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Topic: Let's compare USD and BTC - page 2. (Read 3961 times)

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
October 30, 2012, 12:54:27 PM
#31
I have another thought: It could be regarded as a digital asset which is very secure and can hedge against inflation, since it is not issued by any government, the risk of default is zero. But first the exchange should be well regulated and accepted by pension funds


The risk of default may be 0, but the risk that there is a flaw that will reder bitcoins worthless is non-zero. There is also the risk that people will stop using bitcoins, which would drive down the value, which to the hoder works out to about the same thing as a default.

As a high end investment target, people will not use BTC at all, it will only be operated by institutions. Buying and selling them in the exchange is their daily work, and why people buy? Since it hedges against inflation, better than a USD saving account


But why wouldn't individuals invest directly in bitcoins? Getting bitcoins is easier than (or at least as easy as) investing in an institutional account.  Large institutional investors might want to buy some bitocins as a hedge against inflation, but that doesn't stop individuals from doing the same thing. The beauty of bitcoins is that it serves so many roles at the same time. Bitcoins can be used by large investors, small savers, day traders, people transferring money across the globe (to do large investments in other countries, or as a way to send small amounts to family members) or by people buying things online, or by people donating money anonymously, or for micropayments. The more people use bitcoin, the stronger it becomes, and the better it serves for all the other functions. For instance, as more people use bitcoin as savings, the price will go up, and the total market cap will go up, which will make it easier to use bitcoins for larger transfers.
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 2245
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
October 30, 2012, 11:50:56 AM
#30
So USD is a liability, but BTC is an asset. USD represents the future value that will be imparted to it, which is uncertain. BTC represents the past value that was put into it, which is certain since it is already past.
No, neither one is an asset.

Both are claims on future production, which may or may not occur, and which may or may not be honored.

The difference is that USD can be arbitrarily diluted and BTC can not.

Yes. You actually own bitcoin. You never really own a dollar.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
October 29, 2012, 09:03:23 PM
#29
I have another thought: It could be regarded as a digital asset which is very secure and can hedge against inflation, since it is not issued by any government, the risk of default is zero. But first the exchange should be well regulated and accepted by pension funds


The risk of default may be 0, but the risk that there is a flaw that will reder bitcoins worthless is non-zero. There is also the risk that people will stop using bitcoins, which would drive down the value, which to the hoder works out to about the same thing as a default.

As a high end investment target, people will not use BTC at all, it will only be operated by institutions. Buying and selling them in the exchange is their daily work, and why people buy? Since it hedges against inflation, better than a USD saving account

I believe the demand for saving is endless, no one will complain if they die with several millions of saving in their account, with extra amount of saving, people will live a very different life: secure and happy every day
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
October 26, 2012, 03:18:40 PM
#28
I have another thought: It could be regarded as a digital asset which is very secure and can hedge against inflation, since it is not issued by any government, the risk of default is zero. But first the exchange should be well regulated and accepted by pension funds


The risk of default may be 0, but the risk that there is a flaw that will reder bitcoins worthless is non-zero. There is also the risk that people will stop using bitcoins, which would drive down the value, which to the hoder works out to about the same thing as a default.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
October 25, 2012, 05:20:56 PM
#27
Please give an example of a business that can only be profitable using BTC as payment method?

Silk Road? Smiley

Good, so BTC is suitable for annonymous payment, while the payer want to hide the identity.  Is that going to reduce the unemployment and control the inflation?

I have another thought: It could be regarded as a digital asset which is very secure and can hedge against inflation, since it is not issued by any government, the risk of default is zero. But first the exchange should be well regulated and accepted by pension funds

And if lot of people put their savings into BTC, it will reduce the unemployment (they dare to spend more since their retirement is secured now), and inflation will be low (Fed does not need to print more money to stimulate spending)
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
Annuit cœptis humanae libertas
October 25, 2012, 04:16:05 PM
#26
Please give an example of a business that can only be profitable using BTC as payment method?

Silk Road? Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
October 25, 2012, 03:06:57 PM
#25
To be more clear, how could BTC reduce the unemployment?
It allows people to operate businesses that would otherwise not be profitable or permitted due to government-enforced economic oppression.

Please give an example of a business that can only be profitable using BTC as payment method?
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1010
October 23, 2012, 03:47:02 PM
#24
To be more clear, how could BTC reduce the unemployment?
It allows people to operate businesses that would otherwise not be profitable or permitted due to government-enforced economic oppression.

It reduces the cost, increases the speed, and increases the potential user base of payments, especially international.  The efficiency savings allow businesses to hire more people, and the speed/availability allows the business to reach markets it may otherwise not have access to.  This access allows the business to grow, or even exist.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1531
yes
October 22, 2012, 05:43:27 PM
#23
A more direct approach would be to envisage that one party issuing USD as 'debt' has a big claim on the asset side of the balance sheet, while the holders of USD have a big liability on the liabilities side of the balance sheet (but spread out over millions of balance sheets).

BTC is no one's debt.
legendary
Activity: 4438
Merit: 3387
October 20, 2012, 02:05:17 PM
#22
The difference is that while you may hold BTC on the asset side of your balance sheet, this BTC doesn't appear on the liability side of anyone else's balance sheet. When you hold USD on the asset side of your balance sheet, a corresponding entry appears on the liability side of someone else's balance sheet.

