Kraken to turn over select customer data to IRS after July court loss - page 2.

DaveF

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on October 30, 2023, 08:41:21 PM

Dave, I think they're going to get more than letters. They're going to get fully audited. Not just for the past tax year but ever since bitcoin got popular. They'll be put under a huge microscope with their finances and guaranteed they'll end up owing money to the IRS.

Depends, on how far over the $20k is was, if they did file any paperwork on it and a host of other things.
Back when Coinbase sent over a bunch of info (2017? 18? don't remember) there were a lot of people talking gloom and doom about the coming audits. For the most part a lot of people who got letters who could prove that they did not make profits, or at least provided paperwork showing no profit the IRS went away.

The people who mined 100BTC back in 2009 and sold it for 17500 a coin in 2017 and didn't report any of it. They got in some trouble. But for the most part, the IRS is easy to deal with.
Pay them what you owe and they go away.

-Dave

NotATether

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Is there any US exchange that is safe from IRS interference these days?

That meaning, they enforce KYC but they aren't constantly badgered by the IRS about people who transacted more than $20,000 in crypto.

So, it looks like the only way to completely get them off your heels over there is by doing a P2P trade, whether for cash or by bank transfer.

Poker Player

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on October 30, 2023, 08:41:21 PM

Quote from: DaveF

Sort of, no matter what if you bought something for $600 and sold it for $18000 you may not have had to pay taxes but you were still supposed to report the income.
Now let's be honest nobody really does that unless you are really making a living at trading.

why would you have to report the income if they didn't expect you to pay taxes on it? you have to pay taxes too i would imagine. also, the way the IRS figures it is, if these people would lie about Kraken then they probably have other lies they're living in the crypto world, good targets for a full audit guaranteed those people will be audited out the rear end...

DaveF is right, I have explained this before. It doesn't matter that there is no specific regulation that charges taxes for selling stones that you find in the mountains or dog shit. If you buy a rock or dog shit from me for $1 and sell it for $1K, the IRS is going to want to tax the $999 profit.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: YOSHIE on October 30, 2023, 11:13:59 AM

For example:

Quote

Crypto exchange Kraken is challenging (the IRS) for user data, claiming the lawsuit constitutes unwarranted intrusion and asking a federal court to intervene.
Kraken exchange defies IRS requests, unwarranted treasure hunters, Kraken suggests that retailers simply want to squeeze more from the exchange than it needs.
And also Kraken asked a federal court in San Francisco to instruct the IRS to stop its investigation.

Even though in this case there are pros and cons, it seems that the response proposed by Kraken has received a positive response from several groups, even though currently the IRS is looking for extensive information regarding the Kraken case, but whatever happens, we will see the next trial, Whether Kraken's lawsuit against the IRS will result in a positive decision for Kraken, of course this will give rise to a lot of certainty from Kraken, an interesting case to monitor.

i don't know where you got that information from but it wasn't in the linked story:

Kraken explained that it attempted to fight those demands in court and managed to limit the number of clients affected and reduce the amount of data concerned.

Kraken said that it must nevertheless provide the IRS with profile information and transaction records for customers who transacted more than $20,000 in any year between 2016 and 2020. Specifically, Kraken said that it must provide users’ names, birthdates, tax ID numbers, addresses and contact information, and transaction histories.

Quote from: DaveF

Sort of, no matter what if you bought something for $600 and sold it for $18000 you may not have had to pay taxes but you were still supposed to report the income.
Now let's be honest nobody really does that unless you are really making a living at trading.

why would you have to report the income if they didn't expect you to pay taxes on it? you have to pay taxes too i would imagine. also, the way the IRS figures it is, if these people would lie about Kraken then they probably have other lies they're living in the crypto world, good targets for a full audit guaranteed those people will be audited out the rear end...

Quote

I think some people are going to get letters from the IRS asking about trades. But, I do not think a lot of people are going to get them.

-Dave

Dave, I think they're going to get more than letters. They're going to get fully audited. Not just for the past tax year but ever since bitcoin got popular. They'll be put under a huge microscope with their finances and guaranteed they'll end up owing money to the IRS.

DaveF

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on October 30, 2023, 12:49:19 AM

The exchange will be required to report information on customers who transacted more than $20,000 between 2016 and 2020.

https://cryptoslate.com/kraken-to-turn-over-select-customer-data-to-irs-after-july-court-loss/

I think 2016 was when there was no rules about crypto from the IRS. You could just buy and sell BTC without paying any taxes or anything. Problem is, at some point maybe 2018 or 19, the IRS started coming down hard on Americans. They wanted to know if they were involved in crypto - making them check a box on their tax return if they were. Now they're going to find out who was honest and who wasn't. Shocked

This is an interesting situation since Kraken is not an american company they are outside the USA. yet the IRS can still tell them what to do and they can't do anything about it.

Sort of, no matter what if you bought something for $600 and sold it for $18000 you may not have had to pay taxes but you were still supposed to report the income.
Now let's be honest nobody really does that unless you are really making a living at trading.

I think some people are going to get letters from the IRS asking about trades. But, I do not think a lot of people are going to get them.

-Dave

sokani

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I know when one signs up with a CEX, he automatically gives up his privacy but the level of data IRS is asking for such as IP addresses, banking details, employment information, and sources of wealth are way too much. It's good to hear that Kraken is going to fight back with a lawsuit to limit the data they are going to share with IRS. However, I doubt if the ruling will be in their favour because from the look of things it's like Kraken is being targeted by the US government.

YOSHIE

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on October 30, 2023, 12:49:19 AM

This is an interesting situation since Kraken is not an american company they are outside the USA. yet the IRS can still tell them what to do and they can't do anything about it.

There is something interesting about the continuation of the Kraken exchange case with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), where I see that in this case there is a challenge filed under the applicable law to the investigation carried out by the IRS.
For example:

Quote

Crypto exchange Kraken is challenging (the IRS) for user data, claiming the lawsuit constitutes unwarranted intrusion and asking a federal court to intervene.
Kraken exchange defies IRS requests, unwarranted treasure hunters, Kraken suggests that retailers simply want to squeeze more from the exchange than it needs.
And also Kraken asked a federal court in San Francisco to instruct the IRS to stop its investigation.

Even though in this case there are pros and cons, it seems that the response proposed by Kraken has received a positive response from several groups, even though currently the IRS is looking for extensive information regarding the Kraken case, but whatever happens, we will see the next trial, Whether Kraken's lawsuit against the IRS will result in a positive decision for Kraken, of course this will give rise to a lot of certainty from Kraken, an interesting case to monitor.

larry_vw_1955

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Activity: 1036

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The exchange will be required to report information on customers who transacted more than $20,000 between 2016 and 2020.

https://cryptoslate.com/kraken-to-turn-over-select-customer-data-to-irs-after-july-court-loss/

I think 2016 was when there was no rules about crypto from the IRS. You could just buy and sell BTC without paying any taxes or anything. Problem is, at some point maybe 2018 or 19, the IRS started coming down hard on Americans. They wanted to know if they were involved in crypto - making them check a box on their tax return if they were. Now they're going to find out who was honest and who wasn't. Shocked

This is an interesting situation since Kraken is not an american company they are outside the USA. yet the IRS can still tell them what to do and they can't do anything about it.

Topic: Kraken to turn over select customer data to IRS after July court loss - page 2. (Read 258 times)