Topic: Laurentia Pool - BAD risk for miners - page 6. (Read 2331 times)

2429 blocks is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things, the pools in my analysis each of them probably found 100000% more blocks than your pool did ( lazy to do the maths but my estimate was rather conservative i suppose), what i wrote above is a simple statistical point, it is not what I think, the numbers state that the chances for your pool to find an empty or orphan block are slim to nothing, it is like someone who drives once a year around his empty farm and brags about the fact that he got into less car accidents than Michael Schumacher, thinking he has better driving skills when in reality it is merely statistics and probability doing their thing.


I understand very well that mathematically empty blocks MUST happen unless the time it takes to download a block, verify transactions, deal with the mempool, build a block =< zero ms, which is not true even if you claim so, even if all pools run on the same LAN with block size being 1byte time will never be =< 0, there will always be empty blocks and there will always be orphan blocks, this is unfortunately how the math works, your words and attempts to deny these facts mean nothing, nobody in their right mind will think that pools purposely mine empty blocks when fees alone are 2btc at times, except for the obvious use of covert asicboost and the other reasons I explained in my topic which you used to advertise your pool  .


Lol there is no "maybe", if you know the time it takes to download a block all the way to reconstructing it, you can tell EXACTLY how many empty blocks could be found without anyone doing it purposely, people have been studying statistics for hundreds of years not for you to randomly state that "less than half a dozen", i explained in a great detail what is concidered reasonable and what formula to use to figure that out, read the topic again and actually try to learn something.


Well all i did was use Siméon Denis Poisson's formulas, if you have a problem with it complain to him (sadly he passed away a few hundred years back or so).


Was reffering to someone else you called stupid, was the first comment of yours i read when i joined the forum, i knew from the start what type of a person you likely were, time has only proved my intial guess.


On a side note (Again), this topic doesn't belong to the mining board by any means, you are accusing another pool of something, it only fits reputation/service discussion since it is not your pool you are advertising.

Going to put you on ignore for a few months, hopefully you would learn how to communicate with respect and manners by then.

Adiós.

I moved the reply to where it belongs:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54514603

That makes sense, this also answers a part of the question by the way, thanks for pointing that out.


You too.

I understood - and in all of my replies, I never said I was addressing your question - why? because I knew I could not answer it, I simply was addressing how easy it is to be completely aware of whether your blocks found are being dropped/lost/orphaned by the pool.

each time I commented you would say I failed to address your question - I was never trying to

as long as no one is mad here I am good. I wish I had your hash rate btw - maybe by next year

happy mining!

Surely if you mined on a small PPLNS pool then you would care if a block was missed due to it having a massive impact on your earnings along with everyone else on the pool.

The bigger the pool the less likelyhood of it having an impact on you, especially if the pool is PPS.

But the danger is, it is all relative, if a big pool is losing blocks due to bad code or infrastructure, or you build a big pool based on bad code or infrastructure then it does become a big deal. Because a big pool will lose lots of blocks, or at least potentially a string of them before its noticed and something is done about it.

Fact is some big pools have lost lots of blocks due to either bad code or due to not being aware of what is going on down to the minutiae of information or not having the log files to check back, or just not caring. The history is there to see.

I can understand it not being a big concern on your part because of your mining strategy, although I would question why anyone would continue to mine on a solo pool that has demonstrably lost blocks on more than one occassion. The potential loss of earnings is just too high.

I don't know how you arrived at the conclusion that I think you were attacking me. I never said that. you misunderstood my previous post, so did NFW, surprisingly and ironically only Kano understood it, so I had to explain myself, I am not attacking anybody either, all good. 

The rest of my reply is general information for everyone, not pointed directly to you.

Thanks.

easy man - I was not attacking you here you said you would be unaware, I was only pointing out that it is easy to tell if a block is found or lost is all so unaware is a choice is all. and I do agree in a larger pool that is pps, it wouldn't matter that much.

I never said i had no way to tell, I said I don't care, there is a difference.

When I mine solo I set awesomeminer to send me 2 different emails when a block is found but I don't do that when I mine to a pool (mostly fpps/pps+) I don't bother, most people don't I suppose, and that was my concern when NotFuzzyWarm said that pool never lost a block, anyway the answer is now clear, as for pps pools, I am pretty sure they operate on the right server and with the proper code, highly unlikely that nowadays pps pools lose a block for any reason but "bad luck", despite the fees running a pool on fpps has a lot of risks, losing blocks is something they would never want happen.

