Jakarta is in a pollution emergency, Is it caused by crypto mining? - page 2.

bitzizzix

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Quote from: acroman08 on September 08, 2023, 09:19:58 AM

Was there a study provided that crypto-mining in Indonesia is one of the leading causes of pollution in the country? I am pretty sure the only reason they thought that crypto-mining was one of the reasons why the pollution is bad in the country is because of the studies that were done on other countries.

Maybe yes, but I don't think the cause of high pollution in Jakarta is crypto mining and I didn't find that news either.
And there are several causes of increasing pollution in Jakarta and the most striking of them is the PLTU (Steam Power Plant) around Jakarta, the smoke caused by the large number of vehicles, especially motorized vehicles. And also because the dry season means there is no rain, so smoke and dust will stay in the air longer before being carried by the wind to other places.
And perhaps this kind of situation is exploited or connected by people who are not happy with ktipto, because its popularity continues to grow so that they are looking for ways to take it down.

acroman08

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Was there a study provided that crypto-mining in Indonesia is one of the leading causes of pollution in the country? I am pretty sure the only reason they thought that crypto-mining was one of the reasons why the pollution is bad in the country is because of the studies that were done on other countries.

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Quote from: avikz on September 08, 2023, 08:30:12 AM

Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

Indonesia, especially Jakarta is in a pollution emergency, Many say that this is caused by steam power plants where the fuel is coal. And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining, I debated and rejected it opinion because crypto-mining in Indonesia is not much like other countries where their air is still clean today.

So what do you though, is crypto mining become a big problem of pollution?

Lol! These are just propaganda. It will be better if you can stay out of such things. Indonesia was never much favorable towards crypto mining and if I am not wrong, they do not have much mining facilities either. So when someone say such loose words, there's some vested interest for sure!

Crypto mining surely causes pollution but that is quite less when compared to other industries and thermal power plants. Why blame crypto mining alone!

Well for sure the one posted it is a Bitcoin hater as they find negative sources that could connect to Bitcoin. I mean there's a lot of things that we could consider that might causes the pollution for example vehicles run by gas, non-eco friendly energy sources and a lot more. And also I believe that most of the crypto miner has a safe facility that could help like solar panel. Pollution is actually a big deal to most countries not only in Jakarta and I agree that there's a lot of factory that didn't meet a safety procedure and too hazardous wastes, it's like blaming someone's crime to anyone.

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Indonesian here, though I am not currently living in Jakarta, but I have been following the news and I might know more, and I can confirm that it's not related to crypto mining. It is true that mainly the pollution was caused by the the Coal Power Plant, it's proven with the shut-down of several power plant because of the 43rd ASEAN Summit, so this ASEAN Ambassador won't experience the pollution.

As far as I know, the history goes back several years ago when a scheduled blackout are still happening in Indonesia and then the government creating a 35,000 MegaWatt Program, to achieve that until now the Government has created 415 new Power Plant, some of them are Coal based, which has high pollution, and around in Jakarta, there are at least 14 Coal Power Plant in 100km radius.

So nothing related to crypto mining, or crypto.

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Jakarta is a pollution emergency but it has nothing to do with crypto mining. Although crypto mining in Indonesia is not like other countries, crypto work is possible in the online world. Pollution is usually industrial fumes explosions of radioactive materials harmful household wastes use of pesticides in agriculture etc. Air quality also worsens in the greater Jakarta area because it is affected by dry air from the east of the country use of motorized vehicles is also a major factor. According to data from the ministry of environment and forests 44% of air pollution comes from transport compared to 31% from industry.

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

Indonesia, especially Jakarta is in a pollution emergency, Many say that this is caused by steam power plants where the fuel is coal. And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining, I debated and rejected it opinion because crypto-mining in Indonesia is not much like other countries where their air is still clean today.

So what do you though, is crypto mining become a big problem of pollution?

Lol! These are just propaganda. It will be better if you can stay out of such things. Indonesia was never much favorable towards crypto mining and if I am not wrong, they do not have much mining facilities either. So when someone say such loose words, there's some vested interest for sure!

Crypto mining surely causes pollution but that is quite less when compared to other industries and thermal power plants. Why blame crypto mining alone!

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

Indonesia, especially Jakarta is in a pollution emergency, Many say that this is caused by steam power plants where the fuel is coal. And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining, I debated and rejected it opinion because crypto-mining in Indonesia is not much like other countries where their air is still clean today.

So what do you though, is crypto mining become a big problem of pollution?

