Topic: Klondike heatsink sourcing - page 3. (Read 11747 times)
OK this is what I would do. So from Avalon website the dimensions of the chips are 7 mm x 7 mm so I would opt out for individual heatsinks like this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708011 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708012. The first one is 6.5mm and the latter is 10mm. They are designed to cool video car memory so I think they would be suitable for avalon chips.
questions, comments, concerns?
Interested in getting some quantity between 100 and 500. I'll get you a hard number as soon as I have one...
I am speaking with manufacturers to have heatsinks made for the Klondike board. Having heatsinks made is going to be less expensive than purchasing and modifying any current solution. I need to know who is planning on purchasing boards, what quantity, and whether or not they would want a heatsink.
Specs are:
100x100x25mm
3mm base
1mm fins
2mm spacing
6000 series aluminum
4 mounting holes drilled, located in center of each 4 chip group.
Flat base/underside
This is a one time deal. Enough heatsinks need to be purchased to cover all the boards, with a few extra. Purchasing additional heatsinks in low quantity will be prohibitively expensive. These heatsinks will not be made available to the general public. They will only be made available to those offering bulk purchasing as I cannot sell these piecemeal. I will be offering them as part of a package to those who purchase chips through me.
Group buy coordinators, Large private buyers, and Klondike resellers need to contact me ASAP.
I would also like a quote for this for 100 and 500 pieces. I already have my supplierz but want to verify what he has given me. So far good prices, but i wonder if it's possible to be even cheaper than him.Specs are:
100x100x25mm
3mm base
1mm fins
2mm spacing
6000 series aluminum
4 mounting holes drilled, located in center of each 4 chip group.
Flat base/underside
This is a one time deal. Enough heatsinks need to be purchased to cover all the boards, with a few extra. Purchasing additional heatsinks in low quantity will be prohibitively expensive. These heatsinks will not be made available to the general public. They will only be made available to those offering bulk purchasing as I cannot sell these piecemeal. I will be offering them as part of a package to those who purchase chips through me.
Group buy coordinators, Large private buyers, and Klondike resellers need to contact me ASAP.
Thanks,
Steve
bkkcoins is suggesting a heatsink of dimensions 90x80mm. You cannot cover the standoff/mounting holes or the thru holes for the PCIe connector (power).
As far as i read at alibaba.com the companies creating heatsinks often calculate in tons, so the weight... that means a smaller heatsink most probably will mean less cost too then.
Plus i didnt understand how to mount the whole unit then into a rack when the heatsink is above the mounting holes at the border. Then the unit has to be mounted together and the heatsink is holding the unit then.
bkkcoins is suggesting a heatsink of dimensions 90x80mm. You cannot cover the standoff/mounting holes or the thru holes for the PCIe connector (power).
The heatsink (1 per K16) would mount with 4 fasteners, placed in the middle of each 4 groupings of ASICs. These are not the same as the holes for the standoffs which are at each corner.
Which gives me an idea, there is no reason to concentrate the heat pads on the heatsink behind the ASICs. It might be easier to cover the entire heatsink with heat pad and draw the heat away from the entire board instead of just the regions with ASICs.
Ah, now i get it. Heat pads are the vias bkkcoins mentioned. But i believe it wouldnt help much because the vias need contact to the to be cooled unit. The pcb itself is a bad heat conductor. So i doubt that a via that is a cm beneat an asic can take away much heat. And it might be that the vias cost something?
Whats the status here? Since 2 days no new posts? Were the links to the manufacturers in china usefull(-less)?
The heatsink (1 per K16) would mount with 4 fasteners, placed in the middle of each 4 groupings of ASICs. These are not the same as the holes for the standoffs which are at each corner.
Which gives me an idea, there is no reason to concentrate the heat pads on the heatsink behind the ASICs. It might be easier to cover the entire heatsink with heat pad and draw the heat away from the entire board instead of just the regions with ASICs.
The heatsink (1 per K16) would mount with 4 fasteners, placed in the middle of each 4 groupings of ASICs. These are not the same as the holes for the standoffs which are at each corner.
