Topic: Ledger USB problem in the airport (Read 446 times)

Indeed, we should not forget about the possibility of access to coins on your hardware device if specialists in this field have physical access to it. We know that with the right skills it is possible, although I think it will take some time. If from this point of view, it is better to transport HW through the airport in a reset state and in factory settings, without seed-phrase you entered.

I also assume that it is theoretically possible, but practically, there are not so many people who can hack your device at the moment, not to mention the fact that such a specialist is among the employees of every airport in the world. Therefore, the probability that it is you who will be that "lucky one" is very small, and my recommendation about transporting HW across the border with factory settings serves more so that you don't worry and think about the safety of your crypto once again.

(author ommited as the quote tree looked to me as malformed)

There's two vectors of restrictions to consider here - not just the money, but also that importing certain types of hardware is restricted, and merely *taking* these with you to an airport could land you in hot water. I wouldn't discount the possibility of people already laundering embargoed technology in innocent-looking disk or USB enclosures. Probably better to transport these kind of items by shipping and keep a paper backup handy in case something happens to your cargo.

I do not believe that X-rays can actually damage a normal USB disk - particularly since it's solid-state with no moving parts - but the Ledger has some weird stuff inside its case so it might actually be susceptible to damage.

Actually if somebody with the right knowledge gets his hands on your HW, there's a good chance he can get to spend your coins; probably will have to dismantle the device though.
On the other hand, at least the HW I have, will reset (and lose seed) after 3 wrong PIN entered. And you can recover afterwards from the recovery seed.

I never thought that this could happen? I usually have a USB keychain area in my backpack where I usually put my Ledger device and I thought it would be safe in there. I see that there's no issue with the security but with the human nature which I haven't consider but they wouldn't be able to use it not unless with my pin right? but they can try it to 0000-9999 to open it as you can try it repeatedly.

My first question would be, why did you put a link on the words flight attendant? Secondly, if you're a flight attendant you probably know the process for going through security and have done it hundreds of times, how much stuff have security broken in that time? If possible I'd avoid taking any electronic devices through security unless you really need them, as there will always be the tiny possibility that they may get damaged. Maybe if you have additional security on your device, that would prevent anyone from accessing the content without your permission and add an extra layer of defense because you seem so concerned about it.

Come on guys really? Is this such big issue to discuss?

The Ledger is sold world wide through Amazon and eBay man!! How could you possibly say that it’s not legalised or it will get damaged through metal detector.

Do you guys even know how the imported items are scanned through shipments using X-ray detectors too?

What do you think how amazon drops off your ledger when you buying it from another country? They have special clearance and shit?

Funny.

That's far from the safe practice, to carry you seed phrase around, written on a piece of paper.

What if that's your main storage where you keep majority of your bitcoin, like many people do with Ledger? I would absolutely never import my main storage seed into a mobile wallet as risk is simply too big. For me mobile wallets serve only as a hot wallets where I have no more than few hundreds of dollars at any given moment.


I am quite certain that 99% of the airport security wouldn't be able to differentiate Ledger and a regular USB and probably have no idea what hardware wallet even is.

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@Pepinagomez I carried my Ledger wallet once or twice with me on the plane (it was in my cabin luggage) and I had no issues with it whatsoever. I generally avoid doing that due obvious risks that are already mentioned, but on a few occasions I was away from home for a longer period of time and for certain reasons needed my hardware wallet with me.

That is good option as you can store relatively small amounts like $50 or something like that in your seed phrase and then keep the rest of funds on the extended passphrase or divide them also on different phrases which will serve as an extra security while travelling internationally.

The authorities might interrogate you and show them your small amounts even if they ask you to unlock the device and confiscate the amounts you are safe with rest of your funds but always keep in mind to have the backup of seed and passphrase because if lost the funds are also gone.

As to @OP there is suggetion if you feel bad carrying hardware wallets then avoid risking it because there are chances of getting robbed also but many are traveling comfortably with their devices also.So be sure and being flight attendant have an idea about the authorities of each country and how they have setup this rule for your ease.

There was one similar thread in past also : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/carrying-hardware-wallets-when-traveling-internationally-2584650 so you can also look for some answers here.

I am not aware of that but I think it would be much safer if you are going to bring just your seed for your safety since it is just a piece of paper. It looks like the airports or immigration doesn't look at Bitcoin positively but rather negatively and I am sure they are not really that familiar with cryptocurrency.

