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Topic: Leaked Chainalysis Roadmap Angers Bitcoin Community (Read 1422 times)

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
This is a good argument for a secondary chain, such as Litecoin, with a market volume that can support transferring back and forth between BTC and LTC to serve as an additional layer of obfuscation.

Off-chain mixing, such as using exchanges as you propose, assumes the exchanges are not compromised.

Mixing must be done on-chain, if you want genuine opacity instead of half-assed obfuscation using trusted 3rd parties.
legendary
Activity: 3206
Merit: 1069
Andreas Antonopolous said that lack of anonymity need to be fixed in Bitcoin

Not possible with Bitcoin, checkout Cryptonote protocol

how so, there wasn't an anon fueature coming for bitcoin too? dark wallet or somethign it was called, if i remember correctly?

at worst case scenario you could always fork and do it forcefully
full member
Activity: 411
Merit: 100
If you haven't yet torified your wallet yet you may want to consider doing so after reading this story.

Full story: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/20182/leaked-chainalysis-roadmap-angers-bitcoin-community/

Well, for a daily user , It wont change anything. People who knows Bitcoin already know its not anonymous. If anyone thinks Bitcoin offers great anonimity, I should use for it x,y,z jobs , then he/she makes a BIG mistake.

If you need that kind of anonimity , use mixer services or use anon coins.
Or use exchanges' sites:
-Deposit some BTC
-Exchange for altcoins
-Withdraw to another exchange
-Exchange for BTC
-Withdraw BTC

I believe, for majority of Bitcoin users we dont need anonimity, unless they deal with illegal stuff like tax evasion, drugs sale
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1222
brb keeping up with the Kardashians
This is a good argument for a secondary chain, such as Litecoin, with a market volume that can support transferring back and forth between BTC and LTC to serve as an additional layer of obfuscation.
Q7
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
For me not having anonymity is not a big issue the least. Except for those having involve in illegal stuff or sort. Thus chainalysis if you ask me is just providing service on top of what is already there. If you really need to hide yourselves there is always a way either mix the coins around, trade them for items and then buy back the coins, so to put it, there is always a way.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
Waste of time
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
Interesting, I was wondering what their next move would be, let's see how this works out, if you ask me, this is finally an excuse to see how resistance cryptocurrencies are to government and corporate espionage.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1001
In Cryptography We Trust
If weren't for those blockchain properties this type of service would be illegal, it's a huge blow on financial privacy, if banks were doing these kind of stuff, selling yours or your company's financial information to anyone with a few bucks in their pocket they would face huge fines.

This just makes evident the problems with bitcoin's privacy and it has to be addressed quickly.

Completely agree with you. If somebody would be doing something similar with our fiat banking accounts there would be a huge outrage.

As far as I can understand this service is disrupting the network conducting a Sybil attack operating hundreds of "network nodes" in an atempt to map transactions to single IP addresses. The theory behind this is that if you control a significant proportion of the network's nodes you will be harvesting directly transactions-ip data in your nodes and inferring statistically other relations using your database as well as the network propagation patterns of transactions not initially relayed by one of your nodes.

Probably the best solution if you don't want your IP address to be associated to your transactions online is to torify your bitcoin client.

EDIT:

More on this topic here: http://www.coindesk.com/chainalysis-ceo-denies-launching-sybil-attack-on-bitcoin-network/
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
I'm not denying the influence of the cypherpunk movement on bitcoin and Satoshi, and even though I admit it is likely, actually it is not clear at all whether Satoshi and Nick Szabo are the same person/collective or not, but I guess it is not really relevant, people can change their minds.

I know that cryptonote is taking anonymity to the extreme, but isn't that pretty much already possible with cash (obviously not considering the practical advantages of digital money)? Instead public register of transaction with initial but not definitive anonimty without central authority was not possible before Bitcoin, if Satoshi was such a liberist, why didn't he create Cryptonote in the first place? If Bitcoin is simply a step leading to cryptonote (but in fact its contraray) and a prototype, why release it?

Also I didn't say that every follower of the austrian school is a fanatic, but here in the cryptocurrency environment those are the ones who are the most fervent. By the way, to be clear, I refer to socialism in a marxist way, it is not basic private property that needs to be abolished, rather private property intended as capital stolen by lobbyists and capitalists from the workers. Instead, talking about anarchy, sadly you are right, it is a nice dream, but indeed a dream, it would require human beings to be flawless to work.

PS: you got another thing right, I am an university student. I've heard many people telling me that growing old makes you shift from a socialist and altruist point of view to a more liberist and individualist one.

