key safety strategies? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Twentyonepaylots

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Quote from: Didge316 on August 25, 2020, 06:57:31 AM

I bought some small thin metal sheets and a punch set from Amazon. Made a couple of copies of my ledger recovery phrase and then split them into 2 pieces which I keep in different locations.

That was pretty creative indeed but splitting it into two, and hiding them from different places is not ideal for me since you got a lot of chance in losing one of them or worst both of them. I'd rather do it on a single metal sheet, leave a blank character which I will memorize for my whole life so if it was found by someone else he cannot access it immediately Grin

Quote from: Didge316 on August 25, 2020, 06:57:31 AM

Having the words punched into metal makes me feel a lot safer than having them written on paper!

Safer than writing them on a paper until it gets rusty and you can barely see what you punched in there haha. I hope you did not use an ordinary metal for that, a stainless steel is preferable.

Sanugarid

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 24, 2020, 10:02:10 AM

Quote from: VanityWallets2015 on August 24, 2020, 09:28:17 AM

Although, I acknowledge the point that these seed phrases are meant to be memorized as well.

No, they aren't.

You could memorize it but it is not meant to be done that way lol

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 24, 2020, 10:02:10 AM

Quote from: VanityWallets2015 on August 24, 2020, 09:28:17 AM

The best and safest storage in your mind

No, it isn't.

Memorizing your seed phrase is probably the worst back up method you can choose. It is incredibly fragile and fallible - far more so than a paper back up - and even a minor blow to the head or fever can make you forget your back up. In fact, you don't even need that, and can simply forget it over time without any obvious cause or intervention by another party. It is susceptible to a $5 wrench attack. It makes no provision for passing your bitcoin on should you die.

I'm literally laughing at this idea why would you memorize a seed phrase when you could just write it down on a paper, I'm imagine a person who memorized his phrases being thrown by a small brick in the head forgetting all about that stuff. Besides, our mind is messing with us sometimes you may memorize the words but it jumbles by your brain. Brain is freaking tricky and messy sometimes, ask a neurosurgeon.

AB de Royse777

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 25, 2020, 11:52:20 AM

I would be careful about assuming this. If one of my friends left me a couple of words that I did not know the significance of, I'm not going to go around all their friends and family after they died and ask if anyone knows the significance of them. More likely I'll assume they were a password to something that is no longer needed now they are dead. Different if it's someone familiar with bitcoin, but with someone who has no idea what seed phrase are, your coins may end up irretrievable.

I understand your breakout and it perfectly makes sense. However, in this case, they know the significance.
They know what I do and what I deal with. They are not tech-savvy and don't have interest in real bitcoining. But they know the money in their. It's basically in the family.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: imstillthebest on August 25, 2020, 07:28:36 AM

but dividing them and hiding the other part on another storage sounds risky because you can forgot them or other people will find it out and do unwanted things with it .

Yes and no. Splitting your seed phrase and hiding it in multiple places obviously increases the risk that someone discovers one of your back ups, but if they do discover one then they only have half (or less) of your seed phrase, which is significantly better than them having it all.

You should make sure to have at least two back ups of every piece though. Having a single back up, and then only discovering it has been stolen or damaged when you need to restore from it could result in the complete loss of your coins.

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 25, 2020, 11:30:42 AM

but if something happens to me then they will surely meet and will talk about it.

I would be careful about assuming this. If one of my friends left me a couple of words that I did not know the significance of, I'm not going to go around all their friends and family after they died and ask if anyone knows the significance of them. More likely I'll assume they were a password to something that is no longer needed now they are dead. Different if it's someone familiar with bitcoin, but with someone who has no idea what seed phrase are, your coins may end up irretrievable.

AB de Royse777

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Resembles approach used by me, except I gave them not keys but two SEEDs combined be special way ( known exclusively to me) and divided into several parts using Shamir Secret Sharing Scheme. So even in the case those three groups ( to whom those parts were handed over) somehow spot each other they will not able to access my 2-of-2 multisig wallet.

Mine is just an idea of how I do it. I am pretty sure everyone has their own custom idea. Here the key was combined with Seed + Master key of the 2nd wallet.

I also have another way to store my key:
The wallet has extended seed and few words of the extended seed are in my memory and shared with one person who only knows the missing words but do not know the use of the words.