Right and under peer pressure people would give them access to the device because you know authorities have the same old concept of threatening them with imprisonment or heavy fines under their custom rules.The situation might vary according to locations as crypto friendly nations won't even ask for investigation of your device while some would do and you are flight attendant so don't you have some permission? I don't know but it should not be a problem because many use them.

there was a post from a woman on reddit, she was travelling on business and on the back of her phone she had a bitcoin sticker.

she was stopped at the airport and was drilled for many hours. she was also asked to unlock her phone and laptop i think to which she denied.

basically, she was treated as a criminal as if she was transporting drugs.

therefore, it is best that no one knows that you own any bitcoin.

hence, it is not advised to carry any hardware wallets.

if you need to carry btc for transaction, you can just have electrum on your laptop or smartphone and have little amount of btc in their for expenditure.

X-rays do not damage or destroy electrical equipment or data, so your ledger is safe at the airport. I've traveled with computers many times and never had any problems after going through security checks. If you're afraid they may find a ledger suspicious, just get a normal thumb drive. You can attach one to your keys and the security won't even care because they see hundreds of these every day.
I'm 99% sure they won't take away your ledger or any other bitcoin wallet. It's completely legal to have these with you, just like you are allowed to have your phone, car key, or a camera.



If it happens that they won't allow you onboard with the hardware wallet (which I haven't heard of), you can always choose to add it to your baggage. It's risky because bags sometimes get stolen or lost, but in that case you'll only lose the wallet, not its contents, because the wallet is encrypted.
Your other choice is not to board and leave with your wallet. Nobody will take it from you if you decide to miss the flight. Sometimes, for people who are carrying over 1BTC in there, missing a flight would be a better choice than having the wallet taken away.

Well, to be fair, there are people who could prevent them from doing this; after all the people elect them. Nonetheless, they've already tried to regulate it with KYC & AML laws.

There are hardware wallets that look like parts of hardware, though, like USBs. Again, it doesn't make sense to censor me if I'm caring a hardware wallet.

That's true indeed, especially for those that support AOPP.

Why would you need a ledger? Just right down your seeds on a piece of paper and carry them in your pocket. Unless you have an access to the internet a hardware wallet is useless anyway. When you need to spend your coins, download a mobile wallet to your phone and import your seed words and proceed. I never understood the need for a hardware wallet. It is completely necessary to me.

All users and readers of this forum understand this, but I'm not sure that at least someone will be able to explain this to officials and government representatives. They are see "money", which means that the owner is obliged to share it with them. Nothing prevents them from passing a law prohibiting the transportation funds on crypto across the border.

PC and mobile are not conspicuous and don't "scream" that I have money. PC and mobile doesn't distinguish people from the general mass, but the hardware wallet is already a quite a different case. If desired, they may require access to a PC and mobile too (the level of permission of authorities differs in different countries), but in this case it will take a lot of time and it is more difficult to suspect than the owner of hardware wallet.

Maybe so, but that doesn't stop them from wasting your time figuring out the circumstances. Do you need it? In this case, the rule applies: the less attention to you, the better for you.

Completely agree with you. It will be better if we overestimate authorities capabilities and, based on this, be prepared for the worst-case scenario.

There is one more thing. You may not transport hardware wallet, but you may be noticed. The reason for special attention to your person and verification may be your personal data from stolen databases of HW sellers. Thus your story can change dramatically.

Exactly. Especially if the device is not powered/started, it should be safe.
Even more, if the recovery phrase is safe, whether the device is hypothetically affected/wiped is no matter, the recovery phrase will help get the funds bac because the money is "on the blockchain", not "in the wallet".

In theory no electronic device should be influenced by the X-ray scanners.... if that was true, nobody would allow them to scan their notebooks & tablets & cellphones etc... and those are scanned. The ledger hardware wallet consist of the same material as any other electronic device (eg Memory sticks) ...so they are not any different.

They also cannot access the coins with the scanner... because there are complicated algorithms that protect your device and the tokens that are stored on it.

As a flight attendant ..should you not receive special privileges not to be scrutinized like a normal member of the public? (What level of security clearance do you have?)  

" If you plan on traveling with your computer or mobile devices, you may be concerned about the X-ray security scanners an airport. These machines emit X-ray radiation, and you may wonder if it will damage your hardware. However, X-rays do not damage or destroy electrical equipment or data." Source : https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001027.htm

Important : Taking a laptop, hard drive, flash media, or magnetic media through metal detectors, such as those at airport security checkpoints, can cause permanent damage.    (The magnets you need to worry about are those with a strong magnetic commercial strength metal detectors)

But, there are no funds imported, that's what I'm saying. Moving the wallet across the world doesn't move the funds. It's the key, the authorities have no access to, that is used to transact. Besides, hardware wallets aren't the only bitcoin wallets. Should they check my computer and mobile phone too? It's a nonsense.

