Topic: KNC Titan 300mh/Innsilicon 270mh/L3 250mh Bitmain Scrypt Miners Compared. Meh! (Read 2129 times)

L3 is going to cost around 1700 dollar.

its the difficulty rise that has me concerned.......bitmain with its btc miners always fills farms up for themselves or others before shipping
if it is the same with the L3 it is the same.

All the bitcoin miners in china can do math and see that you'd make more with scrypt miners to btc then btc miners direct..(same bet I made in
2014 on the knc titan vs keeping the neptune btc miner)

Now they can get equip in mass A4's from Innsilicon and L3 bitmain miners at 250mh 400 watts.in mass

it looks a lot like 2014 then BTC difficulty went to the moon and blew out home btc miners imho

if you can heat your house like me with miners and get 25% equip depreciation first year as it exists now on taxes..and get some coin..you can probably
break even at worse (like me 1200 bucks saved last 3 years in heating house..gas bill down to 18 bucks a month for water)

angles like that ...also my elec is only 10-11c kwh is in winter is 14c kwh in summer

me I may buy equip for the tax advantages and heat again next winter angle..but that may be the last of my titans

also

if LTC would go back to 0.006 ltc to btc thats 6 buck LTC

it currently is around 0.00437 ltc to btc at 1017 btc prices

we get 0.008 ltc to btc or I hope 0.01 ltc to btc would be looking at 10 buck LTC now

but lots of other coins to speculate on now rather then LTC and/or push into BTC instead

interesting

but me I'm sitting on my hands...then again with 3150mh I can afford too...

no idea...but again looks too much like 2014 btc difficulty rocket climb imho ..so makes me 'twitchy'

Hi @Searing,

thank you for the deep insight in actual scrypt mining (my zeus are on the graveyard).

If I do a quick math,
and divide the investment (price of miner)
through actual earnings at 10ct(US) Power,

I do not really see a chance 2 ever ROI.

a post i did on another thread on how/why/when I might say get an L3 or other equipment
with the numbers on this thread and IRS 25% of equip purchased applied towards taxes due
it is tempting...but imho with all this stuff coming out it is gonna be a scrypt difficulty rout.

Anyway post below on my thoughts on this right now..ie probably I'm gonna wait till Oct
or such till I pull the trigger on anything in that I still have ROI Titans chugging away

I just think Bitmain is gonna slam scrypt with difficulty. With their BTC equip it always hits
their farms first then the world...this could get ugly.

anyway thread for more on what I'm thinking (not that I know zip)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17367965

Never mind. Need to check my megamillions lottery ticket from Saturday. I'm sure I'm set ok right?

Just to be sure I'm awaiting the call that Lucy Liu wants me to be her love puppet.

So I'm good. (Delusion is what gets me through or so my friends thought on New Years
when told btc was around 1000 usd and I have 100.07 btc. So they figure if that's true the above
Stuff in the post has to come true. (To say they are still skeptical of crypto is an understatement.)

Although I sense the beginnings of FOMO desperation that I hope is the masses
reconsidering. Then again if they suddenly turn reasonable there goes my Lucy Liu shot,
so I'm conflicted 😐



 

 I can't, don't have space or any more power available, much less for YOUR farm (I've seen your numbers on litecoinpool).

 On the other hand all you have to do is move somewhere into my area (like I just moved last summer)....

 $1600 or so direct from BitMain - plus shipping - if their CN order page starts working (they might have sold out or it might not be fully active yet).

 I am also paid off on my A2s - things were looking a bit iffy for a while right when Innosilicon announced the A4, but their delays and the "not shipping a ton of them" and the teething issues slowed down the hashrate growth enough to help a lot.

Yeah I did that ...mined in 2015 when LTC price was low ....only way I got out is I was SOOOO pissed off I held when it was like 1.50 LTC price and dumped when it was over
3.75 usd..was like 6500 LTC or so....I was that stubborn..ate the titans price in electric too...just to make the hoard bigger

Just not sure with the other coin options out their beyond LTC that would work again. The LTC to BTC ratio then was 0.008 to 0.01 ltc to btc....if we could get 0.01 ltc to btc
back again at current prices that is $969 btc or $9.69 ltc...hell it could be difficulty city and we'd still be ahead of the curve!

Conflicted in 2014 watched the big difficulty pump of LTC and KNC Neptune"s BTC miners only had 5 month life and BTC home mining killed at 10c kwh and above
This A4's and bitmain L3's coming out like toasters has me concerned it may be a repeat of that. I've said this before but IF you had run a big A2 scrypt farm in
China say with 2c kwh electric and/or a huge BTC farm doing the same...you'd certainly get a new A4 of L3 scrypt miners for your data halls now..the math does
not lie! more $$$ in a big way compared to BTC equip and BTC difficulty rises imho.

Thus it may be a frigging blood bath for difficulty the first 9 months of 2017 and will be LTC and scrypt's swan song of Home Mining as a result....

