Ledger doesn't show transaction, it shows up in Electrum. What's going on?

Cricktor

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Quote from: nc50lc on October 18, 2023, 12:05:29 AM

...
BTW, it's been a long time since I read "public address" to refer to "address".
I usually only use it to refer to my addresses that are already shared in public.

You're likely quite right, P2MS is realy rare and uncommon. And Pay-to-PubKey has likely only a relevance for the first few tenthousend blocks until it has been replaced by P2PKH.

In the context of Bitcoin private key, public key and address I like to call the latter "public address", because, well, it's supposed to be public and revealing it is no problem, except if you make it clear it's your Bitcoin address which would allow an attribution of the address to you.

nc50lc

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Quote from: Cricktor on October 17, 2023, 06:07:24 PM

If I remember correctly a private key (that's a 256bit number, idealy random) can derive 6 different address types (7 if you count the rare P2MS type).

It's okay not to count P2MS since it doesn't have an address, just bunch of public keys;
In that sense, count P2PK out as well since it's literally "Pay-to-Pub-Key", just a public key.

BTW, it's been a long time since I read "public address" to refer to "address".
I usually only use it to refer to my addresses that are already shared in public.

Cricktor

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If I remember correctly a private key (that's a 256bit number, idealy random) can derive 6 different address types (7 if you count the rare P2MS type).

Derive an uncompressed public key and use that for the ancient P2PK type "public address" (pay to pubkey)
Derive an uncompressed public key, hash it with SHA256 and RIPEMD160 and you get a P2PKH type public address, those that start with 1... (pay to pubkey hash)
Derive a compressed public key, hash it with SHA256 and RIPEMD160 and you get a P2PKH type public address, those that start with 1... too, and are not the same as no. 2 (pay to pubkey hash)
P2SH or P2WPKH-P2SH, you lock the coins to a hash of a redeem script, which gives you a public address that start with 3... (pay to script hash; nested segwit)
P2WPKH, native Segwit in Bech32 notation gives you the public addresses that usually start with bc1q...
P2TR, Taproot in Bech32m notation gives you the public addresses that start with bc1p...

(I'm simplifying things and the Bech32 part is a bit incorrect, but for the sake of simplicity...)

ContourCool

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Thanks for this info.

I feel sure I've come across these concepts before, but the problem with bitcoin is that... there's SO DARN MUCH to learn, and I have a head kind of like a bucket. It's kind of full, and if I learn more stuff, some of the old stuff has to go.

Appreciate that there's people like you guys who can clarify!

nc50lc

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Quote from: ContourCool on October 16, 2023, 07:26:16 PM

So then, is this guy wrong?

He's not wrong but the article is not contradicting the replies here.

The equivalent to "master private key" that they are talking about is the "master extended key" mentioned in the article.
That master private key is used to derive the wallet's private keys and public keys where the addresses are derived from.

ContourCool

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So then, is this guy wrong?

https://6102bitcoin.com/faq-bitcoin-seed/#All-seeds-are-not-created-equal

In his terminology he has this:

Private Key = A secret 256 bit number that you use to spend bitcoin
Other names = Secret Key

But you're saying that he should have said Master Private Key, not private key?

Bitcoin_Arena

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on October 16, 2023, 05:19:32 PM

Quote from: ContourCool on October 16, 2023, 04:57:05 PM

Right? So private key = one bitcoin address (which can differ based on script type)?

A single private key can generate three types of addresses. A legacy address which starts with 1, a nested segwit address which start with 3 and a native segwit address which starts with bc1.

Taproot address type?

Quote from: ContourCool on October 16, 2023, 04:57:05 PM

Sorry for these basic questions. If you have a recommendation on an article/book/video for someone at my level, I'm all ears!

thanks.

Always feel free to ask any question. Members will be happy to help. These websites can be quite helpful in getting you started.

https://learnmeabitcoin.com
https://www.lopp.net/bitcoin-information.html. You will get many more resources under this second website.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: ContourCool on October 16, 2023, 04:57:05 PM

I was thinking seed phrase is the mnemonic for the private key, but since private key is actually a bitcoin address, it's not. The seed phrase is the mnemonic for the MASTER private key.

A seed phrase (which is called mnemonic phrase as well) is a series of words and can generate the master private key and numerous addresses.

Quote from: ContourCool on October 16, 2023, 04:57:05 PM

Right? So private key = one bitcoin address (which can differ based on script type)?