If they understand the purpose of the hardware wallet, they should also comprehend that there's no point into doing that. My balance can be faked. I can empty it right before I enter the airport, send it to one of my addresses whose keys aren't contained into the hardware, show them I own no coins, and recover them once I reach my destination.

What's up with their intentions? Do they want to rip me off? If yes, then yeah, it doesn't matter. Still, they need my permission to rip me off. But, I don't think that has to do anything with the discussion.

This topic i find educational because i have not thought about this aspect of traveling with a hardware device if it will have any consequence. After reading some of the comment above and solutions, i think this No.2 make a lot of sense and more safe, all that you will need is have your seed phrase securely with you, get to your destination and buy a hardware device if the need arises. Honestly imo i think this solve the OP's problem. Thanks for sharing, everyday we learn.

I get your point that it's up to you if you give the permission and yadda yadda, but really? Let's not underestimate the authorities here. There's a non-zero chance that this could end in a $5 wrench attack-like situation, but far worse because it's actually the authorities who's trying to access your funds, not some urban crackhead.

Let's look at the situation from a different angle.
When entering any country, there are restrictions on the import of funds. The receiving party, if its representatives at the airport understand the purpose of ledger or other hardware, are simply obliged to check the balance of the device. Therefore, I have doubts whether it is worth saying that this is a hardware.

I see several scenarios:

1 - You are transporting hardware under the guise of a flash drive.
A successful outcome is possible if the airport doesn't know the purpose of this device. Otherwise, you will have to explain and show a balance for the reason described above with all the ensuing problems.

2 - You don't carry a device, but carry seed-phrase with you in a text or other form and buy a device already on the other side of the border. In this case, seed-phrase should be hidden very securely and should not be shown to anyone.
 
The world is constantly changing and I don't exclude that in the near future, with any attempts to cross the borders, restrictions will be introduced and hardware devices will be checked.

I don't think this is a real risk. What you are describing is the potential for the data to become corrupted by the x-ray machines at the airport. I am not aware of any reports of this happening.

I have traveled (on airplanes) with my trezor multiple times without incident. Even if your ledger does become defective, you should have a backup of your seed in another format (written most likely for HW wallets), so you can access your seed if something as you describe does happen.

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Your bigger risk is traveling through customs, as the customs agent may detain you until you provide access to the PIN associated with your ledger.

millions of people use airports daily. they take their phones, thumb drives and smartphones with them.. its not a big deal
just having these things is not a flag.
you being on a watchlist for other reasons is a flag.

so if you are doing anything nefarious, that you worry has already put you on a watchlist then be cautious. if your just a normal person dont worry.
they can take the device just be sure to have a back up of seed.

you are more likely to lose it in 'lost luggage' than you are due to any security checkpoints

if however someone else finds your device for any reason
while they spend weeks trying to brute the device you can just use the seed on another device/wallet and move the funds.

you can also have 2 seeds. one of a small amount that you dont mind being confiscated. just make sure its clean taint.. and i dont mean clean it by using mixers.. because mixers make it dirty. (yep mixers will flag you as a launderer)
so just have a small amount that you dont mind losing that wont get you into any trouble and if they put you into a 'interview room' and question you to open your device or be punished by a fine or court. then give them the small amount and be on your way with your normal life.

I am assuming that you have stored your 12 word seed somewhere else on a paper in a safe place, if that is stored in a safe place with you there is nothing that can remove your bitcoin from the device. Even if I assume a hypothetical scenario, where you hardware wallet which stores data in a flash format interacts with some cosmic ray or x-ray and changes or corrupts the data inside your wallet, your money isn't destroyed by this, because your money isn't stored on that hardware, instead it is stored on lakhs of nodes which are mining bitcoins and hundred thousands of blocks that have been mined before, just load your private key into a new wallet and you are good to go again.

Except that they can't take the coins unless you give the permission; that's part of the financial sovereignty. If you have set a password and have written down the seed phrase, there's nothing they can do to stop you from moving money across the world, whether they confiscate the Ledger or destroy it.

Just tell them it's a hardware wallet and they can search it up. It's 2022, lots of people have these devices.

What country/airport are you trying to fly from? I tried to travel several times and the airport staff thought it was an external memory for my computer, but if I am in one of the developed countries.
I do not advise you to do this often, but it is better to keep the words in a paper and when you travel to another country, you buy a wallet there if you intend to settle down or use a phone wallet.

