30+ year life span? No, absolutely not. If you load it once and never plug it in again, maybe... But realistically, if it's made of plastic and simple gold plating, it will never last 30 years in the wild.
Yup, you are probably right. Plus the technology is generally untested so you do not know what is going to happen as far as being able to manipulate the device until it is too late. The same goes with how the private keys are generated 
Topic: Ledger introduces “hardware” BTC wallet (Read 1511 times)
yes, that's ok, I missed that thread, but both devices have different purposes :
Mycelium Entropy acts as an as perfect as possible entropy generator when generating your keys or seeds - making sure that they are not compromised by a bad random generator (either by mistake or on purpose). It doesn't protect your keys when you import them or sign, this is left to the wallet implementation actually using the keys generated by Mycelium Entropy.
Ledger Wallet acts as an additional protection layer when you sign, making sure that the keys are not exposed and that you're signing what you wanted to be signing. It can be initialized using its own entropy source or any one you provide (such as one generated by Mycelium Entropy if you don't trust the chip entropy source)
Mycelium Entropy acts as an as perfect as possible entropy generator when generating your keys or seeds - making sure that they are not compromised by a bad random generator (either by mistake or on purpose). It doesn't protect your keys when you import them or sign, this is left to the wallet implementation actually using the keys generated by Mycelium Entropy.
Ledger Wallet acts as an additional protection layer when you sign, making sure that the keys are not exposed and that you're signing what you wanted to be signing. It can be initialized using its own entropy source or any one you provide (such as one generated by Mycelium Entropy if you don't trust the chip entropy source)
Reusing keys was the one thing i didnt like about it but thought i could just transfer the ballance to a newly creted one public key after a couple of uses, is that possible?
Yes, you can do that, in your case it'd also be better to do the signing on a dedicated offline computer, if you are not doing that already.
I want to start saving btc on a paper wallet created by entropy device then transfer what i need to my phone when required.
I will have to wait until i receive the device to try out the signing.
Thanks for all your help, i might PM you when i get it if thats ok with you.
Edit: i wish you were around a few days ago when i created this thread.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10007490
Reusing keys was the one thing i didnt like about it but thought i could just transfer the ballance to a newly creted one public key after a couple of uses, is that possible?
Yes, you can do that, in your case it'd also be better to do the signing on a dedicated offline computer, if you are not doing that already.
Thanks, after all the research i did i think the Entropy is the best device for someone like me who is needs easy idiot proof cold storage. Nothing is perfect but this is close and pretty cheap.
I use https://www.livingroomofsatoshi.com/ to pay my bills now and another member helps me with some food but i dont spend more than once or twice a week.
Reusing keys was the one thing i didnt like about it but thought i could just transfer the ballance to a newly creted one public key after a couple of uses, is that possible?
I use https://www.livingroomofsatoshi.com/ to pay my bills now and another member helps me with some food but i dont spend more than once or twice a week.
Reusing keys was the one thing i didnt like about it but thought i could just transfer the ballance to a newly creted one public key after a couple of uses, is that possible?
I thought you had to use the code on the card, so if someone got you ledger wallet it would still be no good to them.
Im not as tech savy as some so its probably a bit over my head.
Im not as tech savy as some so its probably a bit over my head.
You need some second factor (the code on the card being one implementation) if you want to spend from the Ledger Wallet. If you lose the wallet, you have a recovery mechanism that you can use without it.
I will be using Mycelium to generate the seed and transfer coins to one of my hot wallets in small amounts as i need it.
Never need more than about $50 in a hot wallet at any one time.
Never need more than about $50 in a hot wallet at any one time.
sure, that works, it's just more annoying and risk prone than doing it from a hardware wallet, especially if you want to stick to bitcoin best practices and never reuse keys.
I was looking to purchase a device to help me with secure cold storage.
I looked at the ledger wallet but thought it would be better for spending and storing small amounts.
The security card that goes with it makes it quite secure but i didn't see anthing about how to get coins out if you loose the card, does anyone know?
I looked at the ledger wallet but thought it would be better for spending and storing small amounts.
The security card that goes with it makes it quite secure but i didn't see anthing about how to get coins out if you loose the card, does anyone know?
it's a standard BIP 32 + BIP 39 + BIP 44 implementation, so you can restore it with any wallet supporting all of those. A few options are listed here https://ledger.groovehq.com/knowledge_base/topics/how-to-restore-my-backup-without-a-ledger-wallet
For my cold storage savings i ordered a Mycelium Entropy a couple of nights ago, with the research i did it looks like the safest way i can hold my coins.
Although it really is only a safe way to print paper wallets it will help me sleep better knowing that my cold storage hasen't been hacked due to one small mistake made by me while creating it.
Although it really is only a safe way to print paper wallets it will help me sleep better knowing that my cold storage hasen't been hacked due to one small mistake made by me while creating it.
You would still have to pay attention when you actually need to use that cold storage. The best setup if you want to use your coins on a regular basis would be to use Mycelium Entropy to generate a seed that you put in a hardware wallet in my opinion.
I'll have a read though the link you provided.
Im not as tech savy as some so its probably a bit over my head but i pick most things up
I will be using Mycelium to generate the seed and transfer coins to one of my hot wallets in small amounts as i need it.
Never need more than about $50 in a hot wallet at any one time.
I was looking to purchase a device to help me with secure cold storage.
