Topic: KNCMINER trying to screw us one last time! - page 2. (Read 4009 times)
Nah, I'm not vested in this (potential) case - my own interest re: forums is limited to the fact that a trove of early mining information is effectively lost - was more a question which those who would be part might want to ask
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Yeah, like I said - they probably had the right to take it down.. the question was if they have the right to actually delete that information altogether. It's one thing to hide it from the public eye, and another to destroy
It's my understanding (not a lawyer, could be wrong) that as its their content, and as long as no case is actively using that as evidence (e.g no judge told them not to touch it) they can destroy it if they wish to.
But if you really want to know, I can put it in my next batch of questions to the lawyers
AFAIK only the original person that archived the pages can remove them(or court order I guess).
Inaccessible isn't necessarily the same as removed. As anybody with a desire to hide things can easily google it anyway, let me point the way: http://archive.org/post/1019415/retroactive-robotstxt-removal-of-past-crawls-aka-oakland-archive-policyAnd yes, this is by design - although a design of infinitesimally small thinking, even for a 2002 policy . It should be obvious that I think the spirit of the policy should be followed, not the letter, but there you go.
Got a few questions answered from the lawyers:
Yeah, like I said - they probably had the right to take it down.. the question was if they have the right to actually delete that information altogether. It's one thing to hide it from the public eye, and another to destroy Quote
they removed the information to protect themselves. They owned that information and had the right to remove it
By making this information public I have gotten other information from fellow users / victims.
One piece of valuable information, I hear one person (in Europe) had pretty much mirrored the whole of the KNC forums before it was taken down. Not sure if its a 100% backup but it sounds like ~98%.
I'll let you know more once I know more, I want to also see if this person would want to share his backup for the upcoming site...
One piece of valuable information, I hear one person (in Europe) had pretty much mirrored the whole of the KNC forums before it was taken down. Not sure if its a 100% backup but it sounds like ~98%.
I'll let you know more once I know more, I want to also see if this person would want to share his backup for the upcoming site...
Got a few questions answered from the lawyers:
1 - Right to removal of the forums:
2 - How long will this take
1 - Right to removal of the forums:
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they removed the information to protect themselves. They owned that information and had the right to remove it.
2 - How long will this take
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An individual action in the Stockholm District Court takes about a year nowadays. A class action suit is likely to be a bit faster, especially if the plaintiffs are consumers. It’s not the Stockholm District Court since only 5 courts in Sweden are allowed to accept class actions and they are specialized in this.
As we Investomers in AMT have done, use the Wayback immediately to capture and Publicly archive any webpage of theirs. http://archive.org/web/
Pages archived there are proven legally admissible evidence.
The site also lets you search back in history for any pages others have archived there.
Yeah, I grabbed a copy of whatever was left in the wayback machine - unfortunately, not everything is in there - and what's there now is not guaranteed to be there in the future as archived content can be made inaccessible retroactively.Pages archived there are proven legally admissible evidence.
The site also lets you search back in history for any pages others have archived there.
My question was more with regard to whether it would even be legal for them to destroy that information (I'd guess it's legal to take it offline as long as they retain a copy) when they were or could reasonably have been aware of a potential pending lawsuit. In the U.S. this is covered in part under spoliation laws - I have no idea about Sweden
Folks here might want to contact opieum2 who is doing work on the AMT scammer Joshua Zipkin. One thing he is pushing hard on is a matter of collusion between AMT/Bitmine.ch, Technobit, KNC, and Hashfast. For example: The Blockchain shows sizable BTC transfers between wallets owned by Joshua Zipkin owner of what was AMT to and from KNC along with what is like clockwork mining income from a KNC pool to Josh's wallet.
And then there is what we feel is the heart of the matter: PetaHash and the investment group behind it. They have strong links to KNC, AMT/Bitmine.ch, HashFast, and other rotten apples. Wanna bet that most of any hardware produced (that worked) went to them and other farms with little or for some cases no hardware making it to the non-Peta farm scale Consumers?
