Topic: Kwik Trip To Install 800 New Bitcoin ATM - page 2. (Read 502 times)

I know stuff in the US is pretty weird sometimes with all those checks and stuff but fees for withdrawing cash from an ATM?
Here in Europe, we've had zero fees for cash withdrawal at the ATM oned by your banks for like a decade and with my card, I can withdraw at any national bank with zero fees up to 10k euros a month.


People don't keep using them, some use the non-KYC ones to avoid taxation and some try an ATM for the first time as a novelty or to dump some cash into bitcoin because they had a good feeling the moment they passed by it. So I feel it's more like a souvenir shop client base than a normal soda vending machine for example.

11% fees ?? That’s damn high.
Rather going for an atm, I will make a personal deal or trade with any trusted members to buy BTC.
There are more better P2P options available, and that too in cheap rather than these high priced Bitcoin ATMs.
I don’t know why people still using these ATMs when there are more better options there with almost same anonymous features.

Moreover in order to setup a Bitcoin ATM in a country Bitcoins need to be legalised in those countries first.
For this reason also many countries don’t have any Bitcoins ATMs.
Moreover the ATMs also need to reduce the fees that they are charging, else soon there will be no one who will be using those.

Although I think the 11% fees are high I also can see the business behind it.

BATMs are not cheap
Keeping the back end servers up an running has a cost
Hiring people to put in / take out the money has a cost
Since they are still somewhat new customer service people have a cost
And, don't forget PROFIT.....

And this I see as the really annoying part, they probably have to keep the fees equal across the network.

People have gotten used to $4 ATM fees to pull out $40 in cash so this is really not that much worse for smaller transactions.

-Dave

That is correct apart from charging higher fees than exchange Bitcoin ATMs most require KYC and that is a big drawback for criminals or anyone who wants privacy this is even a no go area for a corrupt politician who wants to launder money through cryptocurrency, apart from the increase in Bitcoin adoption that Bitcoin ATM brings I don't see any positive impact on the Bitcoin ecosystem and decentralization which includes privacy protection.

And if we think about it even further, someone who does not will to pay taxes will continue not to pay taxes even when constrained.  So if we draw a line after all these laws, what happens is you and me are fair towards the Treasury but subjected to intrusive regulations and procedures while those not willing to pay taxes will simply continue to avoid them.

This is nowhere near a good excuse for mandatory KYC.  Impose this for all existing ATM's for any value exchanged and what happens is the 'bad' citizens will just start trading Peer to Peer, maybe for even better fees than ATM's would charge you.  A big win for the 'bad' citizen.  On the other end, you have to now share personal documents with a stranger's machine and have no assurance it will not make you end up being a victim of identity theft or other attacks this could lead to in the future.

No offense.  But I rather say we are putting a lot of pressure and focus on the wrong end of the 'bad citizens'.  €1,000 dirty money is nothing.  Remember we are paying taxes to institutions ran by politicians making a fortune out of dirty money.  Remember there are billions or even trillions moving around in dirty money and nobody does anything about it because of the names, power and positions of these people.

Remember the rich are not paying taxes.  They are avoiding them.  Legally, but they are doing it because they have the regulations ready just for them.  They have the money, the influence and the power.  You can not avoid them legally as a regular citizen.  Their billions are not taxed but you have to pay for your $100.  Makes me wonder how humans ever consider this being fair because if we want the discrepancy between us and the Rich to shrink up, we would probably and logically need to do the opposite.

Then why make it mandatory even for $100?  Even for $10?  Who in their right mind would go to an ATM and exchange $100 dirty money a thousand times to withdraw their dirty $100,000?  And if the ATM has KYC and AML limits, do you think the dude would actually use an ATM over alternatives such as trading locally Peer to Peer knowing the ATM might take a snap of his face every transaction and all of a sudden they have a hundred images of your face dating the same month?  If you impose KYC for all values and the trader moves on to the Peer to Peer exchange, then was KYC even necessary at all?

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Regards,
PrivacyG

Now I see why someone would pay 11% in fees to use this, while they could completely make every btc transactions and conversions through the smartphone by using an exchange app, paying much less from anywhere in the city.

It seems the measure taken by the regulators was needed then, because it was too easy to move dirty money with the help of these machines, lack of personal devices involved on the transactions and disposable addresses. It's still possible to transact up to 1000€ daily, but imagine how fishy it would be to deal with large sums of money in small portions of 1000€ each day... It's not an efficient method for criminals. I suppose this situation would eventually call the attention of the patrols or cameras around at some point.

This can be a piece of good news in the beginning when we see 800 new bitcoin ATMs installed and as a part of adoption this is a good step forward in theory maybe that was because of the demand from people's side to using bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, so the famous companies will expand their bitcoin services to people because of this demand, however, the amount of 11 percent fee is a lot for people especially if they want to use bitcoin ATMs for huge amounts money they should pay too much for the fees. Also the other nad side of bitcoin ATMs in the KYC part with all benefits of bitcoin ATMs still the clients have to provide their ID cards to use the ATMs with is not good for the privacy.

When it comes to Coinsource, the ones that are providing the ATMs it's even worse:

https://www.coinsource.net/faqs


So you can't even try to fool it once or twice by buying two beers the guys loitering around the stores or any other trick, you need a full verified account that will track all your purchases.

