large investment for an electronic handheld wallet?

Richard Rahl

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Quote from: annelions on September 21, 2011, 07:33:57 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I have to 2nd the opinion about smart phones. Phones will be integrated with credit cards in a couple of years making another gadget to carry around an anachronism.

I really hope not.

Drop your phone? Oops, can't buy groceries.
Accidentally leave your phone in the wash? Well, you didn't really need that prescription anyway.
Kid take apart your phone "to see how it works"? Oh, darn, the rent can wait.
Phone network down? Filling your car's gas tank is so overrated.

I'd rather keep my thin little (relatively) durable strips of plastic, you go ahead and use a smartphone. Wink

http://www.google.com/wallet/

Either way.
Drop your wallet?
Oops. Can't buy groceries and your bank account is probably empty now and your prescription has already been filled anyway. Oh well.

Drop your phone, track it by GPS. I've had to do that twice.

Never seen a phone network down. But, I don't know anyone who carries cash on a regular basis, so if the phone network goes down.... then well they can't buy gas anyway.

You keep your real wallet that can be lost. I'll be ready to use my phone soon enough. Something I can track and if all else fails then quite literally destroy remotely. (HTC Sense is nice! lol)

annelions

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Activity: 14

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I have to 2nd the opinion about smart phones. Phones will be integrated with credit cards in a couple of years making another gadget to carry around an anachronism.

I really hope not.

Drop your phone? Oops, can't buy groceries.
Accidentally leave your phone in the wash? Well, you didn't really need that prescription anyway.
Kid take apart your phone "to see how it works"? Oh, darn, the rent can wait.
Phone network down? Filling your car's gas tank is so overrated.

I'd rather keep my thin little (relatively) durable strips of plastic, you go ahead and use a smartphone. Wink

joeyjoe

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Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: joeyjoe on September 20, 2011, 03:31:26 AM

Quote from: deslok on September 18, 2011, 11:39:41 AM

i'd take a look here if you're going to try and develop a device like that, http://www.liquidware.com/

nah i use arduino

Oh it is arduino Cheesy

.

haha i have a full kit of the stuff already, used to be a seller

joeyjoe

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Activity: 224

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Quote from: deslok on September 18, 2011, 11:39:41 AM

i'd take a look here if you're going to try and develop a device like that, http://www.liquidware.com/

nah i use arduino

memvola

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Activity: 938

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Richard Rahl on September 18, 2011, 11:25:25 PM

In the next few years, people who don't own smartphones or tablets are going to be on the same level as the people who didn't buy their first PC until 2005 (and were under the age of 75).

True. On the other hand, most people still can't use their PC's properly.

Richard Rahl

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Activity: 56

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In the next few years, people who don't own smartphones or tablets are going to be on the same level as the people who didn't buy their first PC until 2005 (and were under the age of 75).

And lets face it, are there many people left who really give 2 shits about those people? lol

memvola

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Activity: 938

Merit: 1002

If the issue is price, and we are talking about mass production (which could help implement a new standard), I'd suggest a passive device.

Only the checkout hardware has to be connected to the network. Wallet only calculates what's to be transmitted to the network and the master device does the transfer itself. So, low processing power, no wireless connectivity, almost no battery consumption, etc. I don't know what would be the best means to connect the wallet to the master device though (maybe it can even get the electricity from this device, so that no embedded batteries will be needed). If you aren't going to manufacture those as well, it needs to be something readily available in the market so that these machines can process payments from both these passive wallets and smartphones.

EDIT: OK, I'll break OP's requirements, but without batteries it could be pretty slim, even credit-card size. You insert it to the machine, it displays how much is being withdrawn, maybe has an OK button. Advanced models can have a numeric pad to enter a passphrase.

How much would it cost to manufacture this kind of beast?

Fjordbit

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Activity: 588

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firstbits.com/1kznfw

Quote from: Alex Fenner on September 18, 2011, 01:25:22 PM

What kind of smartphones are you talking about that cost $200+

Most droids are $200+ if you aren't willing to extend your contract.

Alex Fenner

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What kind of smartphones are you talking about that cost $200+

johnj

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Quote from: deslok on September 18, 2011, 12:40:35 PM

Sounds like a chicken&egg issue, without lots of people looking to use them at physical locations developing a wallet(i'd guess 3/4 people i know have a feature phone not a smart phone) dosen't make sense, but these are the same people who won't even bother to look into bitcoins until they can use them at mcdonalds, and 200/phone is a ripoff johnj

Ahh, I admit it's been awhile since I looked into those. I think the last cell-phone I had was a pre-paid in 2005 or something.