Just to me looks damn familiar...so hedging/waiting especially after using the above info calculation on the Titans/A4's/L3's  on this thread

So I'll cower over here in the trees for a bit..watch you guys battle it out for equipment etc

I've never mined with a Titan, but I'm always wondering whether these figures are for Batch 1 or Batch 2+ Titans becuase I've seen screenshots of GenTarkin's Titan UI pulling 1530W?
Also is this the on-pool MHs figure or the reported 'at the miner' figure?
If it does do 250Mhs (no reason to expect it won't) this will be the 'at the miner' figure, so I'd count on less on-pool, say 235Mhs, and the price is a little less than $1600 USD excluding shipping so $1800 is a better figure to work with. https://shop.bitmain.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020161229040715306ygMSJQLh06C0
You can buy an L3 today.

Based on my experience (I have a few A4's  ) I'd use 265 Mh/s (on Pool) and 1100w (with the B3 firmware, the A4 will mine at a 'reported' 281Mh/s 24 x 7 rock solid like my A2's did). If you check their final press release (once they'd tested them outside a lab)  Inno's original power spec was off a little, and they need a 1200W+ PSU (mine are all 1500w)


I guess it's not too bad, the real question for me is: Should I sell my A4's and buy L3's? With twice the power effeiciency (and 1/2 the heat) I can double my capacity without pulling any more Kwh, or dispersing any more heat.  I think I just answered my own question 

L3's have a 180 Day warranty.

Thats what people were saying after the LTC price crashed from 20 to $1, but that period was the most profitable mining period ever for me, and I know of no other coin that is more profitable to mine than LTC(and im talking averaged over years)...it has proven the test of time over and over while other coins come and go. Of course as people are now fighting for what is left of scraps in mining profitability looks like attention is turning to LTC and you could very well be right. This should be an interesting development though...doubt a powerhouse like bitmain would come into the LTC market without some major LTC pump incoming (which would be relatively easy to do still with LTC and the bitcoin china owns).

The simple truth:
If you have a Scrypt ASIC NOW .... congrats, you already ROI'd and will keep doing so for a lil while longer.
If you plan on buying A4 / L3 .... congrats, it will take at least a year+ to ever ROI.... if diff and price stay where they are. We all know diff will skyrocket because people are addicted to mining even if its in the red.... so ROI will be 2-4years ... by then LTC may be completely worthless ... given how its done nothing but gone down consistently for the last 1-2 against BTC.

I DON'T KNOW ZIP.....BUT did trip over this on another thread you can follow ...about 1900 bucks aliexpress...and they say CC safe...but I've no clue...just pointing you there

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17354095


see posts under as well for more info

NOTE: FURTHER WARNING!!!!!

bitmain is KNOWN for filling data halls up BEFORE shipping units.....thus the difficulty rise imho may be less A4's and more bitmain ...this could get very very ugly
difficulty wise..just saying from past lurking and watching..others may be more informed on this kinda thing ask around.....


As to myself at 3200mh my plan may be to WAIT till end of 2017 and get a whatever approprate sized LTC unit at that time for 3 reasons

1) hopefully difficulty flat lines before say around the last 4 months of the year

2) I make so much on my Titan miners only 4 months of mining LTC with such would be a blessing if they keep the 25% equip depreciation you can take off all in 1 year

3) I can use say 2 of them at 800watts and get 60% of my winter heat paid 2017 to 2018 and could maybe even with ugly difficulty yet ROI with the heat benifit too
    this of course assumes worse case and my 3200mh of titans are doorstops due to difficulty and watts at that point..but still a work around

Has worked in the past....(good old KNC always late Oct Jupiter 550gh btc miner 2013.......late 1st knd titan nov 2014...other stuff end of 2015 (very little) 7 knc
liquidation titans (1 corp 6 knc liguidation) August of this year.....ate up all the mining I did nicely to ROI this year

But how I'm thinking now....not to mention 4) maybe some cheap titan cubes I can pick up along the way in dibs and dabs for little risk

Got to be an 'evil mastermind' to home mine anything these days..but as far as I can see it working with above is maybe creep thru next winter..beyond that imho
I think home LTC asic mining will be dead like home BTC mining in 2014 alas its a fun hobby kaput in a year likely without major scrypt pow price of coin rising

I'm at .068 kwh and I'll be running my A2's for quite a while longer, unless difficulty shoots to the money and the price doesn't adjust.

It's those people out there that are running around .10 I think won't be running long.

I'm in the paid off boat for my A2's so the only thing affecting them now is power costs and maintenance (PSU Failures, already had 1)

I want 2-3 of these new L3's but not at the price being thrown around right now $2400 -- for that price I'd rather build another GPU Miner.