Dude, ask Ledger. I am inclined to say there isn't any issue at all or we would have heard about it by now. Am sure many ledgers have already passed through all kinds of detectors and if simple usb drives already pass through ok, be real surprised if the somewhat more robust Ledgers don't.

Besides, don't flight attendants get easier checks? Sure you could clear those in advance.

If you walk through a metal detector with a ledger hardware wallet turned off or models without a battery, then the chance of damage is very small. But the main thing is not to lose the seed phrase.I would be more concerned about your health, because all these safety detectors are harmful to health when visited frequently.

     While this can be seen as paranoia by some, I myself would prefer being called too paranoid because of being overly cautious with possibilities rather than regret. A wise decision would be to just keep the seed phrase and the private key om a piece of paper or on an a phone that you do not use for online stuff. I myself wouldn't mind going the extra mile or going through tedious stuff if it means I can keep my hard earned assets safe.

You are not carrying your bitcoin with you, you are carrying your private keys.

As to whether or not to take it with you, in my case it would depend on how much you have. If you have a lot of bitcoins I wouldn't take it with you, but if you have less than the maximum allowed in cash I wouldn't have a problem. That is, as long as you are not going to a country where bitcoin is forbidden.

At least that's what I thought before I saw the previous answers saying that they might confiscate it in the airport.

I think that if it is for travelling in Europe you shouldn't have any problems as long as you respect the limit I said before, which is €10,000.

Just save your private keys. It's not really needed to bring the hardware wallet with you because they may confiscate it. It depends to the airport's rule about these devices. But I think most of them would allow it and if they happen to be alarmed, you just have to explain what it is.
But if you don't want to be bothered by it, don't bring it and go to your destination together with your private keys or seed phrase.

It would not be wise to take these hardware to the airport. Because most airports still consider these hardware wallets or something like that to be illegal. So I would never encourage you to take these things to the airport . If there was no option then there was a point ,But you can save the secret phrases of your hardware wallets in a safe place so that you can recover them later.

They may seize it without damaging it. Because these devices have not yet been legalized in many countries. I would advise you not to take these kinds of hardware to the airport but you can import their private keys to your mobile or to a safe place. Then after the flight, you can recover it again. Otherwise, you may be in danger.

I just recently had my first flight after more than 2 years to attend an NFT metaverse GameFi event here in the Philippines. At first, I was thinking if I want to bring my Ledger Nano S with me. But I choose not to because I don’t think I really need those funds because I already have and I won’t be long anyways.

It just sucks that the disadvantage of the hardware wallet is that it can be possibly flagged and confiscated when bringing it along in the airport. Hardware wallet is the safest for us to store our crypto assets and NFTs, in which I have decided to store most of them there after my 3 Metamask/Trust Wallet accounts were hacked for a grand total of $12k due to a malware that I didn’t know.

In the event of this, there is an option of plausible deniability where you can create an extended passphrase to serve as an extra layer of security.
In this instance how much Bitcoin you own is not known, so you can keep a relatively small amount stored on the regular seed phrase and protect your full stash with an extended passphrase of which you know nothing about when interrogated or harrased.

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By wipe out, do you mean delete the address and carry the seed phrase on you, to recover it on arrival.

Under the kind of circumstances that we are in where many government agencies can be snooping on what you got, personally I would never be carrying my hardware wallet with me or as one suggested by someone here just wipe out your USB wallet clean and have it recovered everything using the recovery phrase. The best rule is better be safe than be sorry later. However, I do understand the inconvenience.

I don't think that it will be damage thru security arch at airports. But your primary problem should be human in nature, what I mean is that there are chances that you might get mugged, lost your hardware wallet and worst it could be confiscated if the TSA found out that you are carrying bitcoin and they could force you to enter your PIN. So the best thing to do when traveling is to wipe it out, and recover it later with your recovery passphrase, in my opinion.

It's not advisable to carry hardware wallet on airport, if the security check your stuffs and found a warning on his tools, they will ask you to emit the stuff. You wouldn't want to show your hardware wallet isn't? You could be robbed since they thought you're a millionaire.

It's better to carry empty cellphones and the seed phrase on secured place, then you can import your seed pharse on your cell phone and access your wallet.

Hello good morning, I am a flight attendant and I would like to know if it is possible to carry my Bitcoin with me in a usb ledger, as I have been told that when passing through the security arch at airports they could damage the ledger and remove my Bitcoin from the device. I would love to hear from anyone who is in this situation. Regards and thanks.