Now i see what you mean... the purple dots are the holes in the picture of klondike first post. But the whole board is 10x10cm... thats 100x100mm if im not mistaken. So all 8 holes will be covered with a heatsink of 100x100mm anyway. Or if you want to use the 4 outer holes to mount the board to a case or so, then this would mean you first have to mount the board to the case, then the heatsink, so that heatsink and board arent a unit first. But that cant be because the heatsink needs cooling paste... am i have a wrong thought?
The heatsink (1 per K16) would mount with 4 fasteners, placed in the middle of each 4 groupings of ASICs. These are not the same as the holes for the standoffs which are at each corner.
I searched a bit now and saw this wholesale website that has quite a lot heatsinks for often very low prices... if we need enough parts thats probably possible. And i think if a company has a minimum of 1000 and you call them saying you only can take 500 im sure they will bite anyway.
For now i only searched for the german word of heatsink "kühlkörper" and added 100mm. Its astonishing how many companies are popping up that create such things for low.
For example this product: http://german.alibaba.com/product-gs/aluminum-heat-sinks-97-w-x60-h-100-l-mm-712256516.html
Though not very much cheaper. Or this: http://german.alibaba.com/product-gs/-font-b-100mm-b-font-1200mm-width-aluminum-extrusion-welded-led-heatsink-for-machine-power-server-electronic-computer-led-pcb-amplifier-581032609.html
The price seems very low for minimum 100mm. But a call cant be wrong.
Or try this search: http://german.alibaba.com/product-list/k%25C3%25BChlk%25C3%25B6rper_100mm/--radiator%2Bbox%2B100mm.html
You can click the companies name too in the list, there are many companies in this business it seems. You can find even more companies with taking away the 100mm.
Its probably best to check out the prices with one or more of these companies.
For now i only searched for the german word of heatsink "kühlkörper" and added 100mm. Its astonishing how many companies are popping up that create such things for low.
For example this product: http://german.alibaba.com/product-gs/aluminum-heat-sinks-97-w-x60-h-100-l-mm-712256516.html
Though not very much cheaper. Or this: http://german.alibaba.com/product-gs/-font-b-100mm-b-font-1200mm-width-aluminum-extrusion-welded-led-heatsink-for-machine-power-server-electronic-computer-led-pcb-amplifier-581032609.html
The price seems very low for minimum 100mm. But a call cant be wrong.
Or try this search: http://german.alibaba.com/product-list/k%25C3%25BChlk%25C3%25B6rper_100mm/--radiator%2Bbox%2B100mm.html
You can click the companies name too in the list, there are many companies in this business it seems. You can find even more companies with taking away the 100mm.
Its probably best to check out the prices with one or more of these companies.
Are you sure you want 1mm fins? That'll be very, very sharp. Additionally only a 3mm base isn't much heat storage at all, might want that thicker.
agreed. 1mm will also bend if there is too much rough handling during shipping/installation.
I personally would prefer either one large heatsink which covers all 16 chips; or even better, water blocks for water cooling. Am I the only person who would like to be able to over-clock these, and not have to run a massive box of fans?
interesting concept, though for first-gen waterblocks will be overkill. these boards will create less heat then most highend graphics cards, so I would imagine that in an environment with cooler temps and reasonable airflow there would be almost no need to actively cool it at stock speeds. Basic overclocking should be easily dissipated by a 100mm fan if you consider that a 400w GPU is usually handled by 2-3 60mm fans while in an enclosed space.
second-gen would be the time to consider options like liquid cooling
Probably valid points, but fans cost more electricity to run, and they're noisy. Liquid cooling probably IS overkill at this point, but it would allow more units to be stuffed into a case, would be silent, consumes less electricity.
Either way, I've got enough chips already ordered for 5 K16 boards, so whatever's decided, I'll be in for 5. Although, once these are up and mining, I'll be buying more chips, so, depending on price, I'd be willing to order 3-5 times that amount.
Are you sure you want 1mm fins? That'll be very, very sharp. Additionally only a 3mm base isn't much heat storage at all, might want that thicker.
agreed. 1mm will also bend if there is too much rough handling during shipping/installation.