Adopt me! (I have 10c kwh (think it is a mistake it should be 11c kwh ...we will see) now winter rates and starting in 5 months 14c kwh may 15th 2017 summer rates)

crap....my only saving grace is I heated 85% of my house last winter with 2 Titan miners and have 4 this year so looking at 95%..if I can just float these
beasts into winter of 2017-2018 before winding them up....that would be epic......trade what I spent EVEN in Electric for equiv LTC to BTC.....a draw...would
be a nice way to wrap all the last of asic home mining up....

can't be too greedy my 1st Titan (have now 9 Titans ...7 new picked up this year..1 300mh corporation default (new) and 6 400mh knc liguidation sale this summer
1900 bucks each (really 342mh with bad
temp worker put togethers and usual knc dumbness the ran tests on some without any  thermal pads duh) also new....so can't complain...roi'd already)

So it has to end sometime..already 1.25 years longer then I thought they'd last...just last hurrah ...one more winter 2017-2018 baby......make it an even 3.5 years till
...what knc titans have always wanted in their attempts to brick themselves......blessed 'doorstop' nirvana...... (I kid thee not..they longingly want to be doorstops)

Hell its a goal...now IF frigging LTC would go back to 0.01 LTC to BTC or at $960 BTC or $9.60 LTC.....all our troubles would be over (dare to dream)

 I suspect that most of the A2 units ever built are still hashing away - as they're still PROFITABLE for most folks (at current difficulty, 12c/KWH electric is still breakeven for an A2 on LiteCoinPool).

 Also keep in mind that most A2 units have been around long enough to have been long since paid off (probably the same for a most KNC Titan units for their current owners, though the "early $9995 preorder" folks that never sold out their miners might still have a ways to go).

 I just ran the numbers - at the less than 5c/KWH rate for my area, diff has to almost TRIPLE before my A2 units hit breakeven.
 I might have to worry about that later this year, but I'm hoping to be in the even LESS expensive electric cost area one county over by then.

Again mentioned previous post here I think ...KNC Titans ugly beasts..I usually just wait for you all to leave LTC network and 3 days latter difficulty drops

that trick may also not work anymore and I may just have to use my knc titans on quick block coins and multipools (knc titans don't like that much) alas...whatever

floats the boat...not yet in my case...but again if I just had an A4 right now it is what I'd do ..like mine gamecredits and hope for a pump or a multipool

but at 3150mh big enough that if you all leave the ltc network and it dumps difficulty i just sweep up 3 days later Then again with all this equipment dumping

it may just go sideways and I will have to tag along..eat the error rate pay the 5% fee (yech!) sigh

if you use Prohashing they pay out in all most any coin, not just  script coins  you can solo mine there and still be paid for solo mining , i know that may sound strange but they do pay for solo mining and you get paid. i tested it, I don't use Prohashing hashing much because my only Script miner that can actually pay me any thing  eats up Electricity it being = to a A2 but faster and uses more Electricity: Alchemist/Mat miner. my best pool to mine Scriipt on is CleverMining.com .

but yea you would think even with losing around  40 to 50 or so in speeds the L3 would still be better but is only  within  a few bucks i can see why Meh! fits here nothing to impressive after the Numbers are figured out .  and it may not be a as bad as it is looking but for sure won't be that great but well seee .

Titans NOW finally are solid...we have litghtfoot on here that can fix most anything ..the gen tarkin 3rd party firmware is stupendous
and the maxumark replacement brackets and individual heatsinks and 3000 rpm noctura fan replacement for the 1500 rpm crummy knc fans have
knocked down my dc/dc temps by 10c to 15c....they run cooler now in the summer then they did last winter

Something to keep in mind..the knc titans are more or less fixed now..most repasted as well...we are good for another 2 years (who'd a thunk it)
keep that in your calcs...we likely are not gonna fall of any scrypt pow network.....we may lose a cube ...but modular nature makes them hard to
kill and again lightfoot can fix them now...we are golden (of course this is not what you want to hear..2 year old scrypt miners have 2nd lease on
life is hardly helpful on LTC or other scrypt difficulty....sorry about that)...but keep this in mind on you LTC difficulty and scrypt difficulty future estimates
it tosses them in disarray.....



Also remember all those cheap former BTC data halls with cheap electric in China etc...all these new scrypt miners pow ...like A4's and L3's supposedly

all look MUCH MUCH BETTER then equivelant BTC miners...so heck ..they also will likely rush to mass buy...i mean the warehouse is setup from their previous A2's or BTC miners

2c kwh ..off to the races

(damn scared self) but likely very likely that is where the pow money will go now....to the bitmain L3's for sure imho when they pop in mass

a simple calculator will show all them former btc miner boys that it would make more sense to mine scrypt pow to btc (hell its what I've done with success with knc
titans the last 2 years...) (all my tricks disappearing)

Ah yeah i see, so basically if you can't invest alot and have low electricity cost, it's hard to make a real profit on asic mining. well i'll keep on GPU's then ^^ seems to be the safe bet for now, asic is really for elite ;(

 Most other Scrypt coin have gone to "merged mining capable" to even continue to exist - even Doge finally caved and went that way.


 The reason the "current profitability" is so close on the 3 units in question is that they are VERY HIGH profitability vs. cost of electric - double the difficulty (which I can see happening over the next year) and the differences get a lot more pronounced.

 Add in the A2 and the differences get a LOT more pronounced - but even the A2 is STILL going to be profitable if the current difficulty doubles (if you don't have HIGH electric costs).


 I do have to wonder if either of the "newer generation" rigs are ever going to be able to match the ROCK SOLID reliability of the A2 units.