Specifically, if you hold paper USD, it appears on the liability side of the Fed's balance sheet. If you hold a USD bank deposit, it appears on the liability side of a private bank's balance sheet.
However, it really doesn't matter what the number is on the liability side of the Fed's balance sheet (as long as it doesn't go to 0).

You could invent a Bitcoin Reserve and pretend that every bitcoin mined is a liability on the Bitcoin Reserve's balance sheet. It would be exactly the same thing (except that the Bitcoin Reserve's liabilities are limited to 21 million).
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
October 19, 2012, 06:24:18 PM
#21
To be more clear, how could BTC reduce the unemployment?
It allows people to operate businesses that would otherwise not be profitable or permitted due to government-enforced economic oppression.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
October 19, 2012, 06:13:55 PM
#20
To be more clear, how could BTC reduce the unemployment?

IMO, if enough money flow into BTC market, it will create many mining business and BTC investment companies, just like mortgage backed securities, there will be many people find work around it, the price rise continuously, and finally FED has to tighten the monetary policy to stop it from building a bubble



legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
October 18, 2012, 09:33:59 PM
#19
Specifically, if you hold paper USD, it appears on the liability side of the Fed's balance sheet. If you hold a USD bank deposit, it appears on the liability side of a private bank's balance sheet.
Good point. Are most of world's government currencies today like USD in this way? Any important exceptions?

I think they more or less all are, yes. There are a few places like Switzerland where a partial gold backing of the central bank's paper is required; I recall the Swiss People's Party proposing that the required ratio be shortened from 1:6 to 1:5, in other words, the Swiss National Bank would have to hold reserves in physical gold equal in value to one fifth of the market price of issued francs.
That's the problem with government currencies. Even if they promise to restrict the quantity via backing they can break that promise at any time, and the holder has no recourse.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
Annuit cœptis humanae libertas
October 18, 2012, 08:32:22 PM
#18
Specifically, if you hold paper USD, it appears on the liability side of the Fed's balance sheet. If you hold a USD bank deposit, it appears on the liability side of a private bank's balance sheet.
Good point. Are most of world's government currencies today like USD in this way? Any important exceptions?

I think they more or less all are, yes. There are a few places like Switzerland where a partial gold backing of the central bank's paper is required; I recall the Swiss People's Party proposing that the required ratio be shortened from 1:6 to 1:5, in other words, the Swiss National Bank would have to hold reserves in physical gold equal in value to one fifth of the market price of issued francs.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
October 18, 2012, 08:18:50 PM
#17
As long as the USD and BTC have some positive value, they are both assets. You can put them on the asset side of your balance sheet, so to say.

The difference is that while you may hold BTC on the asset side of your balance sheet, this BTC doesn't appear on the liability side of anyone else's balance sheet. When you hold USD on the asset side of your balance sheet, a corresponding entry appears on the liability side of someone else's balance sheet.

Specifically, if you hold paper USD, it appears on the liability side of the Fed's balance sheet. If you hold a USD bank deposit, it appears on the liability side of a private bank's balance sheet.
Good point. Are most of world's government currencies today like USD in this way? Any important exceptions?
newbie
Activity: 34
Merit: 0
October 17, 2012, 10:50:26 PM
#16
As long as the USD and BTC have some positive value, they are both assets. You can put them on the asset side of your balance sheet, so to say.

The difference is that while you may hold BTC on the asset side of your balance sheet, this BTC doesn't appear on the liability side of anyone else's balance sheet. When you hold USD on the asset side of your balance sheet, a corresponding entry appears on the liability side of someone else's balance sheet.

Specifically, if you hold paper USD, it appears on the liability side of the Fed's balance sheet. If you hold a USD bank deposit, it appears on the liability side of a private bank's balance sheet.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
October 17, 2012, 04:36:24 PM
#15
So USD is a liability, but BTC is an asset. USD represents the future value that will be imparted to it, which is uncertain. BTC represents the past value that was put into it, which is certain since it is already past.
No, neither one is an asset.

Both are claims on future production, which may or may not occur, and which may or may not be honored.

The difference is that USD can be arbitrarily diluted and BTC can not.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
October 17, 2012, 12:50:44 PM
#14
Well, for one, the US dollar is a liability. In the dollar's case, it's a liability of the Federal Reserve System. Euros are a liability of the ECB. Yen are liabilities of the Bank of Japan etc. You can actually see the liability-nature of the dollar by looking at the Fed's balance sheet:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/

Note that the Fed has got 1.136 trillion in outstanding currency liabilities.

Bitcoin, on the other hand, is not a liability of any institution.

So USD is a liability, but BTC is an asset. USD represents the future value that will be imparted to it, which is uncertain. BTC represents the past value that was put into it, which is certain since it is already past.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
October 17, 2012, 10:52:32 AM
#13
- I go to the farmers' market. They take dollars, not bitcoins.
- I go to work. They give me dollars, not bitcoins.

Is that because they choose to, or because a government authority figure will put a gun in their face if they do not exclusive deal in FRNs?
I'd say neither. It's simply because Bitcoin is still extremely obscure - most people haven't heard about it, and even if they did, they haven't learned the technical aspects, or they got misinformed. Government is people, too.
Anyhow, the title of the thread was about differences  between dollar and bitcoin, and my post was answering that question from practical perspective.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
October 17, 2012, 10:42:41 AM
#12
- I go to the farmers' market. They take dollars, not bitcoins.
- I go to work. They give me dollars, not bitcoins.

Is that because they choose to, or because a government authority figure will put a gun in their face if they do not exclusive deal in FRNs?
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