I personally would prefer either one large heatsink which covers all 16 chips; or even better, water blocks for water cooling. Am I the only person who would like to be able to over-clock these, and not have to run a massive box of fans?
interesting concept, though for first-gen waterblocks will be overkill. these boards will create less heat then most highend graphics cards, so I would imagine that in an environment with cooler temps and reasonable airflow there would be almost no need to actively cool it at stock speeds. Basic overclocking should be easily dissipated by a 100mm fan if you consider that a 400w GPU is usually handled by 2-3 60mm fans while in an enclosed space.
second-gen would be the time to consider options like liquid cooling
Ok, looks like i made an error... the K16 board is 10x10cm... the cooler is 100x100mm, thats the same dimension... so only one heatsink per K16 is needed... but im wondering too now... 16 chips match on 10x10cm? And when the heatsink is the same size then the 4 holes in the edges not only have to hold the heatsink but the whole pcb too. For example mounted to a rack or something.
I have outlined the type of heatsink. Please see the OP.
Sorry, i overread the setting. So its 4 heatsinks for each K16 board.
I now found what i referred to with the holes under the chips... Its this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2179575
If i understand it correctly it means the holes are filled with heat dissipating stuff so that the chip can connect to the heatsink. The heatsink doesnt have to reach to the chip, its already done in the pcb.
I dont think that asking for prices for different quantities is bad business behaviour. Often they will give a list with quantity to create and the attached price to it. I thought that you maybe have such list.
Forgive my noobness but whats the problem with such heatsink for example: http://uk.farnell.com/h-s-marston/890sp-01000-a-100/heat-sink-100mm/dp/4105977
Its the first result searching "heatsink 100mm". Wouldnt it be possible to drill in the needed holes to attach it at the pcb? I mean the pcb on the other side is flat, theres no parts built in.
The price for these arent low though... i only wanted to ask why such things wont work.
Sorry, i overread the setting. So its 4 heatsinks for each K16 board.
I now found what i referred to with the holes under the chips... Its this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2179575
If i understand it correctly it means the holes are filled with heat dissipating stuff so that the chip can connect to the heatsink. The heatsink doesnt have to reach to the chip, its already done in the pcb.
I dont think that asking for prices for different quantities is bad business behaviour. Often they will give a list with quantity to create and the attached price to it. I thought that you maybe have such list.
Forgive my noobness but whats the problem with such heatsink for example: http://uk.farnell.com/h-s-marston/890sp-01000-a-100/heat-sink-100mm/dp/4105977
Its the first result searching "heatsink 100mm". Wouldnt it be possible to drill in the needed holes to attach it at the pcb? I mean the pcb on the other side is flat, theres no parts built in.
The price for these arent low though... i only wanted to ask why such things wont work.
Yes, the thermal vias are necessary to give channels for the heat to pass through to the heatsink. The heatsink physically attaches to the board at the contact patch located directly behind the chips.
The problem with such a heatsink is the ridiculous cost, and hole drilling costs need to be added on top of that.
Also, please note copper standoffs will be required for attaching the board to the heatsink, in order to raise it above the surface of the PCB.
Any heatsink would work potentially, however having the holes pre drilled is a huge timesaver.
If Bkk gives the go-ahead that these will dissipate the heat well enough, given multiple boards stacked together and a fan blowing at them, I'm in for at least 50.
That is correct, there are plenty of options out there, the purpose of the thread is to find the most cost effective solution, which is made possible by buying in bulk. If Bkk gives the go-ahead that these will dissipate the heat well enough, given multiple boards stacked together and a fan blowing at them, I'm in for at least 50.
Sebastian, I think it will work. With thermal compond.
I found pined heat sink with the price of $9,30 for 200-299pcs. (100mmx100mmx25mm) Price for more need to quote request.