The seeds (regular and extended) are printed without the words are in my memory and sent to two people who do not have much connection with the one knows only the words but if something happens to me then they will surely meet and will talk about it. And this way the person who knows only few random words will connect that this was a part of the seed.

imstillthebest

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Quote from: Didge316 on August 25, 2020, 06:57:31 AM

I bought some small thin metal sheets and a punch set from Amazon. Made a couple of copies of my ledger recovery phrase and then split them into 2 pieces which I keep in different locations. Having the words punched into metal makes me feel a lot safer than having them written on paper!

others engrave it on solid objects but what you did is simillar to them , yours are just handy and easy to carry but dividing them and hiding the other part on another storage sounds risky because you can forgot them or other people will find it out and do unwanted things with it .

for me i dont divide my keys or phrases but i make more than one copies instead and store on differrent locations .

Didge316

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I bought some small thin metal sheets and a punch set from Amazon. Made a couple of copies of my ledger recovery phrase and then split them into 2 pieces which I keep in different locations. Having the words punched into metal makes me feel a lot safer than having them written on paper!

bearexin

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I have not heard of this CASA app before, so I just went through Google and skimmed through a few articles to understand what it’s all about, and from what I have seen, if they can really provide the services they claimed on their website, then it might be a good option.

Some people do say that paper wallet is the best, and others would say paper wallet won’t protect your funds from things like natural disaster and similar events, and this CASA you have mentioned claims to protect users from such things, and other things they have mentioned such as hacking, supply chain attacks, and other cases. But anyone that’s going for this option should know that there are fees, and their Diamond account is for $420 monthly? Huh

Congyang

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Quote from: PointHope on August 22, 2020, 09:34:11 AM

What are the best private key safety tips.

I just learned about the CASA app. But it has a monthly fee.

I recently had a scare with the ledger hardware wallet update and a windows 7 computer.
Got it sorted but made me plenty nervous.
I will go for months without checking, and generally uninstall the ledger app from my devices.

What other srategies can I consider?

private key but pay a monthly fee?
I think it's not the best, maybe you can try to choose a hardware device wallet for storage instead of having to pay for storage keys that are not strategic yet

LbtalkL

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CASA app ? I just heard it now from you, I dont' think it's reputable upon checking on playstore it has very low ratings, not recommended. About private keys I am using non custodial wallet which has only seed or recovery phrase but those are equal to our private keys. I guess next to hardware wallet, non custodial is the best option. Same as you I am hesitant to store on ledger too but with different reason, ledger is just like a Flash Drive is size, it can be misplaced somewhere if you lost the device goodbye to your coins. Unlike with private keys if you made some copies you can recover it anytime, now how should we store it? For me, I put some on flashdrive and keep it on the safe place like vault or similar and print some copies on paper. Never save your keys on a device which keeps online often.

azmirihaque

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Every one should save their all types of secret key in off line. Any online storing system is highly risky. I suggest you to write down in a secret sheet and save it to different private places. I think this is the best key safety strategy.

ChiBitCTy

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Hardware wallets are nice but like you I don't use mine all that often and I worry that something could happen to it or one day they'll be hacked. Personally I think paper wallets are the only way to go. Everything is offline and is definitely the safest way of storing bitcoin. After that, hide your keys somewhere no one would ever be able to find them, or maybe use a safety deposit box at a bank.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: VanityWallets2015 on August 24, 2020, 09:28:17 AM

Although, I acknowledge the point that these seed phrases are meant to be memorized as well.

No, they aren't.

Quote from: VanityWallets2015 on August 24, 2020, 09:28:17 AM

The best and safest storage in your mind

No, it isn't.

Memorizing your seed phrase is probably the worst back up method you can choose. It is incredibly fragile and fallible - far more so than a paper back up - and even a minor blow to the head or fever can make you forget your back up. In fact, you don't even need that, and can simply forget it over time without any obvious cause or intervention by another party. It is susceptible to a $5 wrench attack. It makes no provision for passing your bitcoin on should you die.

Quote from: Rengga Jati on August 24, 2020, 09:55:23 AM

1. Store the private key with specific code on several devices such as laptops, computers, and also mobile phones. I store it offline, not online one because it will be very risky moreover when the application is not a paid-app.

