Just what is a FAIR fee to send a Bitcoin transaction? - page 3.

tuvok007

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Quote from: pooya87 on July 08, 2015, 02:36:42 AM

Quote from: tuvok007 on July 08, 2015, 02:26:16 AM

One exchange sent me 0.9 btc
with a fee of 1114 satoshi but after 40 hours still no first confirmation. What shoul i do,help?
This is the transaction
https://blockchain.info/address/1BnvHarta94JvXrY7oT272qTBEvgMdRk2S

the only thing you can do is wait...

i say you wait for at least 24 hours and then contact the exchanger that sent you that amount and ask them to include bigger fee.

but i am sure it is going to be confirmed in a couple of hours since it is medium priority, so don't worry so much.

Yes but i already wait 42 hours and still nothing,not even one confirmation

Stn

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on July 07, 2015, 03:12:33 PM

I have a checking account with $100 in it. I go to a Starbucks and charge a $6 cup of coffee. I now have $94 in my checking account and Starbucks has $6. There is no fee for either.

I believe fees took place on initial $100 check issuance. That why there is no fees on check spending.

pooya87

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Quote from: tuvok007 on July 08, 2015, 02:26:16 AM

One exchange sent me 0.9 btc
with a fee of 1114 satoshi but after 40 hours still no first confirmation. What shoul i do,help?
This is the transaction
https://blockchain.info/address/1BnvHarta94JvXrY7oT272qTBEvgMdRk2S

the only thing you can do is wait...

i say you wait for at least 24 hours and then contact the exchanger that sent you that amount and ask them to include bigger fee.

but i am sure it is going to be confirmed in a couple of hours since it is medium priority, so don't worry so much.

tuvok007

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Activity: 1358

Merit: 1001

One exchange sent me 0.9 btc
with a fee of 1114 satoshi but after 40 hours still no first confirmation. What shoul i do,help?
This is the transaction
https://blockchain.info/address/1BnvHarta94JvXrY7oT272qTBEvgMdRk2S

turvarya

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on July 07, 2015, 06:14:21 PM

Quote from: Keyser Soze on July 07, 2015, 04:53:45 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on July 07, 2015, 03:12:33 PM

I have a checking account with $100 in it. I go to a Starbucks and charge a $6 cup of coffee. I now have $94 in my checking account and Starbucks has $6. There is no fee for either. I don't care if that cup of coffee costs the bank a million fucking dollars. The customer doesn't pay and the business doesn't pay. That's all the public will see or care about. If that cup of coffee costs one penny more they will keep using their debit card. Remember I'm not talking about credit. Credit is another story and something Bitcoin isn't currently competing with on a large scale.

Edit: I'm talking about Pin Debit using qualified large merchants.

Hmm.. I wasn't aware that there are merchant service providers who have zero fees for pin based debit card transactions. According to the FRB, fees for debit card transactions averaged $0.31 in 2014.

Large merchants like Starbucks bank where the tiered pricing is negligible or free. In the case of tiered pricing a business does not pay interchange fees. Instead, a business pays qualified, mid-qualified and non-qualified rates to a processor. Smaller merchants pay larger fees. Different types of businesses pay different rates also. The point remains that consumers won't pay anything because they don't currently have to. I am such a cheap bastard that I buy gas at ARCO with only cash because they charge more for any card. I refuse to give those blood sucking leeches one penny more than I have to for gas.

Bitcoin has a strong ability to compete with the international money transfer business even if the fee was two dollars. I see no reason why it should be used for everyday purchases where the competition will win. I can pay cash for little stuff under $20. Sending $10k to another country I would want to use Bitcoin and so would anyone else.

Sorry, I am a bit tired, so I am not sure, if I really got that. So, Starbucks is paying a fee, the customer doesn't see?
If so, there is really a simple solution to that: A discount.
When the merchants saves fees, when you use Bitcoin, he can give you part of it back as a discount and if you get a discount, that is bigger than the fee you are paying for sending Bitcoin, you have enough incentive to do so.

jaberwock

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Quote from: josephno1 on July 07, 2015, 10:23:50 PM

I feel that it largely depends on the amount sent. For example for microtransactions such as .001 BTC, it would be unreasonable to charge a large fee. On the other hand with the larger transactions, it doesn't make much sense to charge a .0001BTC fee

0.001 BTC should have bigger fee requirements, because it is dust. Bitcoin was not made for such small transactions, they only clutter the network and there should be no incentive for them

pooya87

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Quote from: Argwai96 on July 07, 2015, 10:15:21 PM

So i have been doing manual fees since the network could go on stress test at anytime so before sending i make sure too look at the volume in transactions to see if i pay a little more to get confirmations faster.

nowadays sending bitcoin fast (getting confirmation faster) is becomming a competitive scene. which means if you want your transaction to go through faster and gets confirmed you have to include even more fee (more than what is the standard amount of fee) in other words you have to "bribe" miners in order to include your transaction in the block!

a part of this is because of these stupid stress tests, i find the test interesting at first and i though the results would be useful but it is getting really annoying and it is hurting bitcoin more than helping it.

josephno1

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I feel that it largely depends on the amount sent. For example for microtransactions such as .001 BTC, it would be unreasonable to charge a large fee. On the other hand with the larger transactions, it doesn't make much sense to charge a .0001BTC fee

Argwai96

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So i have been doing manual fees since the network could go on stress test at anytime so before sending i make sure too look at the volume in transactions to see if i pay a little more to get confirmations faster.