Also, one thing to keep in mind that losing a block due to bad luck and not technical deficiencies has to do how many blocks a pool is subject to find in the first place, Kano pool hardly finds any blocks on the grand scheme of things, I even saw him brag about not mining an empty block in my empty blocks analysis topic , I didn't want to comment on his post in that section to not trigger him there and make members of that section suffer reading his disrespectful replies, it's enough that members of mining board are suffering.  

what Kano seems to don't know or ignore is that the probability of him hitting an orphan/empty block is directly related to his chances of hitting a block in the first place, given the tiny hashrate he has compared to the large pools it makes sense why he is unlikely to hit an empty or orphan block, of course, with all technical aspects like having the right code, server, and connection being equal.

Think about it this way, what is the probability of a coin landing on its side when you toss it 1 time vs 1000 time?, Kano said the time to verify and construct a block is less than 2 seconds, so applying "cumulative distribution function aka CDF of the exponential distribution" on his numbers we get:

exp(−1/60)−exp(−2/60) = 0.016 or 1.6%, all miners combined are expected to hit a block between 1 and 2 seconds at a probability of 1.6%, what is Kano's hashrate % compared to the whole network?

90,000,000TH vs 10,241THs ? 0.011%, the chances of collision with another pool and hitting an empty block are close to 0, so not finding orphan or empty blocks is fairly based on his tiny little share of the total network hashrate.

To be fair, of course, this doesn't negate that fact his pool's infrastructure is good enough to maintain his tiny 0.011% chances at 100% whereby he doesn't lose the blocks he hardly finds, so that's good overall, but it doesn't make his pool better than those pools that lose blocks due to "bad luck", and regardless of anything I highly doubt he runs a better code or owns a better server than those multi-billion $ pools, but it's good to have a few small pools around, in fact, if he wasn't such a jerk - I would point at least 2-3ph to his pool, but with his attitude, not a chance in hell.

agreed - it is the pools responsibility but who wants to mine on a pool that consistently drops/loses blocks? you said you had no way to even tell. my point was it is very easy to tell. but yes, for pps it would be moot unless the pool was dropping a lot of them and thus lowered their pps rate because of that. not all pools pay the same pps rates.

-ck is a partner, you seem to be one to put him on a pedestal just to attempt to bring him down, let alone anyone else you decide to publicly slander. Your comments only continue to prove your issue is with an individual and not our product.

Our pool is live, we're just responsible enough not to dupe miners into losses just to make a show. We're already drafting plans to open with our 66PH to push a blockfind in about 9-10 days then have the group failover to maximize rewards for them through an adjustment period.

I still think if you put all this energy into marketing your own product you'd be more successful with your pool. But you seem want expend that energy to attempt to intimidate and belittle others, even those in your own "camp".

Still I invite you to post and everyone to post in our thread constructive feedback but obviously it's in Kano's best interest here to promote our product as "bad" which is just conjecture and personal opinion due to his disdain for our partner.

This one line answers the question, the rest of the wall of text was nothing but a waste of the forum resources and more proof of your terrible attitude for everyone else to see.

@nNotFuzzyWarm , @Stryfe

Both replies didn't answer my question, it is safe to assume that most people mine on pps pools (given the hashrate of those large pools), people pay 4% in fees to mine on Viabtc, why would they waste time or even bother if the pool loses a block?it is the pool responsablity to ensure blocks go through.

The point i was making is that many non-solo pools could be losing a ton of blocks, but because miners don't care those blocks go unoticed, now based on kano's answer (assuming he is telling the truth) miners will know if a block was stale or rejected, and without providing such features, one can't say (i never lost a block) because they could very well lose blocks and nobody would notice.

Hope i made myself clear, Thanks both.

well 2 of the 3 times I have had it, it was simply someone else also submitted at the same time and thus their block accepted not mine, was on a pps pool so not any noticeable impact to my payment - the 3rd has never been fully explained to my satisfaction and is another reason why I do not use that pool anymore, it was pplns so does affect my payout - while it also affects everyone else as well so the impact is spread out.

