Ledger Nano X - new mobile focused hardware wallet - page 2.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: TryNinja on January 07, 2019, 03:44:18 PM

There is no difference between the OTG cable sold by Ledger and any regular one.

Since I got a Ledger too now, I can confirm that it works perfectly without the original OTG cable. I've used a small adapter from USB to OTG MicroUSB that costs under 1$.
I think that's the easiest approach, since I also use Ledger's cable from the initial package.

Pictures with the adapter:

Tramirostronix

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 09, 2019, 05:43:21 AM

Quote from: activescott on January 08, 2019, 11:47:13 PM

but since it is pretty quick and easy to swap out apps when I need to (without changing keys or loosing any transaction info) it isn't that big of a deal.

Pretty much. You can change apps in about 20 seconds, so even if you are regularly using several different one, a price tag of 120€ hardly seems worth it to save yourself a few seconds.

I'm sure I read somewhere about an update to Ledger Live being in the works, where if you tried to open a coin that wasn't installed, it would automatically uninstall other apps and install the app you need. But for the life of me I can't find anything about that now - maybe I'm making it up. Still, would be a nice feature.

it will be a good solution for ledger live, but I don't use it because when I bought my ledger, it was only with the old interface... so Roll Eyes

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: activescott on January 08, 2019, 11:47:13 PM

but since it is pretty quick and easy to swap out apps when I need to (without changing keys or loosing any transaction info) it isn't that big of a deal.

Pretty much. You can change apps in about 20 seconds, so even if you are regularly using several different one, a price tag of 120€ hardly seems worth it to save yourself a few seconds.

I'm sure I read somewhere about an update to Ledger Live being in the works, where if you tried to open a coin that wasn't installed, it would automatically uninstall other apps and install the app you need. But for the life of me I can't find anything about that now - maybe I'm making it up. Still, would be a nice feature.

Lucius

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Quote from: activescott on January 08, 2019, 11:47:13 PM

The increased space makes sense, as I can only put like 3-5 apps on my S, but since it is pretty quick and easy to swap out apps when I need to (without changing keys or loosing any transaction info) it isn't that big of a deal.

When Ledger released last firmware we got the possibility to install up to 18 apps at the same time, but such a number could have been achieved only if you install apps for coins based on BTC or ETH, because Ledger say they are small and user can stacking them.

I just check Ledger support page and now they claim that the number of apps that can be installed at the same time is 24, but only Bitcoin based apps. It is true that in other cases that number is from 3-5 depending of what coin app you use.

Also if user install apps in alphabetical order speed of Nano S booting will be faster.

Manage device storage - Nano S

activescott

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I use my Nano S quite a bit for Eth, Tokens, and Bitcoin and it works great. The X seems to make sense for wireless and more space for apps. However, with an S in hand, and usually using it at my desktop the wireless aspect isn't a big deal. The increased space makes sense, as I can only put like 3-5 apps on my S, but since it is pretty quick and easy to swap out apps when I need to (without changing keys or loosing any transaction info) it isn't that big of a deal. So I'm probably going to get an X at some point, but not right away since my S is working great.

asche

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Quote from: BitHodler on January 08, 2019, 07:50:39 AM

Exactly. I ordered myself 2 more yesterday when I saw the news about the nano x come out. It wouldn't surprise me if we get somewhat of a run on these older models, so be quick with ordering.

Ledger officially said the price would drop when X becomes available. So patience is the key if you want to get your hands on cheap wallets.

Kenni88

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Bought a backup Nano S in the 50% off sale in December Sad

Still happy with the S, but i'll give the X another 6 months before I'll buy, hopefully all bugs and vulnerability are tested further, especially the bluetooth feature.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: BitHodler on January 08, 2019, 07:50:39 AM

It all comes down to shitcoins for sure. People have figured out that downloading random mobile wallet clients isn't the best thing to do with how many fake shitcoin clients there are available. It's easy to go wrong here.

It's where the next wave of buyers for Ledger comes from, I suppose. Most serious bitcoin users already own a hardware wallet or two - sure, some will upgrade to the new model, but many won't. They need to get a new wave of buyers interested, and I guess the best way to do that is to support the 100s of trash coins that are flooding the market. They are paving the way for skyrocketing sales when the next bull run arrives. It is good business sense, but as someone with zero interest in all these trash alts, I can't say I'm not disappointed.

