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Topic: LET'S TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT BITCOIN (NO TABOOS OR IRRATIONAL DREAMS) - page 2. (Read 2807 times)

legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
but it's good for the progress, cause obligates human to EVOLVE.                     

Are you talking about the communist theory that if humans are subject to socialism for long enough, then we will evolve to the point where nobody will be greedy?

I wish humans would evolve to the point where nobody would ever use force, but I'm not going to hold my breath or subject someone to a system that they do not want to be a part of in order to achieve that.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
So what your saying is that your baseless guesses are true and anyone who knows better is a lair?
Bitcoin most certainly is a currency and was designed to be one. Parse it however you wish, but I use it to buy things because me and the seller are using it as a currency.

Mass adoption is here. I see it all over the world now when I travel. Tens of thousands of businesses use it, including some of the largest companies. and the list grows every day.

And your solutions to problems like speculation address non-problems. There are no rules for how to use bitcoin, unlike dollars these are yours and you can spend, invest, or squander them as you like. Bitcoin does not need our help. It is what it is, a currency.



legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
Still don't understand why so many people believe a deflationary currency it's better. Inflation has the danger to descontrol with bad practics like now, but it's good for the progress, cause obligates human to EVOLVE.                      

You wouldn't need so many words if you just followed the Keynesian mantra on Bitcoin:

"I like the technology of the blockchain, just not Bitcoin."

You may also want to try Freicoin. It does what you want and is a total and utter failure.
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
I don't know if it's a currency or not, but I get paid in Bitcoin and I buy things with Bitcoin.

What should I call it instead of a currency?

Private money does exist but its not useful if the majority don't use it. 

Not useful to who? The people who use it?

I use Bitcoin all the time. Are you telling me it is not useful to me?
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
Man why it's so difficult to understand!!?? I'm surprised to see all these "experts" trying to justify a BIG LIE.


Look, if you want to fight the evil central banking system and be an alternative for payments, why just don't do that?:

Create a descentralized system with unlimited coins at 1$ fixed value that ASSURES that new coins will only be created when X fiat enter, and be destroyed when are exchanged for fiat. I know it has to be very complicated because of the bureocratic fiat control. But if you want to be a REAL alternative, this is the way where investigate.

Just imagine that appears this X coin, BTC would be a simply speculation asset, as it's designed to be.

The funny point is that behind the justifications of limited supply there's the "gold convertible" economic system desire. Still don't understand why so many people believe a deflationary currency it's better. Inflation has the danger to descontrol with bad practics like now, but it's good for the progress, cause obligates human to EVOLVE.                     
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
I don't know if it's a currency or not, but I get paid in Bitcoin and I buy things with Bitcoin.

What should I call it instead of a currency?

Private money does exist but its not useful if the majority don't use it. 
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
He can state its not designed to be stable because its inelastic.  Elasticity requires the currency to be created AND destroyed.  Because theres no central bank the increase of supply is on a fixed schedule and not responding to business cycles.  That is a fact

That is not a bad argument, however it is easily countered. Adding another variable (in this case, a central bank) does not automatically make a system stable. Although the purpose of a central bank is to make the currency more stable, it is also a fact that central banks have not succeeded (for a variety of reasons) in maintaining stable currencies.

Its not possible to argue definitively whether Central Bank policies have or have not made currencies stable.  I welcome you to argue they have not succeeded.  But the mechanism is there for them to try.  Economies go from stability to instability as a natural cycle.  Without a counter cyclical mechanism in place you are at the mercy of economic forces. 



legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
Speculators are a fact of life if the asset should hold any value. We should thank traders for assisting in price discovery and providing liquidity to the exchanges so you and I can buy and sell BTC when we'd like. Wink

This is a very misguided notion, regarding to bitcoin....

How do speculators not provide price discovery and liquidity?

If you mean manipulation and dumping/pumping, then yes offcourse. Yet this is illigal in any market, except bitcoin....
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
Speculators are a fact of life if the asset should hold any value. We should thank traders for assisting in price discovery and providing liquidity to the exchanges so you and I can buy and sell BTC when we'd like. Wink

This is a very misguided notion, regarding to bitcoin....

How do speculators not provide price discovery and liquidity?
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
Speculators are a fact of life if the asset should hold any value. We should thank traders for assisting in price discovery and providing liquidity to the exchanges so you and I can buy and sell BTC when we'd like. Wink

This is a very misguided notion, regarding to bitcoin....
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Speculators are a fact of life if the asset should hold any value. We should thank traders for assisting in price discovery and providing liquidity to the exchanges so you and I can buy and sell BTC when we'd like. Wink
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
I don't know if it's a currency or not, but I get paid in Bitcoin and I buy things with Bitcoin.

