). Thus the opposite should be true, if you lose on BTC then you have a CGT loss.
So BTC in the eyes of Italy is like a house, you buy and sell, the difference being +100k, you pay 20%. If the difference is -100k, you have a tax credit for future CGT.
Basically they have legitimised any profit that occurs via BTC- making it a valid financial tool.
I say, set up offshore in Malta and pay a flat 5% non residents tax!
the new tax it's not specifically related to BTC. it applies to all incoming bank transfers. Unfortunately when you cash out btc from an exchange you've to use a bank wire.
Another risk Italy gov's is going to expose italian citizens: double taxation. As I said before is up to the recipient to prove that those money hasn't to be taxed. If he fails or just forgot to do it it could pay the taxes twice. Once when he received the money and once when he have the annual rendezvous with the tax man.
February 17, 2014, 06:25:04 AM
So Italy recongises BTC as a legitmate currency? Or at least an asset!
no.
Italy's gov is desperately in need of money and they're charging every bank wire that comes from a foreign country. be it SEPA or not.
It's up to the receiver to prove that on those money the state hasn't to apply that income tax. by default they assume the opposite.
[/quote
Sick pig, its not a simple NO.
If Italy taxes you on BTC it means that should you make a profit, you will need to pay 20% tax on the profit - 20% is Capital Gains tax in Italy (CGT). Meaning that Italy have recognised BTC as an asset (indirectly). Thus the opposite should be true, if you lose on BTC then you have a CGT loss.
So BTC in the eyes of Italy is like a house, you buy and sell, the difference being +100k, you pay 20%. If the difference is -100k, you have a tax credit for future CGT.
Basically they have legitimised any profit that occurs via BTC- making it a valid financial tool.
I say, set up offshore in Malta and pay a flat 5% non residents tax!
February 17, 2014, 06:13:10 AM
So Italy recongises BTC as a legitmate currency? Or at least an asset!
no.
Italy's gov is desperately in need of money and they're charging every bank wire that comes from a foreign country. be it SEPA or not.
It's up to the receiver to prove that on those money the state hasn't to apply that income tax. by default they assume the opposite.
February 17, 2014, 06:12:31 AM
Interesting - not sure I believe this but surely interesting
Believe what? It's news.
Unless you're referring to my difficult to believe theories.
That's nothing new. You'll get used to me being me.
iXcoin ready to take off. Check out the new website ready to launch if you need some proof.
http://lukeconnellau.wix.com/ixcoin-v3#!social-hub/c1zri
Good luck!
February 17, 2014, 06:02:56 AM
So Italy recongises BTC as a legitmate currency? Or at least an asset!
February 17, 2014, 05:55:26 AM
Interesting - not sure I believe this but surely interesting
February 17, 2014, 05:50:58 AM
Huge red flag.
Capital controls are coming to all Western nations before too long.
This move by Italy is designed to prop up their busted banks which were about to fail spectacularly. Notice that the 20% 'withholding' accumulates at the account of the banks and is only forwarded to Revenue annually.
US banks have also done something similar to force people into cryptos. They've greatly limited rhe amount a person or even a business can transfer out of the US. Most companies are dead without the ability to transfer money around the world.
There is no reason for this - no logical reason. So it's impossible to transfer any decent amount of money out of the US except by use of Bitcoin.
February 17, 2014, 05:40:12 AM
Huge red flag.
Capital controls are coming to all Western nations before too long.
This move by Italy is designed to prop up their busted banks which were about to fail spectacularly. Notice that the 20% 'withholding' accumulates at the account of the banks and is only forwarded to Revenue annually.
February 17, 2014, 04:33:21 AM
Yeah that's great news for bitcoin.
Hopefully will affect the price more than the Cyprus shit.
Hopefully will affect the price more than the Cyprus shit.
lol, Cyprus got BTC going, in a big way.
If I'm right and news of china and Russia secretly hoarding leak then we would see $10,000 within a few weeks (from today's $600).
That would be absolute confirmation that BTC will go global in a big way and soon after that we would see BTC have its symbol changed to the global [Zurich] symbol of XBT.
And iXcoin I predict will follow the same path and be relabeled XIC [from IXC].
Obviously my BTC theory is highly probable while the IXC theory is a much, much lower probability, but I am convinced of it so that's why I post this madness. lol.
February 17, 2014, 04:26:01 AM
Yeah that's great news for bitcoin.
Hopefully will affect the price more than the Cyprus shit.
Hopefully will affect the price more than the Cyprus shit.
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