We have commented on this in the Spanish section. The shitcoins.club ATM network has gone from not having KYC for transactions under 1,000 euros to having it for any amount jusf few days ago. If we think about it, someone with 30,000 euros undeclared could go once a day for a month to convert them for 999 euros without paying taxes to the Treasury.

Also many ATMs have had to close in UK because of this issue by the looks of it.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.59490590

I think the attraction of these ATMs is the non-kyc. If there are going to be kyc for all operations, I don't see much of a future for them, and therefore I'm not very enthusiastic about news like this. I don't know if Kwik Trip have thought about this when making the investment, I don't think so.

If you say it's popular, it's not because there are already some people using it.
And I also don't agree if the burden is that big because most people will also think again to use it with such a heavy load.
And if you start KYC there shouldn't be any strict rules either.

Being charged 11% might sound a bit excessive. So in my opinion for large transactions, it is more effective. If it only sends a few Sats/dollar and we have to cover 11% then it will tend to fall behind.

In addition, I think in the future this will decrease if the interest of ATM users increases and asks for waivers.

I don’t know how popular these are today but I do have a buddy who operates a few of them and he seems to be doing pretty decent with it. I’ve looked in to using bitcoin ATMs before and it was simply too expensive for my liking. Plus there’s pretty strict KYC (know your customer) rules for most of them, which I understand but still think it sucks.

that's the drawback of these ATMs. once the user got burned with the fees, they will look for other economical options like using even their local crypto-exchange. you are only using BTC ATM for convenience purposes. some are just curious about it but for regular crypto tx, you won't go with the ATM. so in the long run, i don't think this kind of business will thrive, unless they will make their fees competitive with online options.

Why it should have 11% fees? This doesn't sound good, people will think this ATM is the worst way to get Bitcoin. Kwik Trip never thinks about "how to make people interested to use Bitcoin ATM", they only focus to get huge money by installing these ATMs. People may try these ATMs once, but then they will never come back because they are disappointed with the fees. I doubt if these ATMs will attract people if they still keep the fees at 11%. People must prefer to use exchanges, it has a lower fee and can be used anywhere.

Dare I say it; absolute daylight robbery. To be honest, while ATMs might be a good way of increasing adoption, this might actually do more harm than good, since people who are interested in using them, might go to use them, and realise that they charge a massive fee like that, which ultimately leads to them losing interest thinking that Bitcoin is fundamentally like that.

I know they have to recoup the costs of the machines somehow, but 11% is absolutely ridiculous. I'd be interested to know anyone that regularly uses them with those sort of fees. I'm not sure there's any monthly statistics on people using them, i.e just the number of people of independent deposits/withdrawals. With those kinds of fees, the convenience for me doesn't out  weigh those enormous fees.

Man! that's a big help and just to announce it is good news for the crypto industry. I'm not familiar with the charges fees since I haven't used Bitcoin ATM yet since is not available in our city. Maybe it is a reasonable price since they don't want to ruin their first move with unconvincing charge fees. If it is for the convenience of their customers then it would be a huge success for them since many people nowadays have their own share of bitcoins and to give them ATMs at their places is a hugely positive move for KWIK.

Total number of Bitcoin ATMs / Tellers in the United States: 33335
No wonder the total Bitcoin ATMs in the United States have become more prominent and might in this business industry there's a big profit waiting ahead.
Kwik Trip has a large branch in any country in the US and maybe they think that having a business like this is in demand.

Those people who are concerned about their privacy might didn't want these Bitcoin ATMs but for those who want to have Bitcoin very quick or fastest purchasing, maybe this is the best news for them.  So, it has still an advantage in the crypto space.

Unless I am wrong, this is not the first time Kwik is attempting to offer Cryptocurrencies.  Anyway.  The high fees were fine back when ATM's offered a certain degree of privacy.  I learned privacy has a cost and I started acknowledging this as a fact long time ago.  But now with all the Know Your Everything laws and orders, it makes no sense to use a KYC enabled ATM over an Exchange.

I assume the users of these ATM's are older people who know just pure and basic things about their Cryptocurrencies like sending and receiving, those who have an emergency or who are fooled into believing KYC enabled ATM's offer more privacy somehow than an Exchange would.  Or, maybe someone who simply does not want their banks to interfere with their Cryptocurrency transaction history.  Other than these types of people, I do not get why someone would see any kind of advantage in using an ATM.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

Exactly my concerns on Bitcoin ATMs even though most Bitcoin ATMs require KYC it also charges high fees even more than exchanges, apart from the part on their side it is privacy-conscious in this I think their may not require KYC for now but may be soon KYC will become mandatory.

11% fee?
Isn't that a bit too much ?
Like I would rather wait, sell my bitcoins online and pay so so so little. Plus why are they so sure that it's going to work? Investing in 800 ATM's ? That's a bold move to be sure but where even are they getting these investors from as well? I do think personally they are not going to have a good business and at the end the blame would be on bitcoins and with this fee they might as well deliver the fiat on a horse. They might also start an ATM card or something for sure to try and dominate the market but I think this won't really be adopted by most people.