I'am not sure will pined heat sink work.... ??
https://www.micforg.co.jp/cgi-local/an/wse4.cgi?webpage=c_n100e.html&cmd=CMD_ITMSEL&itemcode=S001YS05
I found pined heat sink with the price of $9,30 for 200-299pcs. (100mmx100mmx25mm) Price for more need to quote request.
I'am not sure will pined heat sink work.... ??
https://www.micforg.co.jp/cgi-local/an/wse4.cgi?webpage=c_n100e.html&cmd=CMD_ITMSEL&itemcode=S001YS05
This particular heatsink is one of the options I am looking at to have custom made holes drilled in. The goal is sub $6 per heatsink.
Edit: quote fail
$6 per heatsink sounds good... though its a bit strange that even at that price the K16 will cost $35 and the heatsinks for it cost $24... I had thought that such things could be pennyware from china or india or similar. Looks like i had a wrong view.
What do you mean with copper standoffs? I thought the heatsink only has to be flat at the bottom, put thermal paste at it and mount it together with the pcb...
I thought that drilling wouldnt be a big problem. I probably could do it myself in some minutes... marking the holes at the back and drilling... aluminium should be possible to drill very easily.
What i dont like so much at the moment is the inflexibility... one batch has to be ordered, thats it... that means you have to plan everything beforehand which i cant... i dont know how many chips i will buy in total. Thats why i would have preferred if bkkcoins could sell the heatsink together with the sets. So i wouldnt need to plan and i could reorder.
I think i will search a bit now... by the way... the heatsink could be everything from 5cm-the border with the holes at the border... so maybe 4x4cm to 0.1x0.1cm. Ill check if there isnt a very cheap offer.
The heatsinks have to be physically connected to the copper thermal ducts on the board. I'm assuming that the board isn't completely flat on the bottom, so you'll need material to contact the copper thermal layer on the bottom of the board, and conduct it into the heat sink. I personally would prefer either one large heatsink which covers all 16 chips; or even better, water blocks for water cooling. Am I the only person who would like to be able to over-clock these, and not have to run a massive box of fans?
I am confused.
Is it K16 board dimension at 10cmx10cm, price for those for 300pcs are at 9,3$, steamboat will ask for better pricing? So if you have heat sink at 10cmx10cm it goes on one K16 board?
Summary Preliminary Specs:
10cm x 10cm board
16 chips/board
24A 1.2V, 1A 3.3V supply on board (~32W total)
PCI Express Power connector for use with ATX PSU
USB mini type B connector, no power draw
PIC USB micro controller on board with bootloader for USB firmware upgrades
I2C board-to-board, daisy chain connector
Fan 3 pin connector (on board temp sensor and PWM speed control)
Is it K16 board dimension at 10cmx10cm, price for those for 300pcs are at 9,3$, steamboat will ask for better pricing? So if you have heat sink at 10cmx10cm it goes on one K16 board?
Summary Preliminary Specs:
10cm x 10cm board
16 chips/board
24A 1.2V, 1A 3.3V supply on board (~32W total)
PCI Express Power connector for use with ATX PSU
USB mini type B connector, no power draw
PIC USB micro controller on board with bootloader for USB firmware upgrades
I2C board-to-board, daisy chain connector
Fan 3 pin connector (on board temp sensor and PWM speed control)
I've also been looking into heatsinks for this board. 100x100 won't do unless you really want to cover up the standoff/mounting holes.
Something like 3.6 x 4 in is what I was thinking. I priced this out, extruded, but without the 4 mounting holes located in the middle of each group of 4 ASICs is about $4.52 in quantities of 1000 and $5.52 for 500.
The is an estimated per piece without tax or shipping. A group buy would be required which I would be willing to undertake if needed.
Something like 3.6 x 4 in is what I was thinking. I priced this out, extruded, but without the 4 mounting holes located in the middle of each group of 4 ASICs is about $4.52 in quantities of 1000 and $5.52 for 500.
The is an estimated per piece without tax or shipping. A group buy would be required which I would be willing to undertake if needed.
I have outlined the type of heatsink. Please see the OP.
Sorry, i overread the setting. So its 4 heatsinks for each K16 board.
