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Topic: [LAUNCHED] Bitcoincleanup.com: a website to stop Greenpeace's bitcoin FUD. (Read 1895 times)

hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 520
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Soon I will remove the mailing list. Nobody uses it anyway, and I haven't sent a single message from it. I think that would be better for everyone, and I was already advised to do this. Just a heads up.

There might also be a few minor wording changes, but everything else will stay more or less the same.
Hey, NotATether thank you for sharing that and feel so good to see the constant push for Bitcoin clean energy advocacy and development, I will soon be putting up my solar inverter in my mining farm which is still in the developmental stage.
In the next couple of week, I may try the new nodes to see how that fit in any way still a nob in Bitcoin technicality but I am sure of going 100% off electricity before the lunch of the mining farm.

You might want to monitor your traffic bandwidth to see if you are getting enough hits to justify wasting your money.  Wink

FYI:
Google search Bitcoincleanup.com
and the 1st site that pops up is https://cleanupbitcoin.com/
Funny enough your site is not even listed.
So you might want to get donations to pay Google if you expect your site to hold any water.  Wink


You may have to take a look again on google to see what result pop up on the list, we have started discussions and promotion over the last couple of months and that have spread the message on bitcoin clean energy, you may have to take a look at the thread I created some time ago to support the development.
BitcoinCleanup.com is a nonprofit website that debunks myths about Bitcoin's energy use and spreads information about Proof of Work.
This is a free campaign; you do not get paid for wearing these materials. You should wear them to help the cause.
@NotATether am glad to see you bringing this campaign here.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1965
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
I am 100% behind an initiative like this, because Greenpeace is sending out the wrong message and they ignore their own contribution to green house gasses and environmental pollution. (Example : Printing 1000's of pamphlets in an age where the Internet are used)  Roll Eyes

You are absolutely targeting the correct audience to launch an initiative like this, because bitcointalk.org has a strong network of Bitcoin supporters.. that will easily debunk this whole PoW myth.

You should also get a team to research a counter argument to highlight the combined affect that the Banking and other financial industries has on energy use and environmental pollution. (Starting with how much damage mining does to gather metals for coins and also paper and plastic for cash)
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
BitcoinCleanup is now in the top 5 Google search results for "cleanup bitcoin"! (5th place - at least for me - in some places in the world it is still on page 2).

This is massive work guys. Let's keep up the momentum.  Smiley

That forum factoid slot is really helping, but I could use some banners on other prominent websites as well.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
Another warrior has joined in the fight against GreenPeace and Co.: Meet Bitcoin Reserve.

I'll be happy to collaborate with them during the coming weeks.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
I am thinking about how I can put the roughly $100 in donations in advertising.

MellowAds directly sells ad space for bitcoins, but the battle is currently on Twitter, so let's keep it there.

Maybe I could buy some Twitter ads with a prepaid $100 card if they allow me to do that... I mean why wouldn't they? Elon's Twitter is desperate for advertisement money that they will let practically any advertiser in at this point.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
Soon I will remove the mailing list. Nobody uses it anyway, and I haven't sent a single message from it. I think that would be better for everyone, and I was already advised to do this. Just a heads up.

There might also be a few minor wording changes, but everything else will stay more or less the same.

As I promised, these adjustments have been implemented.

And the social media share image has been updated to show an actual Hulk.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
But the default was Showing results for bitcoin cleanup

Google's algorithm checks the first few results for slightly different terms and suggest those if the terms you type yield results in the front page with low domain authority.
member
Activity: 280
Merit: 30
Google search Bitcoincleanup.com
and the 1st site that pops up is https://cleanupbitcoin.I'MNOTBACKLINGKINGTHIS.com/
Funny enough your site is not even listed.
I know your feedback says you're a POS-troll, and that seems to be the case here.
Google indexes and shows Bitcoincleanup.com just fine:

Nope,

on Google.com
when I search Bitcoincleanup.com
Showing results for bitcoin cleanup
With the results I said.

There is a link below the top , that says Search instead for bitcoincleanup.com
now if I click that link I get the results your image showed.

But the default was Showing results for bitcoin cleanup

Seems to be a game afoot at Google Search.  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
So you might want to get donations to pay google, if you expect your site to hold any water.  Wink

Working on that - trying to get big-DA crypto websites to do-follow link to my site.

Yes, my site is indexed by Google, it's just has too low of a DA to complete with all the bullshit that's on the first page.

BitcoinCleanup has a DA of 8 and 22 link-back websites, according to Ahrefs

cleanupbitcoin has a DA of 41 and 4.5K link-back websites

^-- nearly all of those link-back websites are news dispatches from May or September.

So it sucks, unless I kick some news reporting sites' collective ass and make them cover my story, things are going to stay like this for a while.