I looked at the ledger wallet but thought it would be better for spending and storing small amounts.
The security card that goes with it makes it quite secure but i didn't see anthing about how to get coins out if you loose the card, does anyone know?
I looked at the ledger wallet but thought it would be better for spending and storing small amounts.
The security card that goes with it makes it quite secure but i didn't see anthing about how to get coins out if you loose the card, does anyone know?
it's a standard BIP 32 + BIP 39 + BIP 44 implementation, so you can restore it with any wallet supporting all of those. A few options are listed here https://ledger.groovehq.com/knowledge_base/topics/how-to-restore-my-backup-without-a-ledger-wallet
For my cold storage savings i ordered a Mycelium Entropy a couple of nights ago, with the research i did it looks like the safest way i can hold my coins.
Although it really is only a safe way to print paper wallets it will help me sleep better knowing that my cold storage hasen't been hacked due to one small mistake made by me while creating it.
Although it really is only a safe way to print paper wallets it will help me sleep better knowing that my cold storage hasen't been hacked due to one small mistake made by me while creating it.
You would still have to pay attention when you actually need to use that cold storage. The best setup if you want to use your coins on a regular basis would be to use Mycelium Entropy to generate a seed that you put in a hardware wallet in my opinion.
I was looking to purchase a device to help me with secure cold storage.
I looked at the ledger wallet but thought it would be better for spending and storing small amounts.
The security card that goes with it makes it quite secure but i didn't see anthing about how to get coins out if you loose the card, does anyone know?
For my cold storage savings i ordered a Mycelium Entropy a couple of nights ago, with the research i did it looks like the safest way i can hold my coins.
Although it really is only a safe way to print paper wallets it will help me sleep better knowing that my cold storage hasen't been hacked due to one small mistake made by me while creating it.
I looked at the ledger wallet but thought it would be better for spending and storing small amounts.
The security card that goes with it makes it quite secure but i didn't see anthing about how to get coins out if you loose the card, does anyone know?
For my cold storage savings i ordered a Mycelium Entropy a couple of nights ago, with the research i did it looks like the safest way i can hold my coins.
Although it really is only a safe way to print paper wallets it will help me sleep better knowing that my cold storage hasen't been hacked due to one small mistake made by me while creating it.
Ohhhhh, it's made by the same people who were the foundry for Cyrix CPUs, you know, the ones that lasted 12 months if you were careful not to apply power...
they're also the same people (actually the same business division and a variety of the same chip) making credit cards and passports. This is probably more closely related to the current use case.
Hey! What would the difference in security be from something like this to a paper wallet? Is there vulnerabilities in USD connecting?
a paper wallet is secure until you want to spend it - at that point the private key is revealed and a malware can grab it. Also, being bitcoin, it should not be vulnerable to US dollar connections (sorry, that was an easy one
)MMXIV and BALLS have dedicated standalone staking hardware for months already
you don't want to start comparing the security of a smartcard and of a Raspberry Pi. Also, you might want to rename MMXIV now
MMXIV and BALLS have dedicated standalone staking hardware for months already
Wow, it's a good product
But, which one is better ? This one / trazor ?
Anyway i think this is not too expensive
But, which one is better ? This one / trazor ?
Anyway i think this is not too expensive
Trezor is better any day. But that is only if u r fascinated about hardware wallet. I think for security, there is no replacement of a paper wallet.
Hey! What would the difference in security be from something like this to a paper wallet? Is there vulnerabilities in USD connecting?
The 30 years thing is the data retention time coming directly from the manufacturer http://www.st.com/web/catalog/mmc/FM143/CL1814/SC1523/PF217469 -
Ohhhhh, it's made by the same people who were the foundry for Cyrix CPUs, you know, the ones that lasted 12 months if you were careful not to apply power...
It is a good product but I think it needs more development
The 30 years thing is the data retention time coming directly from the manufacturer http://www.st.com/web/catalog/mmc/FM143/CL1814/SC1523/PF217469 - not something that can be guaranteed by the typical USB flash storage drive.
Gold plating is pretty much a standard when you're dealing with a USB connection unless you want it to break after a few connection cycles.
But yes, it will likely not last for 30 years if you insert it and remove it many times a day for 30 years (although in this case your computer port is likely to die first)
Gold plating is pretty much a standard when you're dealing with a USB connection unless you want it to break after a few connection cycles.
But yes, it will likely not last for 30 years if you insert it and remove it many times a day for 30 years (although in this case your computer port is likely to die first)
30+ year life span? No, absolutely not. If you load it once and never plug it in again, maybe... But realistically, if it's made of plastic and simple gold plating, it will never last 30 years in the wild.
where did you read that its gold plated? are they all made of it? 
30+ year life span? No, absolutely not. If you load it once and never plug it in again, maybe... But realistically, if it's made of plastic and simple gold plating, it will never last 30 years in the wild.
little bit old news because you can buy this since weeks 
list of hardware-wallets:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/overview-bitcoin-hardware-wallets-secure-your-coins-899253
list of hardware-wallets:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/overview-bitcoin-hardware-wallets-secure-your-coins-899253
Some of the perils of using a hardware wallet as long term cold storage may be:
FYI, none of the points your made are valid for a smartcard.
A Ledger Wallet is as resilient as a SIM card, your credit card or the chip inside your passport.
I will stick to my web wallet,i think the security is pretty decent
Jump to: