Topic: Let's get rid of all regulations, what can possibly go wrong - page 2. (Read 429 times)

Afaik there was also a member of the team (was a scientist iirc?) that was kicked out because he warned the company about the risks of the submarine they were trying to dumbly push. I'm fine with companies, organizations, or anyone really experimenting. It's the leading cause of improvements in literally everything. Just remember to not be dumb enough to ignore the risks involved and push it to public use without any forewarning.

To be fair, regulation exists on the internet, but it isn't pushed forcefully because it doesn't directly involve the life of someone. On this submarine though? That's something that holds human lives.

This is an extremely skewed view. I believe that regulations should exist when it comes to human life and safety. Otherwise, it is absolutely true that it stifles innovation.

In the case of the internet, if regulation didn't exist, yes there would be anarchy...but who cares? Doesn't anarchy already exist even with regulations? Wouldn't people learn and become vigilant faster if the internet was uncensored and unregulated?

That's my view anyway. As for this submarine saga - it's ironic about the wealth of the individuals on the submarine and the wealth of those on the titanic. Coincidence? I think not.

I like people talking without any sentiments, that's why I see your comparison as useless as anything. I wonder why you would be comparing Rush's risk with crypto to justify that it doesn't hurt anyone. Rush's own is obvious and took lives but have you thought about how the total unregulated crypto environment would hurt people and the economy? And what the effect could be over time?

I stand for crypto adoption and regulation, else, everything will go where we don't expect as the users are also the people you don't know their minds and motives.

Are you serious? if you want to get rid of all regulations and centralization, you must become a super power man which you need to mastering everything.

If you're want to go other country, you must build your own plane and become a pilot. You have an another option, you must build your own ship and know how to handle it. If you're want to eat a cookie, you must become the farmer who's grow your own garden and produce anything that used to bake your own cookie.

After all, you're need to rely on someone because it's impossible you need to do everything by yourself.

Are you really going to compare the "Titan" submarine incident with the crypto regulations? Are you serious?
I think that most of the cryptocurrency users aren't against the idea of the crypto industry being regulated. The problem is what kind of regulations the crypto industry really needs and are they effective at preventing the "average Joe" from getting scammed in projects like FTX.
We all agree that all the "high risk-high innovation" industries should be regulated, because such regulation would help protecting human lives.

A few keywords come to mind:

BALANCE

There needs to be a balance between how heavily or lightly regulated things are - in the case of the Sub, money spoke and people were bought out.  The balance and common sense (which I'll mention next) simply wasn't there, sure they could do this crazy thing (and did) and lo and behold there are consequences when you do stupid things.

However, let's imagine that we have an angry and authoritarian leader who is opposed to change, new facts and new ideas...

Dr. Roger Bannister would have been in trouble for proving great leader wrong because 'no man can run a mile in under four minutes' was the accepted common belief in the early 1960s in the UK.  

The modern diesel and electric trains would have been banned, because 'change is scary... we'll stick with steam trains, just because.'

Bitcoin would have been banned because great leader cannot understand new thing, if great leader cannot understand it is wrong and banned.

COMMON SENSE

'How dare you not tell me to peepee on the electric fence... bzzzzzboom!'

Use your brain, if it's too good to be true or seems dumb then it is.

The flipside is that by not doing something, we can make a problem worse - during Lockdown, deafblind children in the UK suffered because they could not do the things that they normally did and struggled to adapt to the draconian laws (however well intended...)

'We must keep people safe because deadly virus'

'Locking down the world will hurt people with special issues though...'

'BLAST YOU, I'M A GOOD PERSON AND I AM IN CHARGE!'

'Can we compromise and can our feelings be made known>'

'NO, NAY, NEVER!'


Whilst safety is needed, too much and indeed too little of something is bad enough.

A little rhyme to help you remember:

Flashy Jack was quick to act and thought about it later
Whilst Dopey Pat just sat and sat - action, he did not favour.
Steady John said 'steady on, I'll think whilst I have time...
... but then I act, or it's a fact that I'll be in the slime!'

Well, I partly agree. Breaking rules if you're risking people's lives is obviously not ok. If Stockton Rush would use his submersible himself that would be fine. Space rockets, planes, submarines all were risky inventions. Satoshi Nakamoto and Bitcoin also broke some rules but he didn't hurt anyone. Bitcoin is revolutionary, it also ignores some regulations, so what? Ban Bitcoin?

Many are just stereotyping what they read without really not knowing what they read.  I am not one of those who thinks regulation is bad.  Regulation is implemented to protect the interest of both the state and its people.  Just like the case presented by @OP.  They are the standard to follow in order keep people safe from whatever undesired result of neglect or substandard actions.


True!  Bitcoin as decentralized in nature is very hard to regulate but it is not impossible especially Bitcoin needs to go through centralized system in order for the people to use them in their daily needs.  I am also one of the believer that regulation is necessary to keep the Bitcoin community safe from exploitation and scams.

I have a feeling that on this forum there's a very common opinion that all regulations are bad, and if society gets rid of them and the government, everyone will get rich and the economy will be booming.

As for Bitcoin, it itself is impossible to regulate, and I don't think there has ever been any attempts to do so by pressuring devs, miners and full node operators. But Bitcoin ecosystem absolutely should be regulated, exchanges need to prove solvency; hyips, cloud mining and other scams need to be prosecuted; mining needs to be regulated to not cause disruptions to energy grid and to not contribute to environment pollution.

The authorities are only focusing on what they think is important and with other issues they remain silent as if they don’t care at all. Justice in my country will take years because the court will have a final decision on this and most of the time it will take a decade or more, the worst is to be neglected with the fair judgement. If there’s a fair regulations and the government really do their job to protect everyone including the nature, I believe we can have a better society that makes a different.