No, it does not mean I'm wasting my time (besides, who reads old news stories anyway?)
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1362
Fun fact: The man whose funding all this duplicity is the former Ripple Labs CEO.

This is the company that makes the altcoin XRP.

In case you didn't know, XRP's proof of consensus is not using PoW or PoS, it's using some kinda "proof of bank" - which I call because its using servers owned by several banks to keep track of the blockchain and only those servers are allowed to contribute blocks.

A cryptocurrency mogul is funding an environment org to destroy Bitcoin (proof of work).

Let that sink in your head.

What hypocrisy, isn't it?

It makes me believe that he has something to gain by screwing around with Proof of Work - at this point its all speculation (because I don't know whether he still owns Ripple stock), but perhaps Ripple has some profit to gain from this kind of switch.

You guys know what to do. Send his campaign funds to a black hole and support bitcoincleanup.com. Medium seems to be a good grassroots vector for that, from my experimenting.

Funny that, a "cryptocurrency" who is in bed with the FIAT financial system, Bitcoin is still
seen as the thread - they are still worried.

In case you didn't know, XRP's proof of consensus is not using PoW or PoS, it's using some kinda "proof of bank"




How many altcoins are scams? Plenty. What makes this "mogul" better than the shitcoin creators that run with the money? The fact he's staying for more?
Most altcoin creators don't care about bitcoin, or, if they care, all they care is to get some of its "market share".

Unfair competition, by any means, in this case even funding Greenpeace for a false narrative is just one more facet of the "game". Ripple cannot lose anything, it already have its "reputation" amongst bitcoiners. They can win by getting Bitcoin down or they can lose, but the loss will only make Greenpeace look bad, not them. So pretty much a win-win situation, all done with some pocket money.

From what I've read (didn't double check though) there are (former?) Greenpeace members who understood the truth, but I fear we need more than one or just a few. All this crap has the potential to do worse than only hurt bitcoin (as if that wouldn't be enough), it'll make Greenpeace lose its already diminished credibility.

I used to own some Ripple years ago but got rid of it when I realised that they were closely
tied up with the banks.

Wouldn't that be some coup for Bitcoincleanup to have those Greenpeace members
willing to share their thoughts about Greenpeace's attack of Bitcoin
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Google search Bitcoincleanup.com
and the 1st site that pops up is https://cleanupbitcoin.I'MNOTBACKLINGKINGTHIS.com/
Funny enough your site is not even listed.
I know your feedback says you're a POS-troll, and that seems to be the case here.
Google indexes and shows Bitcoincleanup.com just fine:
Image loading...
member
Activity: 280
Merit: 30
Soon I will remove the mailing list. Nobody uses it anyway, and I haven't sent a single message from it. I think that would be better for everyone, and I was already advised to do this. Just a heads up.

There might also be a few minor wording changes, but everything else will stay more or less the same.


You might want to monitor your traffic bandwidth to see if you are getting enough hits to justify wasting your money.  Wink

FYI:
Google search Bitcoincleanup.com
and the 1st site that pops up is https://cleanupbitcoin.com/
Funny enough your site is not even listed.
So you might want to get donations to pay google, if you expect your site to hold any water.  Wink

legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
Soon I will remove the mailing list. Nobody uses it anyway, and I haven't sent a single message from it. I think that would be better for everyone, and I was already advised to do this. Just a heads up.

There might also be a few minor wording changes, but everything else will stay more or less the same.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
For those of you who don't know, I launched an alt of Bitcoin Core to "Change the Code" to use Proof of Stake, solely because Greenpeace and co. were too lazy to do so  Grin

Yes, all I did was change constants, but that's what the commit messages say FTW!

So next time someone tells you about ChangeTheCode, just send them to: https://github.com/bitcoincleanup/bitcoin and tell them to run a PoS node.  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 6382
Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!
In case you didn't know, XRP's proof of consensus is not using PoW or PoS, it's using some kinda "proof of bank"

Well, the latest CSW trial has at least shown that, with enough money and persuasion, one can get plenty of people lie for him (knowingly or not, that doesn't matter).
Hence proof of bank is by far inferior to proof of work. But there's nothing new in this, isn't it?

A cryptocurrency mogul is funding an environment org to destroy Bitcoin (proof of work).

Let that sink in your head.

What hypocrisy, isn't it?

How many altcoins are scams? Plenty. What makes this "mogul" better than the shitcoin creators that run with the money? The fact he's staying for more?
Most altcoin creators don't care about bitcoin, or, if they care, all they care is to get some of its "market share".

Unfair competition, by any means, in this case even funding Greenpeace for a false narrative is just one more facet of the "game". Ripple cannot lose anything, it already have its "reputation" amongst bitcoiners. They can win by getting Bitcoin down or they can lose, but the loss will only make Greenpeace look bad, not them. So pretty much a win-win situation, all done with some pocket money.

