Just bought FBTC in my 401k. First time ever holding crypto for retirement. - page 2.

DapanasFruit

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Quote from: seoincorporation on February 08, 2024, 02:46:47 PM

With this move you are not holding crypto at all... you are holding ETFs... is important to mention that FBTC (Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Fund) is not Bitcoin, and you are not holding the keys of those coins. But as an investment is not a bad move at all. Right now the price is $39.58 and it could have a massive jump in the next months. So, good luck with your investment.

While we don't encourage people most especially member of this forum to take a plunge and invest with ETFs, we should also understand that it can be a good investment vehicle one can get into, that is in addition to actually holding the real BTC in one's secured wallet. So this is a matter of choice and maybe a matter of diversity of investments. I am just wondering: if one has already BTC and will also go into ETF...can we consider this as diversification or just the same basket with new eggs?

franky1

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Quote from: Silberman on February 09, 2024, 02:03:48 AM

Quote from: tyz on February 08, 2024, 03:02:56 PM

Quote from: seoincorporation on February 08, 2024, 02:46:47 PM

With this move you are not holding crypto at all... you are holding ETFs... is important to mention that FBTC (Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Fund) is not Bitcoin, and you are not holding the keys of those coins. But as an investment is not a bad move at all. Right now the price is $39.58 and it could have a massive jump in the next months. So, good luck with your investment.

Not sure if I got you right, but the ETFs hold real Bitcoins. Although you do not actually own the actual keys, the physical share of Bitcoin within the ETFs is in principle yours, even if you can never transfer them to your wallet.

The issue is that now you are trusting that a third party is actually holding that amount of bitcoin instead of holding that amount yourself, and we know that those third parties have a horrible record when it comes to that, so anyone that is serious about owning bitcoin needs to go through the trouble of creating a wallet, buy bitcoin and send that bitcoin to their wallet, I know that this includes additional steps but it is way better than to rely on someone else.

no you do not have ownership rights of BTC as a ETF share holder.
the sponsor (fidelity) owns the coins they are the sponsor that bought the coins and locked them up

share holders just have partial voting right of the fidelity trust that trades as a company/trust

fidelity can in their sole discretion de-peg the share:coin comparison(share dilution/spread/etc).. fidelity can go bankrupt and can "close out" its fund

the SEC made it clear. there is not "in-kind" redemption.. only "in-cash" which is based on the NAV, which can tank and de-peg should the trust have profitability issues

Silberman

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Quote from: tyz on February 08, 2024, 03:02:56 PM

Quote from: seoincorporation on February 08, 2024, 02:46:47 PM

With this move you are not holding crypto at all... you are holding ETFs... is important to mention that FBTC (Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Fund) is not Bitcoin, and you are not holding the keys of those coins. But as an investment is not a bad move at all. Right now the price is $39.58 and it could have a massive jump in the next months. So, good luck with your investment.

Not sure if I got you right, but the ETFs hold real Bitcoins. Although you do not actually own the actual keys, the physical share of Bitcoin within the ETFs is in principle yours, even if you can never transfer them to your wallet.

The issue is that now you are trusting that a third party is actually holding that amount of bitcoin instead of holding that amount yourself, and we know that those third parties have a horrible record when it comes to that, so anyone that is serious about owning bitcoin needs to go through the trouble of creating a wallet, buy bitcoin and send that bitcoin to their wallet, I know that this includes additional steps but it is way better than to rely on someone else.

OgNasty

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What made you choose Fidelity over Blackrock? I also invested in FBTC using a retirement account. The reason I decided to go with Fidelity over Blackrock was that I liked the idea Fidelity wasn’t using Coinbase for custody like everyone else. If I owned stock in Coinbase or Blackrock though I would’ve gone with their offering.

franky1

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under fidelity FBTC the OP does not own a share of BTC
he owns a share of a fidelity company share. he cannot redeem that share for actual BTC. he has no ownership rights of actual BTC

however yes using the 401k method to own shares EXPOSED to bitcoin PRICE. means he gets the exact same ups-down of the market movements, with for him the upside that he can purchase exposure amounts at a discount due to pre-tax share purchasing. and tax free selling of shares

but its still worth stating the OP does not have ownership rights over actual bitcoin.

spectre71

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I knew this thread would be full of morons saying anything to effect of "it's better to hold it yourself"

In context of a 401K, they are a wrong as d**k cancer.

Let me make this simple for those that speak slow. A 401k takes out money pre tax driving down the tax burden and maximising returns. Most companies also match employee contribution! Free money. When entering retirement and taking a draw from the 401k, the person would most likely be in a lower tax bracket.

Additionally investments within the 401k can be rebalanced without a tax event.

After tax money in the context retirement would be best in a roth ira. Why?