I will never believe in some local media that sometimes they only seek attention and increase their existence by presenting some news that is only based on the "assumptions" of some people who are not even experts and without detailed, concrete and accountable evidentiary data.
I don't think crypto mining is the main problem that causes air pollution in Jakarta, from the media you've read they most likely don't provide accurate and complete data, right?. If you are someone who lives in Jakarta, surely you will understand that Jakarta is too crowded and there are too many private vehicles and many industries that contribute to air pollution. Carbon emissions from private vehicles and transportation, several large industries and the burning of coal as a source of electricity generation are the causes that contribute most to air pollution there.

blue Snow

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Quote from: ABCbits on September 07, 2023, 06:42:32 AM

It's probably just cryptocurrency hater. Electricity price in Indonesia[1] isn't low/attractive for miners, unless they manage to obtain recent type of Bitcoin ASIC. Besides, AFAIK there's no data which shows many miners comes from Indonesian (let alone Jakarta).

It seems so, when I research his name and find his activity on social media, in fact, the man who threw the discourse is a crypto hater. he lost hundreds of millions because invested in crypto, because he is a beginner and only follows the hype.

Quote from: LyneyMagic on September 07, 2023, 05:00:18 PM

but because of corporations' greed

It's just government politics (corporate and government), Pollution in Indonesia has existed for a long time and often occurs during the dry season like today. (smoke due to forest fires)

So why now exited?,
Because corporations and governments are actively promoting electric vehicles. They even provide subsidies for this mega project, This dry season is the right moment to sell your product (electric vehicles).

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

Indonesia, especially Jakarta is in a pollution emergency, Many say that this is caused by steam power plants where the fuel is coal. And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining, I debated and rejected it opinion because crypto-mining in Indonesia is not much like other countries where their air is still clean today.

So what do you though, is crypto mining become a big problem of pollution?

Why would they only blame it on crypto mining? Is this the only one industry running on that country?.

For sure there's a lot of factors on why pollution happens and the main cause is negligence of people towards proper disposal of their waste,factories,transportation and other more. For sure there's only few people do crypto mining and it does not create big effect to environment. Maybe those people saying things like that is ignorant on the information they reads that's why maybe they always come up with wrong conclusions.

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Quote from: LyneyMagic on September 07, 2023, 05:00:18 PM

Everytime there is cheap labor or poor country, they end like this. Not because of crypto per ce (especially since there are more and more Proof of Stake coins), but because of corporations' greed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Why bother with nature when you're making profits?

So yeah, crypto doesn't pollute - people do

I was about to say it was the people that polluted Jakarta. I wonder if there is a huge mining farm in Jakarta Indonesia since as far as I can see on the internet, the electrical cost in that place can render the mining industry in negative ROI unless the mining farm is using its own renewable energy, the mining farm is bound to bankruptcy.

LyneyMagic

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Everytime there is cheap labor or poor country, they end like this. Not because of crypto per ce (especially since there are more and more Proof of Stake coins), but because of corporations' greed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Why bother with nature when you're making profits?

So yeah, crypto doesn't pollute - people do

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

Indonesia, especially Jakarta is in a pollution emergency, Many say that this is caused by steam power plants where the fuel is coal. And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining, I debated and rejected it opinion because crypto-mining in Indonesia is not much like other countries where their air is still clean today.

So what do you though, is crypto mining become a big problem of pollution?

They are just diverting those things and make it look that crypto mining is the culprit. If those words are just been thrown out by some citizens who doesnt even know on what crypto mining is then they are just really trying out to mix things up and putting up all the blame on something which isnt really the actual cause. We know about those coal plants usage which it isnt really just solely for crypto mining but also in other usage or relevance as well which it isnt really just that right that everything could really be just simply blame out on crypto mining. Seems like they dont really like crypto existence as well? throwing up some issues without able to solidly provide those evidences that this was the main culprit.

I have seen this one
Indonesia has responded by sanctioning 11 industrial firms for failing to meet operational standards and ordered half its civil servants to work from home.
https://www.manilatimes.net/2023/09/07/world/asia-oceania/indonesia-cuts-coal-plants-output-as-pollution-spikes/1908879

So it was talking about failure on meeting that operational standards.

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

Indonesia, especially Jakarta is in a pollution emergency, Many say that this is caused by steam power plants where the fuel is coal. And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining, I debated and rejected it opinion because crypto-mining in Indonesia is not much like other countries where their air is still clean today.

So what do you though, is crypto mining become a big problem of pollution?

Lol, pollution isn't cost by one industry alone. Bitcoin mining only constitutes to small fraction of the total pollution of all industries. In fact Bitcoin mining pollution emission cannot be compared to the pollution produced by many industries. I don't think the person talking about crypto-mining is majorly caused by crypto mining because it has been debunked by many studies such as the one done by University of Cambridge just like what is stated in this article: https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/2023/bitcoin-electricity-consumption/ and is also supported by the following thread:

Cambridge University Shatters Bitcoin Energy Myths
Debunking the "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster" argument

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

Indonesia, especially Jakarta is in a pollution emergency, Many say that this is caused by steam power plants where the fuel is coal. And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining, I debated and rejected it opinion because crypto-mining in Indonesia is not much like other countries where their air is still clean today.