I was born liberist and will die that way.  Age has nothing to do with it.  Some people never grow out of wishful thinking, others never suffer that enfeeblement in the first place.

Szabo gave us the master plan in the mid 90s.  BTC is the first step.  BTC does one thing (solves longstanding distributed consensus/trust problem) and does it well. 

XMR is the next stage of The Plan.  Bitcoin's transparent blockchain and Monero's opaque one are complementary, like salt and pepper.

Austrian praxis is the best way to deal with the imperfect world where supply never meets demand and people are irrational jerks.  It is a bottom up method of approximated utopia, in contrast to the top-down perfectionism of the Marxists/statists and anarchist ideologues.

Getting back on topic, let's see how Bitcoin's antifragility deals with Chainalysis' shenanigans.  Mutating into Monero is one way for crypto currency to route around such putative damage...what will be next?   Cool
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
This really is nothing new. People track transactions and stalk wallets all the time. This just makes it easier for governments to do it - which would actually be a good selling point for Bitcoin.

You just need to know how to spend and how to manage your wallets.

legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1204
The revolution will be digital
How can someone link my address to me if I don't give any relation? What does chainanalysis do?

Nothing. These are just media frenzy BS. If u can mix coins properly your anonymity will always remain as it is. I am hoping DarkWallet (by Amir Taaki) will make things better.
sr. member
Activity: 433
Merit: 250
Crypto Angel

Students of the Austrian school endure the discipline of praxis, a harsh master which keeps us as far away as possible from being "fanatics."

OTOH, anarcho-socialists, with their feverish quixotic fantasies of abolishing the universal institutions of the State and private property, are the very definition of "fanatic."

Bitcoin will break the chains of central banking by requiring where appropriate such institutions to be honest and at all times provably solvent.

Bitcoin's blockchain technology has also delivered in the form of Monero near-perfect privacy, which is indeed a Liberist wet dream made real.

If you had any awareness of the cypherpunk milieu from which Nick Szabo/Satoshi Nakamoto emerged, you wouldn't indulge yourself in daydreams in which they are even remotely friendly towards Black Flag buffoonery like anarcho-socialism.

Enjoy the rest of your sophomore year.  Uni is good times for sure!   Wink

I'm not denying the influence of the cypherpunk movement on bitcoin and Satoshi, and even though I admit it is likely, actually it is not clear at all whether Satoshi and Nick Szabo are the same person/collective or not, but I guess it is not really relevant, people can change their minds.

I know that cryptonote is taking anonymity to the extreme, but isn't that pretty much already possible with cash (obviously not considering the practical advantages of digital money)? Instead public register of transaction with initial but not definitive anonimty without central authority was not possible before Bitcoin, if Satoshi was such a liberist, why didn't he create Cryptonote in the first place? If Bitcoin is simply a step leading to cryptonote (but in fact its contraray) and a prototype, why release it?

Also I didn't say that every follower of the austrian school is a fanatic, but here in the cryptocurrency environment those are the ones who are the most fervent. By the way, to be clear, I refer to socialism in a marxist way, it is not basic private property that needs to be abolished, rather private property intended as capital stolen by lobbyists and capitalists from the workers. Instead, talking about anarchy, sadly you are right, it is a nice dream, but indeed a dream, it would require human beings to be flawless to work.

PS: you got another thing right, I am an university student. I've heard many people telling me that growing old makes you shift from a socialist and altruist point of view to a more liberist and individualist one. I don't know if it will be the same for me, probably yes, but to me it looks an awful lot like a war between poor and poorer. The system makes you hate each other, makes you think that the others just want to steal from you your hard earned money, and it enjoys itself watching the show while eating popcorns. Makes you think that everyone is equal, that everyone started from the same point, and if you have more money/success/wealth it is just because you are better than the others (or you are favored by the gods, if we want to go back to good old calvinism), and they deserve no mercy for their idleness. Instead I think that life is not a fair race. Some start far away from the finishing line, some start very close. Some have long legs, some have short legs. You may finish first and be proud, but if you only took the time to look back, you would see that you just run a couple of meters. You may finish last, and waste your life trying to figure out what is wrong in you, being blamed for your inferiority, ignoring the fact that everyone else started already ahead. You may kick your opponent  and make him fall because the public tells you to. In the end, all your medals will not follow you into the grave. The only important thing was the race itself, enjoying it. You wasted your time trying to build distance between you and the other runners, running as fast as you could, fearing that they might surpass you. And why? Because someone who doesn't even take part to the race, loves watching you fight and sells for profit your spilled blood told you to. If only you had realized the others were as frightened, manipulated, misled and confused as you! It would have been much better to walk slowly together towards the finishing line, helping each other. Justice, not equality. Am I really that naive?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
You've got to love how hyper-liberists and fanatics of the austrian school are only now starting to realize that they have helped creating and promoting their worst nightmare, thinking it was their wet dream made real.