Here's why.

quote from google:
Although you pay taxes on the money you put into a Roth IRA, the investment earnings in the account are tax-free. Also, when you reach age 59 ½ and have had the account open for at least five years, withdrawals are tax-free
https://www.google.com/search?q=do+you+pay+taxes+on+roth+ira+gains&rlz=1C1CHZN_enUS987US987&oq=do+you+pay+taxes+on+roth+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEAAYgAQyBwgAEAAYgAQyBwgBEAAYgAQyBggCEEUYOTIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCjE5MDAzajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Or you can just pay a shit on of taxes you don't have to

pinggoki

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Quote from: ImThour on February 08, 2024, 11:44:26 AM

Sounds good, if there are more people investing in Bitcoin, However as I have always said, I would love if people could directly invest in the Bitcoin and try to own the actual stuff rather than just buying it in some form of ETFs. I understand that there might be some benefits for buying ETFs which I do not understand or know of, but I would simply purchase Bits directly. Retirement plan is a must!

They probably don't like to manage the bitcoins themselves, that's why they do ETFs, that's probably the reason and also there's the fact that it will also grow together with the company I think but it's definitely a better thing if they just go for bitcoin. I haven't thought much about retirement but I do hope that I can get there somewhere, with all the bills that I need to pay right now, I don't have the luxury to save right now.

Poker Player

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Quote from: PrivacyG on February 08, 2024, 01:17:56 PM

Quote from: ImThour on February 08, 2024, 11:44:26 AM

Sounds good, if there are more people investing in Bitcoin, However as I have always said, I would love if people could directly invest in the Bitcoin and try to own the actual stuff rather than just buying it in some form of ETFs. I understand that there might be some benefits for buying ETFs which I do not understand or know of, but I would simply purchase Bits directly. Retirement plan is a must!

Pretty much this. What is the point really. I get there is a financial benefit and profit you could earn but this removes all the fun and purpose of Bitcoin to replace it with hope for a profit. It makes no sense to me. Bitcoin offers an opportunity to financial freedom like never before. And experiencing that is the most fun part of it.

I agree with you, and that's the first thing I thought when I read the OP. However, I think this is going to become more popular than we would like. Just like people use custodial wallets and buy Bitcoin on centralized exchanges, they will buy Bitcoin in their 401k or equivalents when the option is implemented. I have a pension plan, not a 401k exactly because I don't live in the USA, and I don't have Bitcoin there. The Bitcoin I do have is managed by me with my private keys. It makes the most sense.

adaseb

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Yeah this is why these etfs long term will be very bullish. In the past it was very difficult holding Bitcoin and risky. Now you can easily log in to your 401k brokerage and you can buy the BTC etf.

This is why they have so many competing ads on google. These etfs want to get the word out because if someone invests in bitcoin today, they will most likely hold for a decade and supply will become even more scarse.

suzanne5223

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Fidelity investment company is one of the reputable investment space but with the FBTC you just bought what you bought yourself is a fungible token, not the actual Bitcoin.
Yes, the spot ETF will trigger a huge market bull but it will also with huge market manipulation which will be played by Fidelity, BlackRock, etc.
You feel safer and confident in FBTC than the BTC you hold yourself means you don't trust and believe in yourself enough.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: fenican on February 08, 2024, 11:26:14 AM

I have a feeling that the wide availability of Bitcoin ETFs will herald one of the longest and most stable bull markets for Bitcoin that we have seen to date.

Yeah, sometimes people's assumptions coincidentally comes true.

Quote

I've always invested in BTC using a private wallet but with Fidelity's offering I feel fairly safe and confident putting a portion of my 401k into it. I had to check a few boxes that I accept the risk but other than that Fidelity authorized the transaction.

When Bitcoin got developed, it was just in singular, which means Bitcoin alone, nothing like FBTC, Bitcoincash, ETF and some other annoying ones I don't want to mention. If you are investing in something else that is not just Bitcoin, then you are not investing in the real thing, but as long as you are aware of the risk and comfortable with it, there is no problem. I just prefer the real one, which is only Bitcoin. Anything other than that is either centralized or could have very unpredictable results. If it's Bitcoin, there is no way to just easily control the technology because if it were possible, then the government would have done it.

JeromeTash

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Quote from: tyz on February 08, 2024, 03:02:56 PM

Quote from: seoincorporation on February 08, 2024, 02:46:47 PM

With this move you are not holding crypto at all... you are holding ETFs... is important to mention that FBTC (Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Fund) is not Bitcoin, and you are not holding the keys of those coins. But as an investment is not a bad move at all. Right now the price is $39.58 and it could have a massive jump in the next months. So, good luck with your investment.

Not sure if I got you right, but the ETFs hold real Bitcoins. Although you do not actually own the actual keys, the physical share of Bitcoin within the ETFs is in principle yours, even if you can never transfer them to your wallet.