From what I've read (didn't double check though) there are (former?) Greenpeace members who understood the truth, but I fear we need more than one or just a few. All this crap has the potential to do worse than only hurt bitcoin (as if that wouldn't be enough), it'll make Greenpeace lose its already diminished credibility.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
In case you didn't know, XRP's proof of consensus is not using PoW or PoS, it's using some kinda "proof of bank"
There's no proof of bank. There are only two mechanisms. Proof-of-Work, and fiat.  Wink

A cryptocurrency mogul is funding an environment org to destroy Bitcoin (proof of work).
At this point, I'm going to argue that Ripple, XRP, or whatever the hell it's named, is a cryptocurrency. Usage of cryptography doesn't make electronic money cryptocurrency. Consensus, and monetary policy do. Cryptocurrencies that depend on a leading team to operate are not decentralized, immutable. They're just fiat.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
Fun fact: The man whose funding all this duplicity is the former Ripple Labs CEO.

This is the company that makes the altcoin XRP.

In case you didn't know, XRP's proof of consensus is not using PoW or PoS, it's using some kinda "proof of bank" - which I call because its using servers owned by several banks to keep track of the blockchain and only those servers are allowed to contribute blocks.

A cryptocurrency mogul is funding an environment org to destroy Bitcoin (proof of work).

Let that sink in your head.

What hypocrisy, isn't it?

It makes me believe that he has something to gain by screwing around with Proof of Work - at this point its all speculation (because I don't know whether he still owns Ripple stock), but perhaps Ripple has some profit to gain from this kind of switch.

You guys know what to do. Send his campaign funds to a black hole and support bitcoincleanup.com. Medium seems to be a good grassroots vector for that, from my experimenting.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
And how it’s blindly cited again and again over 100 times by other publications.
Nice catch. It's just another indication of their weak and disappointing tactic. Using already debunked papers and arguments to justify their movement. Pathetic.

For what's worth, energy spent per transaction, as I've already said, is a pointless and misunderstood measure. A median on-chain transaction costs essentially zero energy to be created, essentially zero energy to be signed it, and takes very little storage to save it in hard drives across the world. The energy spent by the process of including this transaction, along with many others, into a block should not be confused with the energy that was taken to make this transaction. The energy that is spent in the Bitcoin network, is primarily used to protect the network. Once that is done, transactions can be confirmed. There might as well be no unconfirmed transactions. Just energy spent for network protection.

Furthermore, one on-chain transaction doesn't equate with one transaction. Nearly infinite transactions can be made with just one on-chain transaction, and two computers connected within a payment channel. Again, this projects on how pointless it is to measure the energy that is potentially spent for one Bitcoin transaction.

This is the state of science, journalism, activism and millions of marketing budget in 2022. Its sad, but i think we can also use the opportunity to debunk their arguments directly. If thats all they got.
It's unfair, I know. But their 5 million dollars are going to end sometime. Until then, we debunk.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
[...]

I'm not going to agree to this, despite of their good intentions. Why is this needed?
Our app requires read and write permissions from Twitter to function.

I am not quite sure, but it says on the front page that this thing can be self-hosted somehow to make it "run without trust" - they provide the source code anyway so you'd easily be able to verify this.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 421
武士道
It’s funny and sad that they’re using an already debunked1, flawed and paywalled-link2 paper as „Fact“ Nr. 2. And how it’s blindly cited again and again over 100 times by other publications.

1 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335457532_Could_Bitcoin_Emissions_Push_Global_Warming_Above_2_C
2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-018-0321-8
Can be accessed here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328581842_Bitcoin_emissions_alone_could_push_global_warming_above_2C


To debunk this bs again(already been done by Dittmar and Praktiknjo, 2019) and not let them get away with manipulative unscientific lies this easily - we first need to look at the methodology used, described on the last page:

Quote from: (Dittmar and Praktiknjo, 2019)
Quote from: (Mora et al., 2018)
Amount of CO2e produced by Bitcoin usage.
[…]
To assess the carbon footprint of the global Bitcoin Network, using as reference the year 2017, we used the following approach.

We started by compiling a list of current hardware suitable for Bitcoin and their energy efficiencies (hashes per electricity consumed, Supplementary Table 1). To each block mined in 2017 (data from https://blocktrail.com), we assigned a random hardware from Supplementary Table 1 and multiplied the number of hashes required to solve the block by the energy efficiency of the random hardware; this returned the amount of electricity consumed to solve the given block.
To estimate Bitcoin electricity consumption in 2017, Mora et al. assume that each Bitcoin block was randomly mined on hardware included in a self-compiled list of 62 devices. As this list contains many old devices with high energy intensities, the resulting average hardware energy intensity and electricity consumption of Bitcoin mining are approximately ten times higher than other estimates (see the Supplementary Information).
So they basically used an outdated list of hardware3, which already resulted in an completely inaccurate estimation of electricity consumption at the time of the paper. And then tried to estimate electricity consumption up until 2100 based on 2017 hardware. Totally ignoring basics about hardware development, scientific methodologies and common sense. Any output coming from this model can already only result wrongly with exaggerated estimates and were just a few lines in.