Seems like you guys are in a good track, and have lawyers that can help you... The future is starting to look brighter, good luck
As we Investomers in AMT have done, use the Wayback immediately to capture and Publicly archive any webpage of theirs. http://archive.org/web/
Pages archived there are proven legally admissible evidence.
The site also lets you search back in history for any pages others have archived there.
Yeah, I grabbed a copy of whatever was left in the wayback machine - unfortunately, not everything is in there - and what's there now is not guaranteed to be there in the future as archived content can be made inaccessible retroactively.Pages archived there are proven legally admissible evidence.
The site also lets you search back in history for any pages others have archived there.
My question was more with regard to whether it would even be legal for them to destroy that information (I'd guess it's legal to take it offline as long as they retain a copy) when they were or could reasonably have been aware of a potential pending lawsuit. In the U.S. this is covered in part under spoliation laws - I have no idea about Sweden
other communications between the client (you) and KnCMiner (email, forum posts etc anything that you may have).
Speaking of that... what are the laws over there with regard to possible destruction of evidence when you know or should reasonably know that there is a potential lawsuit pending? This in regard to their website redesign where the KnCMiner forums (full of good information on 'old' tech and miners) up and disappeared. ( They could still have all that information and just aren't publishing it, of course. )Pages archived there are proven legally admissible evidence.
The site also lets you search back in history for any pages others have archived there.
Wish you guys all luck. And wow lawyer is quite expensive "client retainer fee of $1000 USD" of 20 people = 20k in retainer expenses. Are they just working for retainer at that amount or do they get around 1/3 of settlement as well?
@TheRealSteve,
Good question, no idea myself, forwarded your question to the lawyer
@Searing, Good to see ya dude..., I remember you, we chatted quite a bit on the KNC forums as I think you and I were one of the first to get our Titans (Batch 1).
My username there was "Ryast" and my avatar was Steve Jobs with a tail
Good question, no idea myself, forwarded your question to the lawyer
@Searing, Good to see ya dude..., I remember you, we chatted quite a bit on the KNC forums as I think you and I were one of the first to get our Titans (Batch 1).
My username there was "Ryast" and my avatar was Steve Jobs with a tail
this is kinda weird in the sense there HAVE been 2nd batch titan shipped (those who paid for them) now the bonus titan is not available due to 'tech issues' where were the
tech issues when the paid 2nd batch units are shipping? The guy going to the offices should arrive with an attorney and have them explain that bit of fiction!
by the by the 2nd batch 200mh titans they are not gonna make either ...I thought those folk were getting refunds but knowing knc the will send them neptunes too
man they are so far down the slimy scale and still slipping
edit: saw lawsuit above you guys should go with that ..you have 'proof' the tech issue is a lie...only came up when they were 'supposed to' ship your 2nd batch titan
so imho looks like good odds
we that were screwed on the orig titan 1st batch crappy chip ..no firmware in any working form for alts for a couple months ..salute you....save yourselves...we are LOST...argh....croak!
tech issues when the paid 2nd batch units are shipping? The guy going to the offices should arrive with an attorney and have them explain that bit of fiction!
by the by the 2nd batch 200mh titans they are not gonna make either ...I thought those folk were getting refunds but knowing knc the will send them neptunes too
man they are so far down the slimy scale and still slipping
edit: saw lawsuit above you guys should go with that ..you have 'proof' the tech issue is a lie...only came up when they were 'supposed to' ship your 2nd batch titan
so imho looks like good odds
we that were screwed on the orig titan 1st batch crappy chip ..no firmware in any working form for alts for a couple months ..salute you....save yourselves...we are LOST...argh....croak!
Since they are offering 3 BTC, how much did you original pay for the original miner?
other communications between the client (you) and KnCMiner (email, forum posts etc anything that you may have).
Speaking of that... what are the laws over there with regard to possible destruction of evidence when you know or should reasonably know that there is a potential lawsuit pending? This in regard to their website redesign where the KnCMiner forums (full of good information on 'old' tech and miners) up and disappeared. ( They could still have all that information and just aren't publishing it, of course. )
Hey everyone!
Sorry for the delay, its always when you have something important to do you have something else you also have to do
anyways, as I wrote in my last reply: I met the lawyers today in Sweden and yes, we do have options!!
