Topic: Legalization and Standardization of Organ Donation - page 2. (Read 388 times)

There are many drawbacks for this kind of standardisation or regulations because organ donation could turn into mass-money laundering project. Already there are crimes which are rising in the view of kidnapping and organ scrambling!! This filthy business is more prominent in the metropolitan countries and way more dominant in the asian countries. Imagine if they started regulating it then corrupted peeps can manage to get these deals fixed with the criminals just for the sake of money making.

We already have self-donations, donations at will after death and they are fine for now. But I do not think that it should go the way you think. It could take very bad turn over the time in the medical field.

And in just one page this went from saving lives to making a whole shitload of money...
It's now pretty understandable why some poeple have expressed their concerns previously, the focus of this is money, making money by selling stuff that in a normal society that has a serious problem with it should be donated at death.

Again:


Seriously, do you know how this would sound while you're pitching your project to investors? You're going to hear the mice's hiccups 10 floors below after this.

Anyhow, if you think poeple who take care of their own health so they might still be considered as donors at 40-50 are going to sell you the rights for 500$, you live in a bubble. The ones that will grab this cash will probably be rejected even for blood donation.

Here in India, it is illegal for individuals who are not related to the patient to donate their organs. As a result, tens of thousands die every year, from ailments to kidney and liver. Three years ago there was no such rule, and poor people used to get exploited by the middle men and forced in to selling their organs. But now the situation is even worse. Even those who want to donate organs on their own free will are prevented by the law from doing that. I fully support any initiative, which compensates organ donors financially.

I don't really think that you really need blockchain technology in order to implement this idea,OP.
A simple database can do the same work.
Anyway,I don't think that creating a marketplace for human organs is humane and/or morally justified.
Mostly likely all the criminals/gangsters/mobsters will take advantage of such "marketplace" by killing more people and selling their organs.
I better solution would be the state to make it mandatory for all people to declare their will to donate their organs after their death.Most of the transplantation recipients don't have any money to buy a human organ.
I know that you want to make a business out of this idea,but this doesn't seem right.
You should focus on other business ideas.

donating organs is very noble, it's just that some of its applications are often misused by several related parties and intermediary organizations. appropriate, maybe on this side there needs to be improvements and crypto can take part in it in the field of transparent transaction data

^{(a little off-topic)} the pros and cons that have occurred on the issue of organ donors have emerged for a long time, in my country this is a special fear for prospective donor recipients because it is found that some people have the personality of an organ donor to them, if the organ comes from being angry person then the recipient becomes angry person too or the personality that the donor has given them.  this is the reason why until now the organ donor program is still being discussed in our parliament.

Nice and useful idea! Due to the lack of donor organs, a huge number of people die every year. Diseases, injuries, whatever - and besides transplantation, there are no other options ... And we all, with a non-zero probability, can end our life so that some part of our physical body can SAVE another life. Why is it bad to conclude a donation agreement in case of a fatal case, having received a benefit now, when it can be used? As for me, an almost perfect combination of useful and pleasant!

"Yes, man is mortal, but that would be half the trouble. The bad thing is that he is sometimes suddenly mortal, that's the trick!" (c) Woland is a character in the novel "The Master and Margarita"

Thanks for the clarification, it is very important as you know to keep the donors safe because their lives can be in danger so I think there has to be some kind of government adoption first so that the police can track such anomalies through the blockchain and punish the criminals who can do business They are criminally responsible for speeding up the execution of orders that they can easily view via the Blockchain.
I know of course that there are many patients who are in dire need of some organs to sustain their lives but it is also very important that this does not cause misfortune to other people who are willing to donate their organs because they need the money.

I don't really think it's a good idea to sell your organ for money to save lives. That could translate to: "I will only save your life if you give me money".