My only point is that is very easy to see when you got a block - do most care in a pplns or pps pool? I would guess not, they worry about the pool as a whole perhaps. But no matter how you cut it, any lost block affects all versions of payouts, one way or another.

Pointless and irrelevant comment.

Every work sent to every miner, about once every 30 seconds, says in it what pool the block is for and the address it will pay to.

If you think that pools are randomly changing this and no one has ever noticed it, you clearly have no understanding for how mining actually works.

Anyone can look at the work they are mining, and you can even watch it go by with a network monitor program - in ascii for the identification of most pools.

When a block is found on the network, it will contain that text, and everyone on the planet will see it, so know which pool found it.
That's how all the block explorer sites work.

It's a ridiculous scenario you seem to want to be true, and though you may find common in the scam coin section of the forum, not here on this pool that has been around for almost 6 years:

The miner itself will also know it has found a block, so I guess you think it's a game to try and hide a block and hope no one will notice?

On top of that, mine is also the only pool that immediately reports blocks on the web site and to the miners, even if it is stale, orphan, rejected, valid or otherwise.
You can see the original code for that in the public git.
Even ck's fuck up recently would show up as a block on my pool, if the user was mining here, and I was stupid enough to allow the bitcoind to get behind on the network - however, that negligence wouldn't happen here.

Trying understanding something first ...


Aside to the ignorant person who is the subject of this thread: I'll find time soon, to show the git and forum post proof of 4 blocks lost by ck and the scenario of another related to it.

Your pool doesn't exist, and your god (ck) charges more than twice my pool fees ... so you should take that up with him ...

You should be aware of it. Even if not mining solo, lost blocks mean lost income for you (unless on a PPS pool). Pretty sure that you do care about that...

Any decent miner monitoring software such as AwesomeMiner can be setup to notify you and record when one of your miners thinks it has found a block. Grant you, because I do not sit all day glued to a monitor I usually find out first via Discord or the pool thread but unlike Stryfe I have been lucky enough to never have a miner report it found a block that wasn't reported by the pool as well.

whether solo or not, you will know if you found a block - my miners have found blocks numerous times on other pools and I know it each time, I have also lost blocks (I think 3 times now). When reaching out to the pool operators each time, they are able to tell me why the block was lost. This is true for Slush/ViaBTC and Gos.cx (the three pools where I have lost blocks). This is irregardless of whether it is solo/pps/pplns.

While it most definitely affects your reward in solo mining, it does in pplns as well. PPS, I would say zero effect, except the pool might be changing their pps rate if they keep losing blocks.

That is my two cents.

I've found neither of them to be disrespectful to me personally.

How can you be so sure? "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence," no?

The reason why people were aware of ckpool losing the 10th of May block for an example was the fact that the miner was mining solo, in other words, I own a lot of mining gears, I only care about the shares of 2-3 of them that are mining solo, the rest of them could be finding blocks and pool is losing some of them and I am totally unaware of it, I don't pretend to know more than you do about this subject, not making any claims, I am simply asking you a question because I can't ask Kano due to his obvious filthy attitude.  


I also think his attitude has a lot to do with this, I rather mine to a pool whose operator would respond to me with total respect and patience regardless of the risk, rather than mining on a "better" pool owned by someone who is disrespectful., but that is just me.

Defamation and personal attacks will not be allowed in our thread. Feel free to voice constructive concerns there or to us directly.

That said Laurentia Pool is not "bad risk" to any user. This thread should be removed or at minimum re titled.

No, it's point is to bring up valid concerns and allow you to address them. eg, Our concern is and your reply should be < we have done x y z to address that point>. Not a blanket 'nothing to see here, move along'.

You refuse to do so in your main thread so per your request another thread was created to do it.

You are providing a service that people will be spending a good amount of money to use in terms of hardware, power, infra, etc. I would think that said people will like to be aware of any and all 'gotcha's' and know how you have addressed them. That includes past histories of the developers.

No investors, we are 100% self funded. Giving us the control to achieve with out inhibition outside of limiting all risk possible to those poised to mine our pool.

-ck was/is the driving catalyst for all previous and current testing.

All our work makes this thread redundant and baseless as it's more aligned to discredit an individual but in place attacks our product.