I now found what i referred to with the holes under the chips... Its this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2179575
If i understand it correctly it means the holes are filled with heat dissipating stuff so that the chip can connect to the heatsink. The heatsink doesnt have to reach to the chip, its already done in the pcb.
I dont think that asking for prices for different quantities is bad business behaviour. Often they will give a list with quantity to create and the attached price to it. I thought that you maybe have such list.
Forgive my noobness but whats the problem with such heatsink for example: http://uk.farnell.com/h-s-marston/890sp-01000-a-100/heat-sink-100mm/dp/4105977
Its the first result searching "heatsink 100mm". Wouldnt it be possible to drill in the needed holes to attach it at the pcb? I mean the pcb on the other side is flat, theres no parts built in.
The price for these arent low though... i only wanted to ask why such things wont work.
Sorry, i overread the setting. So its 4 heatsinks for each K16 board.
I now found what i referred to with the holes under the chips... Its this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2179575
If i understand it correctly it means the holes are filled with heat dissipating stuff so that the chip can connect to the heatsink. The heatsink doesnt have to reach to the chip, its already done in the pcb.
I dont think that asking for prices for different quantities is bad business behaviour. Often they will give a list with quantity to create and the attached price to it. I thought that you maybe have such list.
Forgive my noobness but whats the problem with such heatsink for example: http://uk.farnell.com/h-s-marston/890sp-01000-a-100/heat-sink-100mm/dp/4105977
Its the first result searching "heatsink 100mm". Wouldnt it be possible to drill in the needed holes to attach it at the pcb? I mean the pcb on the other side is flat, theres no parts built in.
The price for these arent low though... i only wanted to ask why such things wont work.
Yes, the thermal vias are necessary to give channels for the heat to pass through to the heatsink. The heatsink physically attaches to the board at the contact patch located directly behind the chips.
The problem with such a heatsink is the ridiculous cost, and hole drilling costs need to be added on top of that.
Also, please note copper standoffs will be required for attaching the board to the heatsink, in order to raise it above the surface of the PCB.
Any heatsink would work potentially, however having the holes pre drilled is a huge timesaver.
If Bkk gives the go-ahead that these will dissipate the heat well enough, given multiple boards stacked together and a fan blowing at them, I'm in for at least 50.
That is correct, there are plenty of options out there, the purpose of the thread is to find the most cost effective solution, which is made possible by buying in bulk. If Bkk gives the go-ahead that these will dissipate the heat well enough, given multiple boards stacked together and a fan blowing at them, I'm in for at least 50.
Sebastian, I think it will work. With thermal compond.
I found pined heat sink with the price of $9,30 for 200-299pcs. (100mmx100mmx25mm) Price for more need to quote request.
I'am not sure will pined heat sink work.... ??
https://www.micforg.co.jp/cgi-local/an/wse4.cgi?webpage=c_n100e.html&cmd=CMD_ITMSEL&itemcode=S001YS05
I found pined heat sink with the price of $9,30 for 200-299pcs. (100mmx100mmx25mm) Price for more need to quote request.
I'am not sure will pined heat sink work.... ??
https://www.micforg.co.jp/cgi-local/an/wse4.cgi?webpage=c_n100e.html&cmd=CMD_ITMSEL&itemcode=S001YS05
This particular heatsink is one of the options I am looking at to have custom made holes drilled in. The goal is sub $6 per heatsink.
Edit: quote fail
$6 per heatsink sounds good... though its a bit strange that even at that price the K16 will cost $35 and the heatsinks for it cost $24... I had thought that such things could be pennyware from china or india or similar. Looks like i had a wrong view.
What do you mean with copper standoffs? I thought the heatsink only has to be flat at the bottom, put thermal paste at it and mount it together with the pcb...
I thought that drilling wouldnt be a big problem. I probably could do it myself in some minutes... marking the holes at the back and drilling... aluminium should be possible to drill very easily.
What i dont like so much at the moment is the inflexibility... one batch has to be ordered, thats it... that means you have to plan everything beforehand which i cant... i dont know how many chips i will buy in total. Thats why i would have preferred if bkkcoins could sell the heatsink together with the sets. So i wouldnt need to plan and i could reorder.