PenguinFire

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That Darn Cat

I am seen this becoming a more common question in the past 2,3 weeks. I just let my online wallet give whatever they do at their own accord. Cheesy

Brewins

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for me is the fee that miners accept. If they agree to include the transaction in a block for 0.0001 or for free, then it is the right price

bananas

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Quote from: Soros Shorts on July 07, 2015, 05:01:02 PM

Quote from: bananas on July 07, 2015, 04:58:12 PM

No fee is fair, it is not part of the original implementation and was created to prevent spam which is not working very well. An actual solution must take place to prevent spam and fees removed, all kinds of systems manage to prevent spam/DoS without charging its users any money - fees are just a lazy solution.

So when the block rewards wither down to nothing what would be the incentive for miners to continue to mine and secure the network?

The fee should be high enough to keep the miners happy and confirm our transactions.

You are trying to advance a theory problem that may only happen hundreds of years from now.
The difficulty will adjust if "industrial" miners leave because it is not worth to mine anymore, voluntary non profit mining should be enough if it happens.

QuestionAuthority

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Quote from: Keyser Soze on July 07, 2015, 04:53:45 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on July 07, 2015, 03:12:33 PM

I have a checking account with $100 in it. I go to a Starbucks and charge a $6 cup of coffee. I now have $94 in my checking account and Starbucks has $6. There is no fee for either. I don't care if that cup of coffee costs the bank a million fucking dollars. The customer doesn't pay and the business doesn't pay. That's all the public will see or care about. If that cup of coffee costs one penny more they will keep using their debit card. Remember I'm not talking about credit. Credit is another story and something Bitcoin isn't currently competing with on a large scale.

Edit: I'm talking about Pin Debit using qualified large merchants.

Hmm.. I wasn't aware that there are merchant service providers who have zero fees for pin based debit card transactions. According to the FRB, fees for debit card transactions averaged $0.31 in 2014.

Large merchants like Starbucks bank where the tiered pricing is negligible or free. In the case of tiered pricing a business does not pay interchange fees. Instead, a business pays qualified, mid-qualified and non-qualified rates to a processor. Smaller merchants pay larger fees. Different types of businesses pay different rates also. The point remains that consumers won't pay anything because they don't currently have to. I am such a cheap bastard that I buy gas at ARCO with only cash because they charge more for any card. I refuse to give those blood sucking leeches one penny more than I have to for gas.

Bitcoin has a strong ability to compete with the international money transfer business even if the fee was two dollars. I see no reason why it should be used for everyday purchases where the competition will win. I can pay cash for little stuff under $20. Sending $10k to another country I would want to use Bitcoin and so would anyone else.

d4n13

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Quote from: mallard on July 07, 2015, 01:16:20 PM

I use a fee of 0.00026809 BTC/kB. Bitcoin-Qt says it will confirm within 6 blocks, but it's usually in the next block.

Exactly... Just a reminder to the wallet makers out there... Bitcoin-Qt has a "volume bar" for fees. You can set the fee low for looooonnnggg conf times, or you can set the fee high for single block confirmations.

Just pay the fee that you want... then suffer the consequences of your decision.

To the broader point (perhaps) of "What fees should wallet makers code?". I think the best answer is in the reference client. Make a sliding scale of fees. If someone wants to save a penny they can afford to wait another hour for the confirmation.

The crux of the issue is people running old clients. So users, update your clients, devs, reevaluate the fees on each release (as you have done so far).

Soros Shorts

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Quote from: bananas on July 07, 2015, 04:58:12 PM

No fee is fair, it is not part of the original implementation and was created to prevent spam which is not working very well. An actual solution must take place to prevent spam and fees removed, all kinds of systems manage to prevent spam/DoS without charging its users any money - fees are just a lazy solution.

So when the block rewards wither down to nothing what would be the incentive for miners to continue to mine and secure the network?

The fee should be high enough to keep the miners happy and confirm our transactions.

bananas

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 257

No fee is fair, it is not part of the original implementation and was created to prevent spam which is not working very well. An actual solution must take place to prevent spam and fees removed, all kinds of systems manage to prevent spam/DoS without charging its users any money - fees are just a lazy solution.

Cryptopher

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Keep it dense, yeah?

I think around 20 cents is pretty reasonable, maybe even more.

I mean in many cases with discounts for purchasing using Bitcoin then this cost would easily be offset.

Keyser Soze

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on July 07, 2015, 03:12:33 PM

I have a checking account with $100 in it. I go to a Starbucks and charge a $6 cup of coffee. I now have $94 in my checking account and Starbucks has $6. There is no fee for either. I don't care if that cup of coffee costs the bank a million fucking dollars. The customer doesn't pay and the business doesn't pay. That's all the public will see or care about. If that cup of coffee costs one penny more they will keep using their debit card. Remember I'm not talking about credit. Credit is another story and something Bitcoin isn't currently competing with on a large scale.

Edit: I'm talking about Pin Debit using qualified large merchants.

Hmm.. I wasn't aware that there are merchant service providers who have zero fees for pin based debit card transactions. According to the FRB, fees for debit card transactions averaged $0.31 in 2014.

philipma1957

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Quote from: BitcoinNewbie15 on July 07, 2015, 04:06:10 PM

I believe that Bitcoin's current fee per transaction is fair. But, if Bitcoin's price rises exponentially, the current transaction fee will seem like a lot for every day purchases. I personally believe 1 - 3 cents is a fair price for instant transactions.

yes and when the fee was 0.001 in 2012 coins were under 10 bucks. Then when coins jumped in price in 2013 many complained fees were too high so they lowered the fee to 0.0001 maybe in Sept 2014 IIRC.

So I am guessing if coins ever go nuts the fees will move down to 0.00005

BitcoinNewbie15

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Bitcoin isn't a bubble. It's the pin!

I believe that Bitcoin's current fee per transaction is fair. But, if Bitcoin's price rises exponentially, the current transaction fee will seem like a lot for every day purchases. I personally believe 1 - 3 cents is a fair price for instant transactions.

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