A single private key can generate three types of addresses. A legacy address which starts with 1, a nested segwit address which start with 3 and a native segwit address which starts with bc1.

ContourCool

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on October 14, 2023, 04:15:21 PM

Quote from: ContourCool on October 14, 2023, 03:57:22 PM

One more question on this one - is it a good rule of thumb to say that if you are viewing the addresses for a private key from 2 different systems, and they're the same, then you have everything correct in terms of script type, derivation, etc?

If the addresses generated on two different wallets are the same, it means that they have been derived from the same seed phrase or master key.

I feel you are confusing a private key with a seed phrase and master key.
Take note that there is no derivation path for individual private keys. If you have an induvial private key, to get the correct address, all you need is the script type.

You're right, I think I am. I was thinking seed phrase is the mnemonic for the private key, but since private key is actually a bitcoin address, it's not. The seed phrase is the mnemonic for the MASTER private key.

Right? So private key = one bitcoin address (which can differ based on script type)?

Sorry for these basic questions. If you have a recommendation on an article/book/video for someone at my level, I'm all ears!

thanks.

nc50lc

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Quote from: ContourCool on October 14, 2023, 03:57:22 PM

One more question on this one - is it a good rule of thumb to say that if you are viewing the addresses for a private key from 2 different systems, and they're the same, then you have everything correct in terms of script type, derivation, etc?

In terms of script type: if your address is legacy, native-SegWit, nested-SegWit or Taproot and the two systems restored the same; then, both derived the same script type.
But this is still reliant on the wallet where you imported the master key or seed since it may display the desired addresses but filled the keypool with different script type.

In terms of derivation path: it needs to be exactly the one in the other system to derive the correct private/public key to other system.
Because a single discrepancy in any index from 'master private key' to 'chain index' level will produce an entirely different child keys.
Like for example: m/84'/0'/0'/0* will produce different receiving addresses as m/84'/0'/1'/0*.
So if both systems have same addresses, then their derivation path should be the same as well.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: ContourCool on October 14, 2023, 03:57:22 PM

One more question on this one - is it a good rule of thumb to say that if you are viewing the addresses for a private key from 2 different systems, and they're the same, then you have everything correct in terms of script type, derivation, etc?

If the addresses generated on two different wallets are the same, it means that they have been derived from the same seed phrase or master key.

I feel you are confusing a private key with a seed phrase and master key.
Take note that there is no derivation path for individual private keys. If you have an induvial private key, to get the correct address, all you need is the script type.

ContourCool

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One more question on this one - is it a good rule of thumb to say that if you are viewing the addresses for a private key from 2 different systems, and they're the same, then you have everything correct in terms of script type, derivation, etc?

Pmalek

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 23, 2023, 10:07:18 AM

Make sure to update Electrum wallet with latest version, they often release fixes and updates for better compatibility with hardware wallets.

Electrum is a nicely built piece of software and works well together with a Ledger hardware wallet. Unless OP is using a really outdated version, regular updates aren't a must unless he needs a functionality that exists only in the newer versions. But if it's a minor update like from 4.4.1 to 4.4.6, there shouldn't be any problems with compatibility, particularly since the HW keeps all the keys in place (for now at least Roll Eyes

).

dkbit98

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Quote from: ContourCool on August 21, 2023, 03:21:55 PM

I tried again, and this time connecting with Electrum worked on my Nano S. I thought I had shut down Ledger Live previous to trying to connect last time in Electrum, but maybe I didn't.

Make sure to update Electrum wallet with latest version, they often release fixes and updates for better compatibility with hardware wallets.
I wouldn't use ledger live app for anything else except for firmware update, and I would seriously consider switching to some open source hardware wallet, instead of closed source ledger.
One more thing, ledger stopped manufacturing model S, so it's just a matter of time when they stop supporting it.

ContourCool

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I tried again, and this time connecting with Electrum worked on my Nano S. I thought I had shut down Ledger Live previous to trying to connect last time in Electrum, but maybe I didn't.

Thanks again.

Pmalek

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Quote from: ContourCool on August 20, 2023, 02:44:15 PM

I went into Electrum and tried creating a new device, connecting to hardware device, etc. But it says "no hardware device detected" even when the ledger is plugged in.