He has a point though, the investment platform holds both your FBTC and the underlying asset Bitcoin which you think you "bought". So, technically, you momentarily own nothing of the two until the day you liquidate the fund for your cash Grin

Maybe I am being too ignorant and these funds, but I don't see any good advantage these ETFs hold over owning Bitcoins in a personal wallet except just transferring your financial responsibility to someone else.

BenCodie

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Quote from: ImThour on February 08, 2024, 11:44:26 AM

... invest in the Bitcoin ...

"The Bitcoin"

This made me cackle. Sounds like how a grandmother would refer to Bitcoin if one were to talk about it Grin

Quote from: fenican on February 08, 2024, 11:26:14 AM

I have a feeling that the wide availability of Bitcoin ETFs will herald one of the longest and most stable bull markets for Bitcoin that we have seen to date. I've always invested in BTC using a private wallet but with Fidelity's offering I feel fairly safe and confident putting a portion of my 401k into it. I had to check a few boxes that I accept the risk but other than that Fidelity authorized the transaction.

What's the basis behind the assumption that a stable and long lasting bull market is coming? I'd be very curious to know a bit more about that comment.

People have lost their 401K's in financial products before. Please don't think that just because Fidelity have done this, it doesn't mean you'll ever be able to redeem that bitcoin etf unit for a real one down the line.

thecodebear

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That's nice. I have like $4000 in a retirement account but just sitting in cash since I quit my job a few years ago and the bank moved that money out of the investments I had chosen without asking me and just left it as cash and also I lost access to that account until I go through some sort of process with the bank. Haven't actually had access to it since then. I need to get access to that again haha. I should figure out how to do that and move it to an IRA and put it into a Bitcoin ETF.

ChiBitCTy

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So I would assume that your 401k has a brokerage account option that allows you to invest in funds that are not offered by the plan its self, correct? Otherwise I highly doubt that any 401k/403b/457b etc would have any sort of Bitcoin ETF available inside the plan itself.

I'm curious of the parameters that surround utilizing this brokerage account in connection with your 401k..are you paying a fee for it?

tyz

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Quote from: seoincorporation on February 08, 2024, 02:46:47 PM

With this move you are not holding crypto at all... you are holding ETFs... is important to mention that FBTC (Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Fund) is not Bitcoin, and you are not holding the keys of those coins. But as an investment is not a bad move at all. Right now the price is $39.58 and it could have a massive jump in the next months. So, good luck with your investment.

Not sure if I got you right, but the ETFs hold real Bitcoins. Although you do not actually own the actual keys, the physical share of Bitcoin within the ETFs is in principle yours, even if you can never transfer them to your wallet.

seoincorporation

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With this move you are not holding crypto at all... you are holding ETFs... is important to mention that FBTC (Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Fund) is not Bitcoin, and you are not holding the keys of those coins. But as an investment is not a bad move at all. Right now the price is $39.58 and it could have a massive jump in the next months. So, good luck with your investment.

bitzizzix

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Investing in ETFs compared to Bitcoin actually has disadvantages such as freedom and Bitcoin we cannot control completely. And investing in an ETF means we don't own the underlying asset directly, in this case bitcoin. This means you lose certain benefits, such as the ability to spend our bitcoins directly and some other points. As is usually done with our own Bitcoin holdings with complete freedom. Additionally, ETFs typically require higher fees due to brokerage fees, and this is obviously a bit different compared to actual Bitcoin.
And there are definitely advantages and disadvantages, and it is best to carry out thorough and detailed analysis and research before making a decision and also as a consideration.

PrivacyG

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Quote from: ImThour on February 08, 2024, 11:44:26 AM

Sounds good, if there are more people investing in Bitcoin, However as I have always said, I would love if people could directly invest in the Bitcoin and try to own the actual stuff rather than just buying it in some form of ETFs. I understand that there might be some benefits for buying ETFs which I do not understand or know of, but I would simply purchase Bits directly. Retirement plan is a must!

Pretty much this. What is the point really. I get there is a financial benefit and profit you could earn but this removes all the fun and purpose of Bitcoin to replace it with hope for a profit. It makes no sense to me. Bitcoin offers an opportunity to financial freedom like never before. And experiencing that is the most fun part of it.

Stepstowealth

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Just by being a consistent member of this forum, you can learn how bitcoin works And also understand the risk involved so that you can directly invest in Bitcoin and understand what you are getting into so that your investment in Bitcoin will be one that has a good testimony at the end. By only owning ETF's, you are not going to really enjoy the full benefits of bitcoins like the privacy and self custody, you still will have to pay maintenance fees which somehow is not different from the regular bank charges always complained about.

Topic: Just bought FBTC in my 401k. First time ever holding crypto for retirement. - page 2. (Read 371 times)