I haven't really sat down to deeply consider the use of organs from strangers and the implications. Assuming it's moral, I would rather encourage donations and look for ways to get more people to donate. Maybe by offering their children/relatives some sort of beautiful certificates/cards that prove that their dead parents or relatives helped save the lives of those in need of organs. Donors could be treated with respect... That all the certificate can do
I don't like the idea of people selling part of their body for money, it could encourage all sort of abominable behaviors.
I think you could just publicly list those who need organs, with urgent cases at the top of the list. If someone on the list dies, it should be public too so that more people will be willing to apply to save others. Those on the list can be anonymous, but there should be ways to verify they are real humans in need of organs.

I think the increase of crime is somewhat overstated. Sure crypto and bitcoin are used for crime but it pales in comparison to the amount of transactions that are normal. It would be hard for criminals to disrupt this process, a lot would have to go right for them.
-They would have to be colluding with a rich person in need of an organ. This person would tell them where they are in line. The blockchain would tell them this, but it wouldn't tell them who is infront or below them in line.
-If the rich person is not #1 in line, nothing can be done since the blockchain won't revel the identity of people on the waiting list.
-If the rich person is #1 in line or close to it, there's little incentive for him to pay for an illegal service and risk felony charges. At scale, people wouldn't have to wait long anyway, maybe days or weeks as oppose to the current 3-5+ years.
-They would have to know who's a donor and which organ have they sold rights to. People won't tell you this, just like most won't tell you their social security number. And the transplant only occurs after death. It would look suspicious for a new member to die within a week, or month, or year. I'm certain investigators/reporters/data scientists and AI would notice this anomaly and piece it all together which would result in the rich guys finances being scrutinized until they find the link to the criminal organization.

The idea is that for people becoming donors, there's close to zero risk. We are paying you to become a member and forget your on the list. Many fintech companies like Paypal/Coinbase have done the same. You then go and live your life. After death, your estate (family) would get paid out 2-3x whatever you were paid initially so in this case ($1500) which they can use for anything (funeral costs, cover daily expenses, etc) if the organ is viable and the transplant occurs. After death, hospitals would run your name to see if your in the system. Each hospital would have their own credentials and everyone can see logs of hospitals accessing the blockchain, but the donor and recipient names remain encrypted.

This is what makes what I am doing so expensive and why I will need the crypto/VC community to fund this. So if I pay 100 people $500 just to sign up and sell me the exclusive right to one kidney for example, and I sell that right to xyz insurance company or government healthcare system (europe) for $50k, 1 death covers 100 bets. The cypto/VC investors see their investment grow since margins are so big. And we fill a pressing need. Even if we account for the additional $1500 payout to the family after death, this expense is easily accounted for since I'm expecting the average member's lifespan to reach 30-50 years. Inflation will reduce their payout amount, and conservatively investing small sums in an index fund or AAA bond (gov or corporate bond) over 10 years would yield the amount needed and the rest would be profit.

Math
$50k Crypto/VC investment per 100 people, excluding additional expenses to keep the math simple
$500 per person
$1500 estate payout upon death and transplant
$50,000 average payout from insurance company payout to us
10% average return on the S&P500 from 1926 to 2018
18-25 years old average donor age up registration
30 year conservative projection of average life expectancy of each donor after registration

$50,000 - $50,000 (100 people) = $0
100 * $50,000 (insurance pays us) = $5,000,000

$49,500 invested in the S&P500 at a conservative 4% expected return over 10 years with zero additional contributions = $23,770 profit
$49,500 invested in the S&P500 at 10% expected return over 10 years with zero additional contributions = $78,890 profit
$49,500 invested in the S&P500 at a conservative 4% expected return over 30 years with zero additional contributions = $111,048 profit
$49,500 invested in the S&P500 at 10% expected return over 30 years with zero additional contributions = $814,245 profit


Insurance company's projected profits per term policy, assuming $1000 initial investment and $200 monthly contribution over 30 years at 10% return = $398,935
Starting amount - $1,000
Total contribution (monthly fee paid by policy holder) - $72,000
Total investment - $471,935