Anyway, this was pretty obvious since the beginning, that's why I've never ever considered Satoshi a liberist, rather an anarcho-socialist. This is also what will make Bitcoin huge and widely, universally and officially accepted. It is a perfect system: free from any control or opposition, and completely transparent and consultable by everyone, for fiscal controls by authorities and "hot" money control by the people and security forces (money connected to illegal activities, public money, etc.).

Bitcoin will break the shackles of central banks that imprison politics, and will give that power back to the people.

Students of the Austrian school endure the discipline of praxis, a harsh master which keeps us as far away as possible from being "fanatics."

OTOH, anarcho-socialists, with their feverish quixotic fantasies of abolishing the universal institutions of the State and private property, are the very definition of "fanatic."

Bitcoin will break the chains of central banking by requiring where appropriate such institutions to be honest and at all times provably solvent.

Bitcoin's blockchain technology has also delivered in the form of Monero near-perfect privacy, which is indeed a Liberist wet dream made real.

If you had any awareness of the cypherpunk milieu from which Nick Szabo/Satoshi Nakamoto emerged, you wouldn't indulge yourself in daydreams in which they are even remotely friendly towards Black Flag buffoonery like anarcho-socialism.

Enjoy the rest of your sophomore year.  Uni is good times for sure!   Wink
sr. member
Activity: 433
Merit: 250
Crypto Angel
You've got to love how hyper-liberists and fanatics of the austrian school are only now starting to realize that they have helped creating and promoting their worst nightmare, thinking it was their wet dream made real.

Anyway, this was pretty obvious since the beginning, that's why I've never ever considered Satoshi a liberist, rather an anarcho-socialist. This is also what will make Bitcoin huge and widely, universally and officially accepted. It is a perfect system: free from any control or opposition, and completely transparent and consultable by everyone, for fiscal controls by authorities and "hot" money control by the people and security forces (money connected to illegal activities, public money, etc.).

Bitcoin will break the shackles of central banks and lobbyists that imprison politics, and will give that power back to the people.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
If you haven't yet torified your wallet yet you may want to consider doing so after reading this story.

Full story: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/20182/leaked-chainalysis-roadmap-angers-bitcoin-community/

TOR?  Sure, and how many Sybil attacking exit nodes does Chainalysis and its subsidiary TORnalysis run/compromise/monitor?

Radical transparency is a feature, not a bug, of Bitcoin.

The quest to force Bitcoin's round transparency peg into a square privacy hole is futile.

Stop trying to use the wrong tool for the job, and start using Monero for applications requiring anonymity/unlinkability.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
How can someone link my address to me if I don't give any relation? What does chainanalysis do?
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Andreas Antonopolous said that lack of anonymity need to be fixed in Bitcoin

Not possible with Bitcoin, checkout Cryptonote protocol
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 1014
But we already know that Bitcoin isn't anonymous, in fact everything is recorded for the world to see in fine detail.
Why would a program that simplifies the tracking procedure be shocking to you or anger the community?
Agree 100%, if this is something people don't want (most of them) then probably bitcoin developers will do smth about it. Andreas Antonopolous said that lack of anonymity need to be fixed in Bitcoin
legendary
Activity: 2786
Merit: 1031
If you haven't yet torified your wallet yet you may want to consider doing so after reading this story.

Full story: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/20182/leaked-chainalysis-roadmap-angers-bitcoin-community/
But we already know that Bitcoin isn't anonymous, in fact everything is recorded for the world to see in fine detail.
Why would a program that simplifies the tracking procedure be shocking to you or anger the community?

This should be used as a selling point to regulators too.  If you ever do a KYC, then your info is related to your Bitcoin.  Otherwise you have to use back alley ways of getting bitcoin, which I don't want to do. 

If weren't for those blockchain properties this type of service would be illegal, it's a huge blow on financial privacy, if banks were doing these kind of stuff, selling yours or your company's financial information to anyone with a few bucks in their pocket they would face huge fines.

This just makes evident the problems with bitcoin's privacy and it has to be addressed quickly.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Someone was going to make money off of this one day
The scribd leak says from $179/mo up to $479/mo
http://www.scribd.com/doc/263321318/Chainalysis-Roadmap
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