Fjordbit

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Quote from: deslok on September 18, 2011, 12:34:14 PM

Any os is going to have vunerabilites even if you right it yourself from line 0, android, ios, xp, 7, linux, osx all have published vunerablities in one maner or another

All I will say is that I agree with this statement, but that it is limited in it's scope of thinking.

deslok

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Activity: 462

Merit: 250

It's all about the game, and how you play it

Sounds like a chicken&egg issue, without lots of people looking to use them at physical locations developing a wallet(i'd guess 3/4 people i know have a feature phone not a smart phone) dosen't make sense, but these are the same people who won't even bother to look into bitcoins until they can use them at mcdonalds, and 200/phone is a ripoff johnj

johnj

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If there were a reasonably priced, secure, stand-alone wallet device, I think there (could) be a market for them. Only after bitcoin becomes more 'mainstream', and the demographic grows beyond primarily high-tech users.

I don't have a smart-phone. Hell, I don't have a cell-phone at all. It's not that I don't want one, it's that I can't justify the monthly contracts - especially when it comes to a smart-phone with internet fees. And I'm not gonna go get a $200+ phone and pay $60+ a month for a mobile wallet.

But right now I think I'm one of the fewer Bitcoin users in that particular position.

deslok

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Activity: 462

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It's all about the game, and how you play it

Quote from: Fjordbit on September 18, 2011, 12:32:10 PM

Quote from: deslok on September 18, 2011, 11:39:41 AM

i'd take a look here if you're going to try and develop a device like that, http://www.liquidware.com/

This would not be for me. The problem is security. If you have a stack like that on linux, it's possible to hack. Especially for embedding computing, there's really no way to ensure an update of all of the devices once an attack is published.

Any os is going to have vunerabilites even if you right it yourself from line 0, android, ios, xp, 7, linux, osx all have published vunerablities in one maner or another

Fjordbit

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Activity: 588

Merit: 500

firstbits.com/1kznfw

Quote from: deslok on September 18, 2011, 11:39:41 AM

i'd take a look here if you're going to try and develop a device like that, http://www.liquidware.com/

This would not be for me. The problem is security. If you have a stack like that on linux, it's possible to hack. Especially for embedding computing, there's really no way to ensure an update of all of the devices once an attack is published.

deslok

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

It's all about the game, and how you play it

i'd take a look here if you're going to try and develop a device like that, http://www.liquidware.com/

Fjordbit

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

firstbits.com/1kznfw

I actually have this as an idea for a side project as well, with different goals though (and mine is not so flashy). It's just the case that there have been a lot of break-ins and threats of virii etc, and I know I could make a dedicated device that was secure in it's wallet versus securing a PC or a smartphone. Having a wallet on a SmartPhone seems like a terrible idea to me. There has been a known attack on a cell phone via Bluetooth. If BitCoin eventually takes off then it will become profitable to write one of these and just cruise airports or other public places looking for wallets. Even if the wallets are encrypted, an active virus can just grab it from memory when you spend from it (you have to decrypt it to use it).

Alex Fenner

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Sounds cool.

Richard Rahl

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Activity: 56

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Quote from: joeyjoe on September 14, 2011, 10:25:15 AM

Im going to make a mock up anyway for the fun of it. Will post a video on the forums after

That sounds like a better idea. I don't think it's a bad idea, I just wouldn't want to see anyone invest any decently sized amount of money into something that has a very low chance of succeeding.

joeyjoe

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Quote from: Richard Rahl on September 14, 2011, 10:22:16 AM

I think the world is going towards smart phones and tablet computers, rather than dedicated devices. A Smartphone is currently capable of much more than what the general population uses them for. However, I imagine in the coming years (say 5-10) that you're going to see a dramatic difference in the way we use them as compared with today. Even more so if we see an increase of Bitcoin uses and a wider acceptance.

So no, I do not think it would be a good idea to create a dedicated handheld wallet when I own a smartphone and most people I know own smart phones. That is, unless you are able to produce them for the price of a basic dollar store calculator and sell them for $5-10. Which I doubt you would be able to without some sort of large corporate backing, which would also take Bitcoins being much more widely known and accepted before a large corporation would even consider it.

on the mass, could be produced for around 5-10$. I realised after I wrote this that when it comes to buying in shops, someone would have a chip and pin type device and your wallet will be a card. Which means people would have their accounts with bitcoin banks... and then fee's... ahh i dont know how it would work.

Im going to make a mock up anyway for the fun of it. Will post a video on the forums after

Topic: large investment for an electronic handheld wallet? (Read 1977 times)