When you say you store it offline, do you mean that the multiple laptops, computers, and mobile phones you use are all permanently airgapped, never connected to WiFi or other wireless connectivity methods (e.g. Bluetooth), and are never physically connected to an internet source (e.g. ethernet)? Anything stored on a device with an internet connection is not "offline".

Rengga Jati

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I have very simple examples that I commonly do.
1. Store the private key with specific code on several devices such as laptops, computers, and also mobile phones. I store it offline, not online one because it will be very risky moreover when the application is not a paid-app.
2. Write down them on certain books, be sure that you really save the book securely. If needed, you can notice someone else about the private key, but ensure that he//she is trusted enough. It may be your wife/husband or trusted family.

And of course, never give other people who you don't believe the private keys, whatever the reasons, moreover when they have reasons to help you recover something. Never believe them.

mardaed

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This key safety is among the many struggle of crypto enthusiasts. It is important to choose storage that are surely trusted but never get too assured and comfortable about these storage because it is also better if you know it by yourself.

VanityWallets2015

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Quote from: crwth on August 24, 2020, 09:02:43 AM

In order to be sure that you have a not compromised private key you could do a couple of things like

Create your wallet in an air-gapped computer
Use Hardware wallets (that's what you used already and you are pretty much protected already with that)
Make sure that you only use a computer that isn’t infected with malicious content
Update as much as possible to prevent possible vulnerability attacks
Don’t Trust, Verify

With that, I think you are pretty safe with your keys. Don't ever lose your backup phrases and never input them to anything unless it's secure.

Exactly. It is important to have a secure physical storage for your keys.
Although, I acknowledge the point that these seed phrases are meant to be memorized as well.
The best and safest storage in your mind, just don't forget to constantly remind yourself about these.

taufik123

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 24, 2020, 04:02:03 AM

Quote from: taufik123 on August 23, 2020, 05:43:55 PM

there's nothing to fear with hardware wallet updates.

Provided you have your seed phrase backed up. There have been instances of wallets resetting themselves when being updated.

yes i am aware of that. Having a backup seed phrase is essential to avoid unexpected occurrences. I don't really know about hardware wallets, but when the firmware update fails it might be fatal too.
However, backing up the wallet's seed phrase is the most important and must be done.

crwth

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In order to be sure that you have a not compromised private key you could do a couple of things like

Create your wallet in an air-gapped computer
Use Hardware wallets (that's what you used already and you are pretty much protected already with that)
Make sure that you only use a computer that isn’t infected with malicious content
Update as much as possible to prevent possible vulnerability attacks
Don’t Trust, Verify

With that, I think you are pretty safe with your keys. Don't ever lose your backup phrases and never input them to anything unless it's secure.

witcher_sense

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Quote from: joniboini on August 23, 2020, 08:20:41 AM

What do you mean by learn your key by heart? Memorizing the seed(s)? That's not a good choice. Even if you can remember the mnemonics with some tricks, nothing guarantee that you can remember it tomorrow. Printing the copy is better as you mentioned, as long as you store it securely. Buying a wall safe is probably a good idea but I won't put it open where people can see it as if you tell people "hey, there is something valuable here".

Seed phrases are meant to be memorized especially in emergency situations. For example, if a person is trying to escape from authoritarian regime or bitcoin-unfriendly country or simply wants to transfer wealth to another country he has to memorize his seed phrase and write it down again when he successfully crossed the border. Hardware wallets, paper wallets, seed plates are all good for safe storing and holding, but it is almost impossible to transfer those across borders. All your physical backups will suddenly become irrelevant and unsafe, because you obviously can't leave them behind and can't risk transfer them since they can and will likely be confiscated by evil government.

roadrunnerjaiv2025

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I recommend having a hardware wallet instead. That's the safest of all your wallet options. That is if that's what you meant by "key safety". The thing about private key is that no one must know or have a copy of it apart from you. If it's inputted in a wallet that's owned and run by a third-party provider, access to your private key isn't exclusive to you. The third-party provider has access to it, too. Some of them are reputable though.

That said, hardware wallets aren't totally safe, so you must be careful when buying one. Some sellers will try to trick you into using a set of codes and tell you that it's supposed to be the key to your account. The seller has a copy of this key and can freely use it to steal your coins. Make sure that your hardware wallet is fully formated or free of any suspicious data. Experts advise writing down your private key on a piece of paper instead of saving it in a digital file. This way, if your computer gets infected or hacked, the hacker won't have your key.

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