What should I call it instead of a currency?
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1055
I'm not sure about bitcoin as a currency, but the blockchain technology will survive!

There are so much applications besides payment, it's a huge evolution!
legendary
Activity: 4522
Merit: 3426
He can state its not designed to be stable because its inelastic.  Elasticity requires the currency to be created AND destroyed.  Because theres no central bank the increase of supply is on a fixed schedule and not responding to business cycles.  That is a fact

That is not a bad argument, however it is easily countered. Adding another variable (in this case, a central bank) does not automatically make a system stable. Although the purpose of a central bank is to make the currency more stable, it is also a fact that central banks have not succeeded (for a variety of reasons) in maintaining stable currencies.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
Your premises are flawed. Very little of what you wrote can be substantiated by facts. You need to show some supporting evidence before you can claim that others are lying.

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But the fact is that MASS ADOPTION WILL NOT COME with actual volatility.
Like it or not, that is not a fact. Since your entire argument is based on this supposed fact, you will need to prove it before anyone can accept your conclusion.


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any currency needs a stable value to work. And bitcoin will never be able to do it, because IT'S NOT DESIGNED FOR THAT.
Your claim that "it's not designed for that" is simply not sufficient to support either statement.

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The problem is that, as a speculative asset, it's controlled mainly by speculators, whose are interested in high volatilities. This high volatility scares the mass, and without their support, bitcoin will not be a currency. I won't be able to buy oranges, computers or houses with them, because people will not accept this what they call "scam".
More unsubstantiated claims and speculation.

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The only solution would be to drive out the speculators of the market, but that's simply IMPOSSIBLE.
Is that the "only" solution to the supposed problem, or is it the only one that you can think of? Maybe a smarter person could come up with a good solution to your non-existent problem.

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the problem is BITCOIN distribution and value process, it's not designed to be a currency.
Oh, now it's a problem of distribution! The complaining about early adopters has been going on for years now and it is totally bogus.


He can state its not designed to be stable because its inelastic.  Elasticity requires the currency to be created AND destroyed.  Because theres no central bank the increase of supply is on a fixed schedule and not responding to business cycles.  That is a fact
hero member
Activity: 1470
Merit: 504
That's a natural part of every economy... Name a single economy which exists without bad actors?

BTC is still so new that it's entire life span can be viewed on a 1w chart with a clear resolution... It's too soon to start the witch trials...
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
What's also a big problem is the so called btc whales, not the investors, but the innovators. They use their Bitcoin for all sorts of twisted things, instead of just investing to get bitcoin to a higher level. It's all about greed, just like the fail of communism, the system is perfect, yet man isn't...

One day, I would like one of you Don Quixotes to actually name a "whale", and show how they used "their Bitcoin for all sorts of twisted things". I doubt it will ever happen because I doubt that these Dr. Evil's exist.


I mean the starting of mining ponzi's, btc dice sites, all ways to make more money, at the expensive of starters in bitcoin, in stead of building a community... many people who were interested, are now for ever turned of on a decentralized crypto, ones banks will launch it, bye bye decentralized...
legendary
Activity: 4522
Merit: 3426
What's also a big problem is the so called btc whales, not the investors, but the innovators. They use their Bitcoin for all sorts of twisted things, instead of just investing to get bitcoin to a higher level. It's all about greed, just like the fail of communism, the system is perfect, yet man isn't...

One day, I would like one of you Don Quixotes to actually name a "whale", and show how they used "their Bitcoin for all sorts of twisted things". I doubt it will ever happen because I doubt that these Dr. Evil's exist.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
You're looking at such a narrow field of view that it's impossible to make an informed decision.

Look at the reasons behind the volatility, it's not as simple as "speculators." When mining switched from CPU only to GPU, and then ASIC, it opened up a door for massive ROI in fewer hands. This peaked interest, and encouraged speculation.

Now the mining bubble is collapsing, and mining will become more decentralized again. Unless something else comes along to give a grossly disproportionate hashrate, the market will have no choice but to calm down...

This was more of a Bitcoin "gold rush" than anything, and the type of speculation we witnessed would occur with just about any other asset on the open market when people get that gold rush mentality...

The big problem in my view is the still tech know-how you absoletely need to ave if you want to do anything with bitcoin. Bitcoin needs the killer ap, to which people without tech interest can simply tranfer money to whoever they like, just like a banking app.

What's also a big problem is the so called btc whales, not the investors, but the innovators. They use their Bitcoin for all sorts of twisted things, instead of just investing to get bitcoin to a higher level. It's all about greed, just like the fail of communism, the system is perfect, yet man isn't...
newbie
Activity: 41
Merit: 0
The currency design itself seems honest. The people running early services less so. I guess we're in a process of learning how much we need humans to trust each other - or not - in this century.
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