I think i will search a bit now... by the way... the heatsink could be everything from 5cm-the border with the holes at the border... so maybe 4x4cm to 0.1x0.1cm. Ill check if there isnt a very cheap offer.
I have outlined the type of heatsink. Please see the OP.
Sorry, i overread the setting. So its 4 heatsinks for each K16 board.
I now found what i referred to with the holes under the chips... Its this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2179575
If i understand it correctly it means the holes are filled with heat dissipating stuff so that the chip can connect to the heatsink. The heatsink doesnt have to reach to the chip, its already done in the pcb.
I dont think that asking for prices for different quantities is bad business behaviour. Often they will give a list with quantity to create and the attached price to it. I thought that you maybe have such list.
Forgive my noobness but whats the problem with such heatsink for example: http://uk.farnell.com/h-s-marston/890sp-01000-a-100/heat-sink-100mm/dp/4105977
Its the first result searching "heatsink 100mm". Wouldnt it be possible to drill in the needed holes to attach it at the pcb? I mean the pcb on the other side is flat, theres no parts built in.
The price for these arent low though... i only wanted to ask why such things wont work.
Sorry, i overread the setting. So its 4 heatsinks for each K16 board.
I now found what i referred to with the holes under the chips... Its this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2179575
If i understand it correctly it means the holes are filled with heat dissipating stuff so that the chip can connect to the heatsink. The heatsink doesnt have to reach to the chip, its already done in the pcb.
I dont think that asking for prices for different quantities is bad business behaviour. Often they will give a list with quantity to create and the attached price to it. I thought that you maybe have such list.
Forgive my noobness but whats the problem with such heatsink for example: http://uk.farnell.com/h-s-marston/890sp-01000-a-100/heat-sink-100mm/dp/4105977
Its the first result searching "heatsink 100mm". Wouldnt it be possible to drill in the needed holes to attach it at the pcb? I mean the pcb on the other side is flat, theres no parts built in.
The price for these arent low though... i only wanted to ask why such things wont work.
The problem with such a heatsink is the ridiculous cost, and hole drilling costs need to be added on top of that.
Also, please note copper standoffs will be required for attaching the board to the heatsink, in order to raise it above the surface of the PCB.
Any heatsink would work potentially, however having the holes pre drilled is a huge timesaver.
If Bkk gives the go-ahead that these will dissipate the heat well enough, given multiple boards stacked together and a fan blowing at them, I'm in for at least 50.
[/quote]If Bkk gives the go-ahead that these will dissipate the heat well enough, given multiple boards stacked together and a fan blowing at them, I'm in for at least 50.
That is correct, there are plenty of options out there, the purpose of the thread is to find the most cost effective solution, which is made possible by buying in bulk.
Sebastian, I think it will work. With thermal compond.
I found pined heat sink with the price of $9,30 for 200-299pcs. (100mmx100mmx25mm) Price for more need to quote request.
I'am not sure will pined heat sink work.... ??
https://www.micforg.co.jp/cgi-local/an/wse4.cgi?webpage=c_n100e.html&cmd=CMD_ITMSEL&itemcode=S001YS05
I found pined heat sink with the price of $9,30 for 200-299pcs. (100mmx100mmx25mm) Price for more need to quote request.
I'am not sure will pined heat sink work.... ??
https://www.micforg.co.jp/cgi-local/an/wse4.cgi?webpage=c_n100e.html&cmd=CMD_ITMSEL&itemcode=S001YS05
This particular heatsink is one of the options I am looking at to have custom made holes drilled in. The goal is sub $6 per heatsink.
Edit: quote fail
Any heatsink would work potentially, however having the holes pre drilled is a huge timesaver.
If Bkk gives the go-ahead that these will dissipate the heat well enough, given multiple boards stacked together and a fan blowing at them, I'm in for at least 50.
If Bkk gives the go-ahead that these will dissipate the heat well enough, given multiple boards stacked together and a fan blowing at them, I'm in for at least 50.
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