3 https://github.com/Camilo-Mora/Bitcoin/blob/master/Randi_TableS1.csv


But lets continue, because it doesnt stop here:

Quote from:  (Dittmar and Praktiknjo, 2019)
Quote from:  (Mora et al., 2018)
Projected usage and carbon emissions from Bitcoin.

[…]
We studied the carbon emissions of Bitcoin if it follows the adoption trends of other broadly used technologies.
[…]
The first year of usage for each technology was set to one, to allow comparison of trends among technologies (narrow grey lines in Fig. 1b). For each year, we calculated the average and lower and upper quantiles of per cent population using all technologies and applied a logistic model to such trends (the red line and red shading in Fig. 1b). The projected trends of technology usage adoption were used to estimate likely Bitcoin usage assuming a global total of ~314.2 billion cashless transactions. We used only cashless transactions that are likely to occur in places where infrastructure is already in place for the usage of Bitcoin as a reference (for example, we do not assume that Bitcoin will replace transactions using fiat currency). The CO2e emissions of projected Bitcoin usage were estimated using the CO2e emissions for Bitcoin transactions in 2017 as a reference. We randomly sampled blocks mined in 2017 until their total number of transactions were equal to the projected number of transactions, then we added the CO2e emissions from computing such randomly selected blocks. The approach was repeated 1,000 times.

… we believe that the analysis of Mora et al. is flawed because their methodology ignores fundamental constraints imposed by the transaction-processing capacity of the Bitcoin network.

The diffusion scenarios presented by Mora et al. for Bitcoin transactions eventually assume ~314.2 billion Bitcoin-related cashless transactions per year. The corresponding throughput of roughly ~10,000 transactions per second would be at least two orders of magnitude higher than Bitcoins current transaction limits.
[…]
Mora et al. neither mention Bitcoin's transaction limit nor outline how it will be resolved to make their projection plausible. Instead, the applied methodology circumvents the scalability problem by implicitly reparameterizing the Bitcoin protocol to decrease the block interval and increase the number of blocks until the resulting transactions match the number of projected transactions. As the authors sample blocks from their base-year estimates, results are equal to those obtained from scaling electricity consumption in 2017 using projected transactions. Transaction growth is implicitly the sole driver for the electricity growth scenarios presented by Mora et al. However, neither in a reparameterized Bitcoin protocol, nor in the current protocol, is electricity consumption proportional to the transaction rate. Instead, Bitcoins electricity consumption is exclusively proportional to the hashrate, which is the computational capacity of the Bitcoin network. Hashrate growth, in turn, is driven by complex and mutually dependent relationships between mining rewards, transaction fees, hardware energy efficiency, electricity prices and the Bitcoin market price. Increases in throughput capacity, such as with SegWit, translate to a proportional decrease in electricity consumption per transaction, as the electricity consumption of blocks does not scale with the transaction rate.
They assumed ~314.2 billion yearly Bitcoin transactions and not even mentioning a block size limit anywhere. And then modeling future electricity consumption solely based on a transaction rate that cant even happen in practice. Basically basing the whole model on another protocol that doesnt even exist in reality.

This passed peer review, academia, one of the worlds biggest scientific journals and an army of journalists.


Its getting more and more cringe to read this paper, but theres also this:
Quote from:  (Dittmar and Praktiknjo, 2019)
In a recent commentary, Mora et al.' hypothesize that cumulative GHG emissions of Bitcoin alone could amount to ~231.4GtC within the next 16yr (on the basis of their median scenario), pushing global warming above 2°C. To put these numbers in context, the carbon budget of ~231.4GtC is equivalent to ~63 yr of emissions from global power generation at the rate observed in 2017 (that is, ~3.7 GtC). Bitcoin mining is undoubtedly electricity intensive. However, the electricity demand scenarios calculated by Mora et al. seem unlikely, as Bitcoin-related emissions would entail a tripling of global electricity generation within the next five years (see Supplement). We regard infrastructure bottlenecks and soaring electricity prices as barriers to such growth levels. For example, global electric power capacity increased by only ~ 17% over the past five years.
Spoiler alert, electricity generation didnt triple from 2017-2022(so the model is already unusable again by another factor) and idk if its worth it to go on when the whole paper has already been debunked long ago.


This is the state of science, journalism, activism and millions of marketing budget in 2022. Its sad, but i think we can also use the opportunity to debunk their arguments directly. If thats all they got.
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