Your Ledger hardware wallet can't only be plugged in to your computer for it to connect with Electrum. You have to unlock the wallet with your PIN, and open the Bitcoin app. It's also important that you don't have Ledger Live open when trying to connect Ledger to Electrum or any other third-party software wallet that's connected to your hardware device. So close all other software wallets, unlock your Ledger, open the BTC app on it, and try to connect to Electrum then.

BitMaxz

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Quote from: ContourCool on August 20, 2023, 08:02:20 PM

BTW BitMaxz - I tried plugging the Ledger device into a different USB slot and still no luck with Electrum, though doing it via Ledger Live works fine.

Would you mind to check if the ledger device is up to date? I don't know what exactly ledger device you have do you mind telling us if it's Nano S, Nano S plus, or Nano X?

Or check the latest version of any of these ledger devices from this link below.

- https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/7103926130845-Latest-Firmware-updates-for-Ledger-Nano-S-X-and-S-plus?support=true

Also, what version of Electrum are you currently using? If your device is Nano S there might be a compatibility issue on the latest Electrum version because the last firmware update for this model was released on November 30, 2021, and they no longer provide newer versions.

If you are using the latest version of Electrum can you try to use a lower version of Electrum I suggest 4.3.1?

nc50lc

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Quote from: ContourCool on August 20, 2023, 08:02:20 PM

So - where was my big mistake here, where did I go wrong and what should my take-away be? I thought that generating receive addresses from the Xpub was something people did regularly. In Blue Wallet there's not a place (that I saw) to input the script type, when importing an Xpub.

Clients take xpubs differently:

Some have specified extended public/private key format per script type like "xpub", "ypub" and "zpub" which indicate the script type of the addresses to be derived.
Like I've mentioned in the very first reply, Electrum take an xpub as indication to derive standard (P2PKH) addresses from it.
Blue Wallet isn't strict on this when importing a master key but new addresses will default to whatever the format of the imported xpub.
Some clients only take the "xpub" format and have their own way of identifying/setting the script type of the addresses to be derived.
Like for example, Sparrow which uses descriptors.

So based from your latest replies, I think when you imported it to Blue Wallet,
it automatically detected your existing transactions which are for your native SegWit addresses and created a wallet based from it.
But when you requested a new address, since you've imported an "xpub" instead of "zpub" it gave you legacy address type which didn't yet exist in you Ledger Live.

ContourCool

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It WORKED, thank you so much! It was the script type, I was able to change it both in Ledger Live and Sparrow (thanks for the detailed pointers BitMaxz), and then the transaction showed up.

BTW BitMaxz - I tried plugging the Ledger device into a different USB slot and still no luck with Electrum, though doing it via Ledger Live works fine.

So - where was my big mistake here, where did I go wrong and what should my take-away be? I thought that generating receive addresses from the Xpub was something people did regularly. In Blue Wallet there's not a place (that I saw) to input the script type, when importing an Xpub.

Thank you again for all your help, I was really stuck and you guys helped me out!!

BitMaxz

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Quote from: ContourCool on August 20, 2023, 02:44:15 PM

Electrum and Blue Wallet have the same next Receive address
Sparrow looks different, they start with bc1. It may be because of the current derivation path (m/84'/0'/0') which I've messed with a bit, don't really understand the derivation path but I do understand it's important.

The next address on the Ledger ALSO starts with bc1, and is identical to the one in Sparrow. Neither Sparrow or Ledger find the transaction. Hmm...

If the addresses on both Sparrow and Ledger start with bc1 these two wallets use the native segwit script type and the Electrum and bluewallet used different script types.

On both Sparrow and Ledger Live, you can switch the script type to legacy or nested segwit you can follow the guide below

For Ledger:
- https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/9068401160221-How-to-add-different-formats-of-Bitcoin-accounts-in-Ledger-Live?docs=true

For Sparrow, you can just go to settings under script type and change it to nested or legacy.

Once you are done it should show the legacy or nested addresses and let's hope the addresses are the same as Bluewallet and Electrum.

If it still shows a different address then your last hope is to use the xPub scanner to find the right derivation path and script type.

Quote from: ContourCool on August 20, 2023, 02:44:15 PM

I went into Electrum and tried creating a new device, connecting to hardware device, etc. But it says "no hardware device detected" even when the ledger is plugged in.

Would you mind trying to plug it into different USB slots or reboot the device and test it again?

Topic: Ledger doesn't show transaction, it shows up in Electrum. What's going on? (Read 362 times)