I think you are not aware of the dark web that secretly takes the organs out of poor people sometimes then sells it in either black market and for some of them they end up getting sold in countries with legal organ donation. It's not as simple as it sounds since at the end of the day, organ donation becoming legal might mean these activities will increase in some corrupted Nations. It is legal in some countries but it still comes with a lot of negative effects. Also at the same time it's not really a 100% safe procedure, I myself would not recommend anyone to do it as a means of earning money since your body might have infection, sepsis, internal bleeding, long term damage and death as well. If done for emergencies it's completely understandable, if done for selling and earning some money, a lot of things can go wrong.

It is necessary before every project to know the negative aspects. Does this project encourage criminals who trade in human organs to kill more victims??!! If such a project is approved and the sale of organs becomes legal even if it is after death, perhaps this will be tantamount to obtaining an official certificate for gangs selling human organs to practice their work freely. There are many such gangs, especially in third world countries, who kill their victims and then sell their organs to Wealthy sick people who need these organs to continue their luxurious lives!!! What is the deterrent anymore for these criminal gangs to increase their brutal activities against innocent victims?!!
I know you have a good intention, but such a project may have very serious consequences for the safety of society.

There must still be some untapped ways to improve or maximize organ donation. But never the monetization of it. I'm afraid the negative consequences of which would be much bigger than the problem it intends to address. As you mentioned, one of which is the possible emergence of syndicates focusing on human trafficking or kidnapping for the sake of organ gathering.

How many people die everyday? Accidents, deaths, happen every hour of the day. How many of the dead have healthy organs which could still be used by people who need transplant? Many, I suppose. I guess we could develop or strengthen programs, if there are already existing ones, to encourage families to donate the organs of their dead loved ones.

This might lead to a dangerous idea since we all know that people are greedy. I have no problem with the donation of organ thing but when there's money involved that's a different story. It would make a bad reputation to the blockchain or to the crypto community if things goes sideways. I know some government will try to make it look like the source of the problem is the crypto currency. And worse is like what happened in China as @paxmao mentioned.

It may still be under in a debate but I don't agree to monetize donating organ. Donation is different from monetizing.

How this going to work effectively is still a myth. Because the donar is paid upfront, and the donar agree for the organ transfer after his death. This could increase the chance of crime.

For example person A is rich and he has got good sum of money. Person B is poor and he agrees for the organ donation and gets upfront payment. Now person B is in the urge of transplantation for survival. By this time some people will intend to kill and take the organ. So, this isn't going to be more effective plan. If something offensive or controversial I'm sorry for that, nothing intentional. Human minds are built in such a way.

I don't think the united states is a suitable climate for a future hub of organ donations. Cost of living is too high. Taxes, regulation and expenses too much overhead. Health and dietary regimen of americans can be a negative trend in contrast to healthcare and standard of living of countries who enjoy healthier average diet and lifestyle.

The natural progression would likely be for nations outside the USA to be offered monetary incentive for organ donation. With organs being imported into the US.

With the format being shifted to include monetary payout only upon the event of death via natural causes.

Organ transplant has gone commercial now, and not only that there other medical surgeries, artificial surgery, replacement and adjustments made on human bodies now. This is having effect on the economy and may not be excluded for the high rate of kidnapping and terrorism attacks which may have the connection of organ replacement for money. People risk the life of others for money and some give birth and sell them for money. Encoding these into the blockchain will lead to increase in the rate of organ transplant because identities will be concealed. I'm just looking at the negative effect anyway.

I know that for some organ donor you are being paid for it, both if I see it from your point of view it will become a normal business and can create avenue for things not so good in the community and so on.

larry niven (a "hard" science fiction writer) wrote several stories about harvesting organs for profit or "the greater good" in the 1960's/70s. basically, the whole concept goes south real fast. i tend to agree with him.

brief overview:
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=337