Thing is that most likely Rush thought that his way of doing things were reasonable as well. As most of us aren't deep sea experts with submarines and deeps sea like Rush wasn't. Most of us aren't experts in political science either. And countries have move moving parts than submarines.

And even when everything affects to everything and there are countless of studies about political science and how to keep careful balance, for some reason people who haven't read one book think that they know best what are reasonable regulations.

And since you already wrote that people running that sub were bunch of idiots, what do you think rest of the human kind is like, who think they know what's reasonable regulation?

I get your point, OP, and I'm not an anarchist by any means but I do think there are way too many laws and various regulations on the books (in the US at least) and that law enforcement has far too much power.  So do regulatory bodies, as evidenced by the hard time the SEC is giving crypto exchanges.  They won't give clear guidance and just seem to be handing out fines and wrist-slaps and whatever else as it suits them.

I'm for less government and more freedom, but not to the extent that there's absolutely no oversight.  That said, the regulations didn't prevent the submarine disaster.  You can't protect against assholes who get away with ignoring the reasonable laws that exist, and there are plenty of examples of that throughout history (especially if you're an asshole with a lot of money and/or influence).  Some things just never change.

And by the way, let the anarchists keep hoping for anarchy; I doubt the world is going back to that stage in any of our lifetimes.

That was my first thought as well.  There are rules for safe design of buildings and vehicles and whatnot, and then there's the very fuzzy, ever-changing world of financial regulation.  The latter is much more murky and prone to abuse IMO.

Well, Stockton Rush was warned beforehand by multiple experts in the field but he still insisted on what he wanted to do. There are tons of red flags in what he wanted to happen for this expedition, and yet those who paid and joined him in the dive didn't say anything. I think if I was a person with that kind of money, I would believe the experts more than what the merchant trying to sell me a product says about his plans. I get that OceanGate wanted to be innovative or quirky, but physics and nature don't care about these things - they follow their rules, and your little submersible and your company wanting to be innovative and quirky won't change that, not even one bit.

IMO, those rich people inside the submersible are partly to blame, too. Just because you can pay for the trip doesn't mean you should.

Since this thread is opened in Economy board, I assume the main idea behind this title is that bitcoin should be regulated, right? But bitcoin is finance and submarine is a different case. There should be regulations on absolutely everything that human physically uses, including airplanes, buses, metro, home/apartments, buildings and so on. Things like these should be very highly regulated, jobs where there is a chance that person may damage health, should be highly regulated but finances are different things. Finances are regulated in a way that they control what and how you spend, they charge you taxes and for bonus, they print money and make you pay with inflation. I don't want government to track me what I buy and when I buy. Isn't it interesting that governments don't care if you don't earn money but they will knock on your door if you generate money and won't pay taxes? Yes!

Sometimes regulation is necessary, but regulation that is too strict will also make people constrained. But compared to not having regulation, it is much better to have regulation, even if it seems like a chain of restraints. Because you can imagine how chaotic the world would be if everyone did what they wanted, without any regulations that restrained them.
The OceanGate case is one example of how an overly narcissistic and self-confident person who ignores regulations and sees himself as the right one meets his own end. Luckily he was with the group, so he was able to meet the Titanic passengers along with the other passengers.

I think obviously some of the government regulations are very important in some aspects if you see. They are not made to stop you but obviously to safeguard you. Even in cryptos etc they are made for this purpose only, because we don't have the solution to the problems that might come many governments think an outright ban could help but it doesn't eventually when our technology will grow, governments might be able to find actual solutions to these issues and then allow Cryptos in a regulated environment.

Sometimes things are not popular enough that there is a lack of eye to watch regulations enforcement. The regulation might not be clearly stated but it is inherently essential for those who participate in some sectors aware of what consequences they might give to the customers.

OceanGate recent tragedy is truly ubiquitous. What enraging is all the signs from former employees and the CEO itself are absurd, they did not ensure the safety of their own product. It is ignorance at its finest. Specifically, the fact that the submarine uses secondhand material, and is not certificated to go below the intended deepness. Though, it does not mean regulation should be swayed away as a whole, there should be someone who watches the regulators.

I'm a bit surprised at the way the OP addresses the issue, although it can be said that the current law or regulation is fair, I also agree that sometimes it is a lack of humanity, not knowing. Have you seen any lawsuits of the same nature as mine where a murderer becomes a hero being praised for his actions killing evil people with depraved behavior. The authorities have not yet intervened, in fact there are many issues that people want to promote their own interests, fairness can be promoted, but looking directly at the truth, we have not been able to get justice. That way, the cost of living will take a form that is beyond our comprehension, but I would still like to reiterate the justice that exists.

Sometimes people forget the terrible consequences that will happen for the sake of the immediate benefits, like many regulations in life, they all have a way of seeing and approaching whether it is accepting or rejecting it, it is also a how to bring balance to life. As the story you mentioned really, I find that this problem comes from small numbers, but when they have the opportunity to rise up more with money, relationships cause influence they can influence think of the majority, and the thing to do is to always spread the right things in life without pursuing personal gain.
Today I just happened to read an article about Ronald Reagan speaking about the issue of aliens that will help people to unite, although this is just a hypothesis but I also think the point is that we need to more solidarity in the world, not competition as it is now, perhaps without the appearance of aliens, we have killed each other.

The most dangerous thing is to manipulate human lives. When it comes to human safety, there must be strict rules and there is no room for complacency in safety rules in order to obtain an invention or save some money.

Of course, accidents will always happen, but this is not an excuse for not taking safety measures according to the highest standards when it comes to human life. It is a catastrophe, and those responsible for it must be severely held accountable, because if they are not severely held accountable, this failure will cause more lives to be lost in the future.

My condolences to the families of the victims who lost their lives in the accident.