BitHodler

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 07, 2019, 05:26:15 PM

The big selling points seem to be Bluetooth and 100 apps at once. No one needs 100 apps at once. Hardly anyone needs more than 10 apps at once. If you need more than 10, then I can guarantee you are holding some utter trash coins.

It all comes down to shitcoins for sure. People have figured out that downloading random mobile wallet clients isn't the best thing to do with how many fake shitcoin clients there are available. It's easy to go wrong here.

The best solution is to buy a hardware wallet that's 1000x more secure than any other mobile wallet client, and at the same time doesn't require you to download untested software from sources you never heard of.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 07, 2019, 05:26:15 PM

The only plus side I can see is maybe I'll be able to get another Nano S at a cheaper price.

Exactly. I ordered myself 2 more yesterday when I saw the news about the nano x come out. It wouldn't surprise me if we get somewhat of a run on these older models, so be quick with ordering.

asche

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Quote from: Lucius on January 08, 2019, 06:24:15 AM

I fully agree with you, except Bluetooth and the options that the user is using up to 100 apps at same time, only thing changed here is X in name instead of S. Also using Bluetooth can only be one more of the vectors of the attack, even if they use end-to-end encryption. Personally, I see this just as option to trick users in a way X is more mobile friendly, and we know S can also be used with mobile device+OTG cable.

Perhaps some people will see the benefits in this new HW, and and they will agree to pay for it, but for me 120 euro is to much for what is offered.

Great marketing indeed. Same chip, more storage, add bluetooth chip, change S to X. Profit.

ABCbits

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Quote from: Rath_ on January 07, 2019, 03:38:31 PM

Quote from: ABCbits on January 07, 2019, 02:41:30 PM

I agree with asche. Even after thinking, i only can think the possibility 3rd party get transaction data which transmitted over bluetooth which could break user's privacy, but it's not realistic scenario.

Ledger claims that data sent over Bluetooth is end-to-end encrypted. What about man-in-the-middle attacks?

Then my scenario is impossible, unless attacker can decrypt it which is very unlikely.

AFAIK it's difficult to do MITM attack on end-to-end encryption communication, the only big weakness is when both device handshake (when a connection to be established and usually both device swap public key). But it's easily fixed if Nano X use fixed public key, send it first and the wallet must send it's public key on encrypted message which created with X's public key.

Lucius

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 07, 2019, 05:26:15 PM

I'm pretty disappointed, to be perfectly honest.

The big selling points seem to be Bluetooth and 100 apps at once. No one needs 100 apps at once. Hardly anyone needs more than 10 apps at once. If you need more than 10, then I can guarantee you are holding some utter trash coins. I have never used Bluetooth in my life, and don't plan to start now. I also wouldn't take a hardware wallet out in public with me to use with a phone - why make yourself a target like that? Regardless, it seems the Nano S will work with the Android app via a USB cable.

The only plus side I can see is maybe I'll be able to get another Nano S at a cheaper price.

I fully agree with you, except Bluetooth and the options that the user is using up to 100 apps at same time, only thing changed here is X in name instead of S. Also using Bluetooth can only be one more of the vectors of the attack, even if they use end-to-end encryption. Personally, I see this just as option to trick users in a way X is more mobile friendly, and we know S can also be used with mobile device+OTG cable.

Perhaps some people will see the benefits in this new HW, and and they will agree to pay for it, but for me 120 euro is to much for what is offered.

asche

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 07, 2019, 05:26:15 PM

I also wouldn't take a hardware wallet out in public with me to use with a phone - why make yourself a target like that?

No, but at work or during your travels is an option.

Just take it out at your desk or in your hotel room.
Allows you to travel without a need for a laptop.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

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I'm pretty disappointed, to be perfectly honest.

The big selling points seem to be Bluetooth and 100 apps at once. No one needs 100 apps at once. Hardly anyone needs more than 10 apps at once. If you need more than 10, then I can guarantee you are holding some utter trash coins. I have never used Bluetooth in my life, and don't plan to start now. I also wouldn't take a hardware wallet out in public with me to use with a phone - why make yourself a target like that? Regardless, it seems the Nano S will work with the Android app via a USB cable.

The only plus side I can see is maybe I'll be able to get another Nano S at a cheaper price.

HCP

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Quote from: asche on January 07, 2019, 05:50:22 AM

Edit: Sad thing is the OTG cable for the Ledger S is f**-ing expensive. 30% of the price of the device.
And i read somewhere a generic OTG cable won't work.