Before you read any further, please note this important thing:
If you want to join in the lawsuit please write to KNC and tell them you are NOT taking either of their options and that you DO NOT want delivery of the Neptune or 3 BTC.
If you have taken delivery of the Neptune, do not open it, keep it packed as original in the corner.
This is only for the people who chose the Titan as the bonus machine
The two lawyers who I have spoken with are Magnus and Joakim, they already have suits against KNC for the original Neptunes, the 'super jupiters' (also known as 2nd hand junk) and other things, if you want to you can contact the lawyers at the below address to verify anything I am about to tell you:
Magnus Daar
Advokat & Partner
_____________________________
Advokatfirman Rise & Co AB
Ferkens Gränd 1, 111 30 Stockholm, Sweden
Mob. +46 (0)708 86 81 61
Mail: [email protected]
Web: www.riseco.se
If you go with the above lawyers, you will be getting people who are already engaged against KNC and not starting out, they know KNC and KNC's history or cheating people like you and me.
If using the above contact details to email/call etc the lawyers, please mention my name (Ryan) so they know which case you are enquiring about. As they have so many cases against KNC for so many different things it can otherwise take some time before they know what you are talking about.
As all of you in the same boat as me already know, and suspected: KNC offered us a Bonus Titan Batch 2, they kept us waiting for months and now they have told every one of us a "technical issue" is why we are not getting our machines - that is (I suspected), fraud, but since I am not a legal person myself I contacted the lawyers to confirm what I suspected.
The good news is the lawyers think we have a very good case on this.
The other good news is Sweden allows Class Action suits to be brought against companies and thats exactly what we plan to do.
These scummy people need to be sued, we all know that. This is not cointerra or hashfast where the company was dying without money so they tried to skip out, KNC has a lot of money that WE gave them, now they are using that same money to dig our graves.
I have spoken with the lawyers, joined the suit and volunteered to be the "ambassador" for this suit (more details on how you can join the suit below), I will answer any questions you may have, or forward any questions to the lawyers if you want me to (within reason of course).
While bitcointalk is an awesome place to discuss this, it also has a 10000 different topics (or more) so to keep it more condensed and focused I will be starting a (tiny) website just for this suit, some place where we can gather testimonials, user details, purchase details etc all in one place.
The money
------------
Filing a suit is not free and lawyer man hours is not free either.
To get in on the suit you will have to pay a client retainer fee of $1000 USD, that is, in my opinion a small price to pay compared to how much we have lost and how much we hope to gain back.
We will also need around 20 people to go forward with the suit.
From those who wants to join the lawsuit, we need each person’s order confirmation, personal details, the first KnC-offer (eg: bonus machine details) and the second KnC-offer (basically same stupid email we all go telling us they had a "technical issue") and other communications between the client (you) and KnCMiner (email, forum posts etc anything that you may have).
Feel free to spread this information and my contact details among your contacts and in the community. The more people who join, the more power to us.
Money 2
--------
This is not part of the lawsuit but my appeal to you, if you do join the lawsuit, I would appreciate it if you could send me $25-$50 USD, this will be used for the website that I mentioned earlier.
Once the website is up, I want to have some Google Adwords programs up so that when someone (like you and me) searches for KNC they see the ad, they hopefully join the lawsuit and it helps all of us - we need to get the word out, adwords, facebook, twitter etc. Whatever it takes.
If you want to do the adwords thing yourself, that too is fine (for example if you have a free google voucher), but please tell me so that we don't compete on the same ads and the same words wasting time, effort and money.
There are many people out there who have gotten the same rotten deal as us, but they sadly will miss this thread, we need to try our best to reach them and so the above are my best ideas... I am totally open to more ideas, like I said, we are all in this together.
Questions? Write here if you think everyone can benefit from them or feel free to PM me (like some of you have done) especially if giving me your personal details.
Questions for the lawyers? They are friendly guys, if you don't wnt to write to them directly, ask me and I'll ask them for you.
I think a lot of you already know me if you were on the KNC forums, my username there was "Ryast".
Sorry for the delay, its always when you have something important to do you have something else you also have to do
anyways, as I wrote in my last reply: I met the lawyers today in Sweden and yes, we do have options!!
Before you read any further, please note this important thing:
If you want to join in the lawsuit please write to KNC and tell them you are NOT taking either of their options and that you DO NOT want delivery of the Neptune or 3 BTC.
If you have taken delivery of the Neptune, do not open it, keep it packed as original in the corner.
This is only for the people who chose the Titan as the bonus machine
The two lawyers who I have spoken with are Magnus and Joakim, they already have suits against KNC for the original Neptunes, the 'super jupiters' (also known as 2nd hand junk) and other things, if you want to you can contact the lawyers at the below address to verify anything I am about to tell you:
Magnus Daar
Advokat & Partner
_____________________________
Advokatfirman Rise & Co AB
Ferkens Gränd 1, 111 30 Stockholm, Sweden
Mob. +46 (0)708 86 81 61
Mail: [email protected]
Web: www.riseco.se
If you go with the above lawyers, you will be getting people who are already engaged against KNC and not starting out, they know KNC and KNC's history or cheating people like you and me.
If using the above contact details to email/call etc the lawyers, please mention my name (Ryan) so they know which case you are enquiring about. As they have so many cases against KNC for so many different things it can otherwise take some time before they know what you are talking about.
As all of you in the same boat as me already know, and suspected: KNC offered us a Bonus Titan Batch 2, they kept us waiting for months and now they have told every one of us a "technical issue" is why we are not getting our machines - that is (I suspected), fraud, but since I am not a legal person myself I contacted the lawyers to confirm what I suspected.
The good news is the lawyers think we have a very good case on this.
The other good news is Sweden allows Class Action suits to be brought against companies and thats exactly what we plan to do.
These scummy people need to be sued, we all know that. This is not cointerra or hashfast where the company was dying without money so they tried to skip out, KNC has a lot of money that WE gave them, now they are using that same money to dig our graves.
I have spoken with the lawyers, joined the suit and volunteered to be the "ambassador" for this suit (more details on how you can join the suit below), I will answer any questions you may have, or forward any questions to the lawyers if you want me to (within reason of course).
While bitcointalk is an awesome place to discuss this, it also has a 10000 different topics (or more) so to keep it more condensed and focused I will be starting a (tiny) website just for this suit, some place where we can gather testimonials, user details, purchase details etc all in one place.
The money
------------
Filing a suit is not free and lawyer man hours is not free either.
To get in on the suit you will have to pay a client retainer fee of $1000 USD, that is, in my opinion a small price to pay compared to how much we have lost and how much we hope to gain back.
We will also need around 20 people to go forward with the suit.
From those who wants to join the lawsuit, we need each person’s order confirmation, personal details, the first KnC-offer (eg: bonus machine details) and the second KnC-offer (basically same stupid email we all go telling us they had a "technical issue") and other communications between the client (you) and KnCMiner (email, forum posts etc anything that you may have).
Feel free to spread this information and my contact details among your contacts and in the community. The more people who join, the more power to us.
Money 2
--------
This is not part of the lawsuit but my appeal to you, if you do join the lawsuit, I would appreciate it if you could send me $25-$50 USD, this will be used for the website that I mentioned earlier.
Once the website is up, I want to have some Google Adwords programs up so that when someone (like you and me) searches for KNC they see the ad, they hopefully join the lawsuit and it helps all of us - we need to get the word out, adwords, facebook, twitter etc. Whatever it takes.
If you want to do the adwords thing yourself, that too is fine (for example if you have a free google voucher), but please tell me so that we don't compete on the same ads and the same words wasting time, effort and money.
There are many people out there who have gotten the same rotten deal as us, but they sadly will miss this thread, we need to try our best to reach them and so the above are my best ideas... I am totally open to more ideas, like I said, we are all in this together.
Questions? Write here if you think everyone can benefit from them or feel free to PM me (like some of you have done) especially if giving me your personal details.
Questions for the lawyers? They are friendly guys, if you don't wnt to write to them directly, ask me and I'll ask them for you.