So what do you though, is crypto mining become a big problem of pollution?

The problem is not the method of energy consumption nor the consuming electrical device itself. The problem is very clearly that the energy is generated using coal as fuel. This is very cheap and very energy-rich. Jakarta should be investing more money into other, cleaner ways to generate electrical power. Other countries have done so effectively. But I am guessing that Jakarta might not have the financial means to do this. Perhaps too much money is landing in the pockets of politicians instead?

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

...//...

Hi Blue Snow,

First, with that nick it seems that the issue of pollution may be intrinsic to you, although that is speculation, and in a certain way it happens for your specific issue.

It cannot be hidden that mining is included in the equation, although its energy consumption is high, at least it cannot be indicated that it is the main provocative axis of electricity consumption, many of the traditional polluting entities have made the gaze be fixed in bitcoin, because it is indeed a reality, but it is also true that it offers better possibilities for the use of green energy, even most than any of the traditional polluting entities.

So, in your country like any other there is that attitude of prioritizing a claim to a new technology as the cause when it is only part of the problem, not the whole.

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining, I debated and rejected it opinion because crypto-mining in Indonesia is not much like other countries where their air is still clean today.

The attribution of bad pollution that befell the Indonesian capital to electricity cannot be fully justified even though the government, through its staff, has confirmed that the two main causes of air pollution that threaten the health of the surrounding community are motorized vehicles and electricity.
The consequences of motorized vehicles can be accepted as one of the causes, but the causes due to crypto mining should be refuted because the government is very focused on motorized vehicles that use electricity.

Logically, the number of parties using crypto mining is not that large compared to large companies that require higher electrical power every day.
I also don't mean to blame the government, but the government's efforts regarding electric vehicles have been highlighted by activists outside Indonesia regarding plans to minimize electricity saving.

Perhaps, these accusations come from those who hate bitcoin and who hate crypto mining activities.

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

Indonesia, especially Jakarta is in a pollution emergency, Many say that this is caused by steam power plants where the fuel is coal. And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining, I debated and rejected it opinion because crypto-mining in Indonesia is not much like other countries where their air is still clean today.

The one who made that allegation provided any proof for their claim which is the power produced in the plants is mostly used by crypto mining and related equipment.

Already we have threads like Cambridge University Shatters Bitcoin Energy Myths which simply means the energy used by crypto mining is not even in the considerable amount as government claims so it is just a cover-up story by the government who can't address the situation put the blame on bitcoin.

But as many of the others said bitcoin mining in Indonesia is not much so its pretty convincing that its nothing but a false claim.

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Air pollution is a big deal because it's not only uncomfortable but also harmful and even deadly to some people. Coal burning on power plants certainly seems among the main reasons, and that's something that Indonesia needs to reduce significantly. It's harmful to the environment, and it's having a direct negative impact on the well-being of citizens.
That being said, is crypto mining truly a big thing in Indonesia? I see others are also voicing their doubts about that.
In any case, the problem is with coal being the source of energy, not with crypto mining.

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining,

It's probably just cryptocurrency hater. Electricity price in Indonesia[1] isn't low/attractive for miners, unless they manage to obtain recent type of Bitcoin ASIC. Besides, AFAIK there's no data which shows many miners comes from Indonesian (let alone Jakarta).

Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

So what do you though, is crypto mining become a big problem of pollution?

No, the actual problem is how the electricity is generated.

[1] https://www.mrfixitbali.com/electrical/electricity-supply/electricity-cost-Indonesia-240.html

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 06, 2023, 11:21:55 PM

Indonesia, especially Jakarta is in a pollution emergency, Many say that this is caused by steam power plants where the fuel is coal. And, sadly I heard also on my social media local that this pollution is also caused by crypto-mining, I debated and rejected it opinion because crypto-mining in Indonesia is not much like other countries where their air is still clean today.

So what do you though, is crypto mining become a big problem of pollution?

Well, I think you already answered your own question, since 2016 I joined crypto, this is probably the first time I am reading about cryptocurrency(Bitcoin specifically) mining and Jakarta, Indonesia together, both on this forum and outside the forum.

I personally think Indonesia is not such a big market when it comes to crypto mining, they do not have as much candidates in this field to warrant them going through a pollution crises .,

So I personally think that the cause of this might be what you suggested at first which is steam power plant where the coals are tuned to fuel.

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