Quote from: TryNinja on January 07, 2019, 03:44:18 PM

There is no difference between the OTG cable sold by Ledger and any regular one.

Yeah, can confirm 100% that any OTG cable should work... Ledger isn't doing anything "proprietary" here... I have a cheap-as OTG micro-usb to USB socket adapter that I got from AliExpress for $1 (incl shipping)... and a very short USB-A to micro-usb cable.

Have used successfully with Ledger (and Trezor) and Mycelium, on an old S5. Haven't tried with my newer phone which is USB-C, as I'm still waiting for AliExpress to deliver the adapter Wink

As for the Ledger X... I don't need storage space for 100 coin apps... and I don't really need BT support either, think I'll stick with the Nano S (and Trezor One) for now

asche

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Quote from: TryNinja on January 07, 2019, 03:44:18 PM

Quote from: Rath_ on January 07, 2019, 03:38:31 PM

Are sure about that? I am quite sure that I managed to get it to work by simply using USB to micro-usb converter provided by Samsung with the original cable. The same goes for Trezor. It works perfectly fine.

That's correct. I've tried once and it worked with the OTG cable that came with my old phone (a Samsung Galaxy S8+).

There is no difference between the OTG cable sold by Ledger and any regular one.

Holy tits that's good news

TryNinja

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Quote from: Rath_ on January 07, 2019, 03:38:31 PM

Are sure about that? I am quite sure that I managed to get it to work by simply using USB to micro-usb converter provided by Samsung with the original cable. The same goes for Trezor. It works perfectly fine.

That's correct. I've tried once and it worked with the OTG cable that came with my old phone (a Samsung Galaxy S8+).

There is no difference between the OTG cable sold by Ledger and any regular one.

asche

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Quote from: Rath_ on January 07, 2019, 03:38:31 PM

Quote from: asche on January 07, 2019, 05:50:22 AM

Edit: Sad thing is the OTG cable for the Ledger S is f**-ing expensive. 30% of the price of the device.
And i read somewhere a generic OTG cable won't work.

Are sure about that? I am quite sure that I managed to get it to work by simply using USB to micro-usb converter provided by Samsung with the original cable. The same goes for Trezor. It works perfectly fine.

I'm not. You are actually giving me some hope.

Will buy some cheap ass usb-c otg cable and try.

ABCbits

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on January 07, 2019, 04:51:25 AM

Quote from: ABCbits on January 07, 2019, 12:09:26 AM

Sounds expensive, especially it can stores up to 100 crypto assets (unless they found cheaper way to have bigger secure storage).

From what I see Ledger Nano X can be preordered at about 120 EUR.
On the other hand Ledger Nano S at some 60 EUR sounds much better for me.

Not as expensive as i expected, but regardless i'd use Android Smartphone if i need convenience

Quote from: asche on January 07, 2019, 05:33:04 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on January 06, 2019, 10:04:40 PM

space for 100 coins, larger screen, price drop for the nano s.

It's not about space.

You can already use way more than 100 coins in Nano S.

The main difference is you can use the APPS needed for it in the ledger at the SAME time.

And it's big deal, especially they're marketing to those who need convenient HW wallet

Quote from: gentlemand on January 07, 2019, 01:45:10 PM

It's still the bluetooth I'm wondering about the most. I presume they'll have explored every possible route for exploitation. There must be others waiting to be dug out.

I agree with asche. Even after thinking, i only can think the possibility 3rd party get transaction data which transmitted over bluetooth which could break user's privacy, but it's not realistic scenario.

Rath_

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Quote from: asche on January 07, 2019, 05:50:22 AM

Edit: Sad thing is the OTG cable for the Ledger S is f**-ing expensive. 30% of the price of the device.
And i read somewhere a generic OTG cable won't work.

Are sure about that? I am quite sure that I managed to get it to work by simply using USB to micro-usb converter provided by Samsung with the original cable. The same goes for Trezor. It works perfectly fine.

Quote from: ABCbits on January 07, 2019, 02:41:30 PM

I agree with asche. Even after thinking, i only can think the possibility 3rd party get transaction data which transmitted over bluetooth which could break user's privacy, but it's not realistic scenario.

Ledger claims that data sent over Bluetooth is end-to-end encrypted. What about man-in-the-middle attacks?

Topic: Ledger Nano X - new mobile focused hardware wallet - page 2. (Read 918 times)