I think a lot of you already know me if you were on the KNC forums, my username there was "Ryast".
If you have not yet settled with KNC miner, please read my next post in a few hours (it's going to be a long post) and please hold off a bit, I just met with some lawyers and I have some news that I am sure you will find very interesting.
We DO have options other than just the 2 sh!t options KNC are offering us... more like bending us over and giving us "options".
We DO have options other than just the 2 sh!t options KNC are offering us... more like bending us over and giving us "options".
The situation is pretty extreme... KNC has been going downhill for quite a bit of time. People are comparing them to BFL even... Despite this you should remain your cool if you visit their offices. Get a rest before going, you'll lose all your reasning if you're not cool and they'll simply kick you out from there...
Swedish folks that bought from them should organize a small group to go and talk to them, otherwise they won't move much or pay attention to you, only
I've been around this KNC subject for quite some time, as I've been with all of the BFL situation... I hope everyone gets out of KNC without much trouble. I'll be watching...
At least so far they have not been compared to Joshua Zipkin and AMT Miners. Josh along with AMT's partners in crime Bitmine.ch have out-scammed them all. Joshua Zipkin has fled to Bulgaria to avoid the lawsuit in-progress and other pending prosecution he will face if he ever returns to the USA. Swedish folks that bought from them should organize a small group to go and talk to them, otherwise they won't move much or pay attention to you, only
I've been around this KNC subject for quite some time, as I've been with all of the BFL situation... I hope everyone gets out of KNC without much trouble. I'll be watching...
I bought a miner from the scammers last year, a Neptune.
I fell for the 2 for one 1 offer and didnt take cloud mining as an option, I instead opted for the "bonus machine" but made one good decision, when given the option I opted for the Titan miner as the bonus machine and today I get this message:
The low down, sons of vipers and b**hes are trying to screw us over one last time.
So what, just don't take the offer... Stick to your guns!... They obviously made a mistake, and can't cover the previous offer.I fell for the 2 for one 1 offer and didnt take cloud mining as an option, I instead opted for the "bonus machine" but made one good decision, when given the option I opted for the Titan miner as the bonus machine and today I get this message:
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Dear Sir/Madam.
We can see from our records that you have selected to receive a bonus Titan miner as part of the 2 for 1 offer we ran last year. Due technical issues in the selection process the Titan miner was not correctly registered as a choice and not accounted for. In this case we would like to offer you the following options instead of receiving the bonus Titan miner.
Option 1: Swap the bonus Titan miner for a free Neptune miner expected to ship within the next few weeks.
Or
Option 2: Receive a BTC payment of 3 Bitcoins per bonus Titan miner you were entitled to. (If you select this option please provide a BTC wallet address with your confirmation)
Please reply to this email to confirm your choice before the end of business 17:00 CET on Friday 3rd of April.
Thank you.
KnCMiner Team.
We can see from our records that you have selected to receive a bonus Titan miner as part of the 2 for 1 offer we ran last year. Due technical issues in the selection process the Titan miner was not correctly registered as a choice and not accounted for. In this case we would like to offer you the following options instead of receiving the bonus Titan miner.
Option 1: Swap the bonus Titan miner for a free Neptune miner expected to ship within the next few weeks.
Or
Option 2: Receive a BTC payment of 3 Bitcoins per bonus Titan miner you were entitled to. (If you select this option please provide a BTC wallet address with your confirmation)
Please reply to this email to confirm your choice before the end of business 17:00 CET on Friday 3rd of April.
Thank you.
KnCMiner Team.
The low down, sons of vipers and b**hes are trying to screw us over one last time.
I'd be Counter-offering them to accept half the price of the Titan order returned to you in Bitcoin.
I thought KNC was one of the good guys, turns out the are as bad as BFL, BA, HF, etc.
The original deal was Hash While You Wait, then they changed it to Hash while you wait ***OR*** 2nd miner, had they said that in the beginning there would have been a LOT of cancellations.
Now they are changing it again because they think.... who can do a f**k about it?
Now they are changing it again because they think.... who can do a f**k about it?
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